[2020] Updated Leagues II - Trailblazer: Clue Scroll Changes

Originally posted by ProfessorDaen

Even with this change being fairer than the previous one, as someone who took Treasure Seeker I feel as though I 100% would have chosen Unnatural Selection instead knowing this was coming.

The fundamental problem here is that Unnatural Selection's guaranteed clue drop from superiors makes any generic clue improvements better for it than for Treasure Seeker, due to it having other non-clue benefits. Balancing these relics against each other is going to be almost impossible without actually changing the relics, for this reason.

In general I think this suggestion is better, but it still fails to solve the following problems:

• Getting clue steps you can't run just feels...bad regardless of whether you're able to make progress otherwise
• Master clues are still unrealistic to complete, especially relative to the tasks that apply to them
• This change still disproportionately buffs Unnatural Selection, which is already the stronger relic. One of Treasure Seeker's strongest relative benefits is that it makes juggling dramatically easier; removing the need to juggle, while good for gameplay, further extends US' lead over TS.

Personally, I believe the best change overall, if modifying the relics is off the table, would be to give players both T4 relics and region lock clue steps as per the first suggestion. This has the following benefits:

• Removes the imbalance between Treasure Seeker and Unnatural Selection
• Allows players to engage with both slayer and clues without significant FOMO in either direction
• Removes the frustration of needing to drop impossible clues
• Allows Master clues to be much more reasonably completed

Originally posted by HiddenGhost1234

The game auto juggling clues for you?

Now that should have been how it was from the start.

I think that's a nice middle ground. Let's natural selection still give you clues while letting treasure hunter still help out.

People were having so much fun with clues last league. Hopefully this change will help to recreate that fun.

Originally posted by mamberu

Thing is though, I wouldn't have picked clue relic if we didn't need to juggle. The only thing clue relic currently has going for it is an easier time juggling, reducing a couple steps, and not having to leave to do a clue every 20 kills.

Take away the need for juggling and suddenly the amount of steps needed per clue doesn't matter much as it's just a couple more kills for your next clue, leaving clue relics with only getting the benefit of not needing to pause what they're doing every time they get a clue.

Originally posted by The_Void_Reaver

I understand why you don't want to make changes to how the relics work but I think this change would be best if it did what is currenlty being suggested while also taking clues off(or make 1/35 or 1/50) the guaranteed drop table from superiors. While there's still a clear advantage to being able to stack clues and work through them all at once it seems like superiors give too much access to clues when the other relic is wholly dedicated to collecting and opening clues.

It's nice that I don't have to juggle clues anymore but neither do the US players while getting massive advantages relating to what is basically the central skill in the game.

I will happily accept these changes because they're much better at advantaging the Clue Hunter players compared to the previous ones. I don't think clues should be so easily attainable for players who have clearly decided not to focus on clues.

Edit: One idea I had for improving a clue relic while not taking any power from the Slayer one would be to give players who take the clue relic what I'll call Clue Hunter Clothing. Clue Hunter gear would effectively serve as a stand in for any emote clothing item that you'd normally get from a clue scroll you'd need to wear for a clue completion. Players would still have to get the various items that can be obtained from places not clue related but things like Rune Heraldic Helms or Flared Trousers could be bypassed by using Clue Hunter. It would give clue hunters a distinct advantage and massively increased access to Elite and Master Clues early on while not making it 100% necessary to use the Relic to complete them. I would still like a reduced rate of clue drops from superiors if this were an idea that was considered but think that it would be a good middle ground to give Clue Hunters.

Yall really f**king jumping down my throat for a f**king opinion.

Originally posted by multip

First of all, thanks a ton for listening to the minority of players who are TS pickers like myself, rather than just going with the "Utilitarian" argument and buffing clues because fully complete-able clues would be fun for the most people. This new proposal does a lot to help, specifically by making the decreased number of steps from TS actually meaningful in the ability to complete clues. I would not be upset if this proposal went live as opposed to the previous one which I was quite upset about. This solution also avoids punishing those who chose region based on clue completion rates (not me, but I know many did) which I think is great.

That being said, I still would have picked US with this new proposal. This is because it shifts the balance between the slayer QoL improvements from US and the sheer point value of TS. Before, I basically thought "Wow, it would be nice to pick slayer tasks and get more superiors, but so many points are locked behind clues. Seems like the only way to get most of those is juggling. I can't imagine doing that with the slayer relic, so I guess I'll pick clues since I want the points and the possibility of getting cool uniques." This changes that balance of QoL vs point/item attainability enough that I think it would have shifted my decision the other way.

Originally posted by snowflakesplz

I chose Treasure Seeker because and only because I saw that a huge number of points were essentially only completable with that relic as it would be far too difficult to complete hard/elite/master clues with Unnatural Selection. Unnatural Selection seems like the clearly more fun relic and is still very powerful but I chose TS thinking about points long term. Now US will be the obviously more fun relic, very powerful, and gets thousands of more points unlocked that were TS only while TS is a minor clue scroll convenience relic.

This change negates the sole reason I and many others took the relic and in this thread you're hearing from the majority with Unnatural Selection being happy with the idea of thousands of points suddenly becoming available to them but for the minority of us who chose TS this is a massive nerf while adding a relatively minor quality of life for us (in my opinion).

While not explicitly changing the relics themselves this has the same effect as it changes the core of the reason I and others chose our relic and makes me feel really bad about that choice.

Originally posted by Cat_Marshal

If you are US you only get one clue at a time still, so you could juggle in order to complete a slayer task before going to do the clues. That is the only thing I can think of. If you picked last recall, this is hardly an issue though.