IMO these are good changes but 6 minutes for full energy at 1 agi is still bad for the noobs, and at the high end it may devalue PVM (although this remains to be seen)
Why hasn't the team considered a simple solution like ramping run regen the longer you didn't run? This would make the earlygame feel a lot less bad, you will still have to walk but the longer you walk the faster your regen. It doesn't affect activities where you run 24/7 like herbiboar and still makes you want use stams there, and only affects very little instances of PVM. I say this because i feel like people are still not gonna be happy with 6 minutes of regen at low agi lvls.
The team's considered a bunch of solutions and still have more to pull from if this is still way off! This one just happened to be from a suggestion that gained some traction, rejigged a few numbers here and there and have playtested internally, now just seeking validation or feedback from the wider playerbase to see what else needs changing!
Obviously the theme is running, but we're in no rush to push out blanket changes to such a core system, we'll keep iterating if we need to!
if this goes well are we still looking at removing the 30% regen rate from graceful, giving % chance to get more marks of grace with the set worn and set effect to not fail agility obstacles? (from the wording i think that means just rooftop courses and not all things like mep1/tripwires?)
Plan with this iteration is for Graceful to keep doing what it does and double down on these changes, but if people mess with it in the Beta and feel that it's a little 'meh' then we'll absolutely look back at those other suggestions for the kit. We saw a decent bit of feedback last time around that Graceful felt like it had lost its existing identity a little so we've stripped back those changes for the time being!
I am unable to log into the beta worlds, client keeps crashing. Using Runelite, will try official client
Encountering the same, team are looking into why this might be!
Can we not care about run energy as skill expression lol. Just reading that sentence made me cringe.
We care a little but not that much. Post-54 Agility it's just a buff across the board in any case, but not to an insane degree where you remove layers for improvement at stuff like CoX (to save invent space) or GWD (to extend trip length). We still want Stams to have some function since they're the only monetary output from 'conventional' Agility outside of Sepulchre, but not to the degree that our initial set of changes were perhaps overly punishing to players who weren't walking.
Still nothing off the table in terms of what can be changed, but we really want to see players get hands-on with these ones first!
I'm happy with all the numbers at a glance, we'll see how it feels to play but nothing about the regen formulas you present sounds like it would have issues.
I'm sceptical of unchanging Graceful though. Weight being slightly tuned up makes me wonder if Graceful is going to prove even more valuable and, while i know this isn't what the rebalance was for, was hoping we could have recovered some ground on the damage Graceful did to Fashionscape. I was an advocate of Graceful's effect being that it increases your maximum run above 100, 5 for each piece. Then the Ring of Endurance could give even more. Make it for long distance and convenience rather than being defacto couriers outfit.
Regardless. Super excited to see the effort being put in :)
Increasing your max run energy is a neat suggestion for it, definitely one for us to keep in mind!
I'd like to also see a graph with fraction of time spend walking versus running, for different weights and agility levels. Drain and restore rates are nice, but do not actually show how much of the time we can run.
We had similar ratios as part of our design for the first set of changes, but it didn't feel like they were particularly useful since it's not super reflective of how players actually interact with those systems. Will see if something like this can be spun up if more people want to see similar!
I welcome all improvements to run energy, I'm curious if the team considered making it so that energy only drained during combat?
We've for sure considered differences between in- and out-of combat, but want to try and avoid behaviour changing (particularly to avoid confusion for new players) and also want to make sure that Agility levels still have a value proposition outside of PvM and the occasional shortcut.
Maybe I'm losing my mind but at 99 agility with the new formula we get 1.3 * (99/3) + 15 = 57.9, not the ~47.5 shown in the chart.
Edit: Nevermind
Good spot, that's included in error from an older version of the blog. Have added a note to the top, but that 1.3 shouldn't have been there - apologies! The graphs are still accurate to the formulae being used on the beta worlds though.
This look really good on paper! Can we please have this immediately added to the main game?
Give it a go on the beta worlds first, might feel a bit extreme to just whack it out across the entire game!
No worries, still a significant increase, though current graceful would have been even stronger on top of adding the 30% at the baseline. I understand that is still in discussion though!
Graceful's being left alone in this iteration mind you, so that boost is still there if you're wearing the outfit itself for stuff like Herbiboar!
I know it's not exactly the thread for it, Goblin, but any update on this month's gazette?
Should be dropping tomorrow! It was looking a little bare so we've been getting some write-ups from the team to flesh it out a little!
Yes, let me teleport out of the underground pass mid-quest to walk with 0 run energy to a pub in lumbridge to regen and then go all the way back.........
Think this suggestion ties more into the early-game and the areas around Misthalin, as an added boost for new players on top of what's already being done. Not sure the intent was to teleport out to a pub and run back!
I really think a big thorn for me is the fact that we are trying to make agility insanely strong while still having it be a horrible skill to train. It doesn't help the new player experience to tell them "yea don't worry about anything else until you click in a circle for 400 hours, otherwise you're waisting run energy or stams"
Would advise you don't tell new players that in the first place! On a more real note, think Agility could absolutely use some more fun stuff early on, but the changes to Brimhaven as part of Project Rebalance make that a super appealing option at a lower level range now. I'd argue that Agility is already insanely strong in the current Run Energy system, but takes way longer for you to feel the differences due to a more harsh initial formula and longer periods between breakpoints. Curious for your thoughts!
When you shift click to walk, your character now visually runs the last tile, what's the deal with that? it's a bit offputting in some situations
Team should be aware of this, will raise it again, suspect it's likely an engine thing!
Wherever you guys go back to the drawing board, you sec to hit it out of the park. This sounds so much more like what people expected and asked for
This makes me hopeful for the prayer revisit wink-wink nudge-nudge
Not quite the drawing board, it was a player suggestion that already did pretty well! Shoutout u/Cheesey_Chicken!
Problem is the new players are not gonna give you any feedback. They won’t join the beta worlds, make Reddit posts or vote on polls. Instead they’ll log in to the game, get pissed at all the walking around and just close the game. Recently I’ve been watching a YouTube series of a new player tryin to complete the f2p quests unguided. He appears to be having fun with the quests themselves but is constantly frustrated with having to walk around and waiting for energy regen. I imagine if he wasn’t making videos for cash, he’d have quit ages ago.
100%, we did a lot of our own testing at 1 Agility doing stuff like Cook's Assistant, or the run to Drezel and back to the bank for Priest in Peril etc. because we're cognizant of the fact that we'll likely not hear much from those players!
On the subject of early game and making it feel less sluggish. The current proposal makes it so that carrying more at lower agility levels is a lot more punishing. This is when players who are new to the game will be wandering around with random stuff in their inventory like pieces of armor, ores, logs, etc.... would it be worth adding an npc or two in the earlier courses who explain in basic how the run energy and weight system work?
Think this is partly why we're keen on feedback! Would be keen to challenge 'a lot more punishing', at 1 Agility and at max weight, your drain is 14.9% higher but your regen is almost doubled. It's not common to hit 64kg in those super early setups, so we felt in our testing that it more than balanced out when stopping to chat to NPCs for quests or kill a chicken etc. etc.
That said, think there's for sure scope to find a useful place to pop this info in-game somewhere, it's a pretty esoteric system as it currently stands!
Think the biggest pain point with run energy is by far early game questing and exploring for new players. Regen is so slow right now it seems impossible to make it fair/fun just by tinkering with the formula. Personally think solution like the musicians in RS2 where you could rest at certain early game locations and regen very very quickly would be best for new players and also wouldn't affect later game players at all.
Yeah we absolutely have resting in the back pocket, but think in some ways it makes stuff feel even more 'stop-start'. Even if you're walking you get a chance to take in the scenery and get your bearings a little, resting at pre-defined spots is something we're a little on the fence about but not wholly opposed to!
A quick test on the dreaded run to PNM in my setup with no stam was a 15 second time save AND I have enough run energy regenerated to get right into the content right away
While it wasnt infinite run, it certainly wasn’t a TP out angle to go get a stam like it is on the main game. It felt more like a minor inconvenience then a thumbs down log out play. That was lvl 80 agi and 45 kg weight.
What about no weight? I got legs for days dam! GE to fally pub like a Friday arvo IRL, no breaks on the beer train, even enough energy left to get a little rowdy!
Graceful + stam mean you never stop running (you regen your stam on all the little stops you have!). This could be seen as a little over tuned but it pretty much hits that “run energy only depletes in of combat”
The changes in the beta fell quite healthy for early, mid and late game accounts, I still feel there could be some potential to add some more ways to fully replenish run energy for new accounts, a bear at the pub for 10 coins eh?
Love this context! Cheers for leaving such a detailed reply!
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