Since i saw some posts about it in the community, what're your thoughts on introducing 2-3 initial prayers and having a 3rd-4th prayer come from a boss type monster once you've unlocked the alignment? (Eg get 2-3 balance prayers when finishing while guthix sleeps, then unlock the final one by killing tormented demons, could be a tradable or untradable drop)
Edit: to go more off of this, that way you could even focus on adding lower req prayers and then hone in and craft a great extra reward prayer.
I don't think we're against that idea, but for now we are just going to focus on the initial Prayers and how they work with the game and current gameplay of Prayers.
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It's not cancelled, we saw a significant amounf of feedback from across all different platforms and we're going to look at our designs with that in mind as it was very valid, constructive feedback.
Okay, I'll say it. You guys should've just released Ruinous Powers with DT2. Now you're just spinning your wheels because the same people who didn't want Ruinous Powers will NEVER want God Alignments.
I think this is slightly different than the OG Ruinous Powers and we've already taken the learnings from that to get here. We're going to continue to lean on the feedback of the community to ensure we get it right, rather than because we can.
Understood, is there any sort of gameplan for how the new prayers will be reworked? (Eg: making them unique buffs similar to smite or retribution rather than just dmg % increases)
I don't want to go into any specifics as that wouldn't be fair to the devs working on the changes or to you as we want to make sure they have the time to review the feedback seen and adjust them accordingly.
I’m not sure dropping down to 3 prayers per alignment is necessarily the answer, we just don’t want to have an extra layer of prayer flicks and convoluted prayers released. If removing one helps with that then fair enough though
I agree it's not 'the answer' but I think it will help make sure the Prayers have clear impact that sits alongside the current system without overloading you with too many new things at once. Information overload is a genuine concern, something we need to balance.
I think you guys are handling these changes with the care they deserve. Just from reddit alone, you had people saying the suggested new prayers would have next to no impact, to others calling this the next EoC. Striking balance here is very difficult, and I think splitting up the pitches and reducing the new prayers by 1 per god will make this much simpler for the community to digest and correctly understand their impacts.
Agreed, I said so in another comment, but information overload is a geunine concern and something that we need to be more aware of.
Will need a really solid beta period before anything like this passes realistically
I want to make sure there is a solid Beta period for this, hence why we've said if we need to push these until after WGS launches then we're open to that level of flexibility.
I wonder how much of it is actually 'its too complicated/there's information overload' because of the way the system actually works, and how much is simply how overly verbose the prayer's tooltip is. For example, we look at current Redemption, and it just says 'Heals you when damaged and health falls below 10%.'
The pitched Seren prayer Harmonize, which rewards players hitting together on the same tick, says stuff about applying a whole new status effect, and while that may be the way 'under the hood' to get the game to behave and actually apply that prayer's effect, us players are going to immediately think of other MMOs where maintaining a status effect is an active part of the gameplay. So instead, wording it as something more like:
- + X% Attack when your attack lands at the same time as an ally
It's simple, to the point, we don't need to know about the existence of 'Vulnerability' as a status, we just need to know 'if we hit at the same time as each other, we are more accurate'. IDK that's my 2p
ps: While I'm writing a post about Prayers, a thought I've had for a while is about something like Cruor's, where the prayer point drain only occurs upon the effect triggering, which I think is cool for design space. However, I was wondering how it'd interact with Prayer Bonus, if at all? Would it just ignore it and do a flat drain rate? Because I think it could be cool to have Prayer Bonus affect those prayers in the vein of 'you have a X% chance to save some/all of the prayer drain cost', so that it still extends your prayer duration in some form. But, this (IMO) opens up the door to have the inverse available, where you could have new gear with negative prayer bonus, which forces the proc to happen more often (at the cost of draining your prayer faster), so you could 'force' the Cruor healing to happen more often, if you're willing to drink more Prayer Potions. As it stands, we have like 2 items that have negative Prayer Bonus, and I feel it is a bit of an unexplored design space. Another 2p to consider perhaps?
I think your 2p are spot on mate. We're looking into ways of rewording things and ditching the "keywords."
I do worry that if we go as vague as redemption, people may complain. And for decent reason, arguably redemption is obtuse and players should not need the wiki to know exactly how it works. I don't personally find the relationship with the wiki harmful, but I do see the point.
If we do that for these prayers, it might exacerbate those existing concerns. That said, your fundamental point about Harmony (and strike balance by extent) is spot on.
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