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Here are the 2 cents of one Dragon Tier player. Feel free to disagree, I don't expect people to agree on my views too much.

EDIT: I am most grateful to you kind strangers, who awarded me with gold. Really warms my heart :)

TL;DR

-Zeah feels like a real part of OSRS world after TL

-Concept of Leagues fits well to osrs and TL was a success, considering OSRS team went in blind

-TL had issues with "time" and pacing in multiple ways

-Luck shouldn't be rewarded in a game mode that has competitive aspects, effects of bad luck should be looked at

-Relics system was fun and good, but has room for improvements

-The percentile-based ranking system caused burnouts and stress, it made the game less enjoyable

PROS:

1. In my OSRS world view, Zeah belongs to OSRS now

TL was a proper introduction to Zeah that I didn't even realize I wanted.

We've had Zeah for years now but to me, it never felt like a "real" OSRS place. It was just an addition that didn't feel like it belonged to OSRS. We all know how tedious it was to navigate around Zeah on the release, how tedious it was to get house favour and how square the whole place was.

There has been nice additions and fixes to Zeah among the years, but to be honest there were only a handful of reasons to go to Zeah as a high leveled player. Whenever I went there, I just teleported to the spot I wanted to use, and then left. I had zero interest in walking around the continent. If something on Zeah offered good xp/rewards, I'd go to that exact place every once in a while, but I never "felt home" on the continent.

However, TL gave me an adventure on Zeah. Suddenly I had a reason to look for Willow trees there, figure out good combat training spots, look for item spawns, unlock traveling methods and just roam around. By playing TL, I got to explore new areas like back in the day when I first bought membership. I had a REASON to look around and go on an adventure.

2. The Concept of Leagues as a diversion

The OSRS team wanted to offer an unique OSRS experience that breaks the regular gameplay "meta" we all have familiarized ourselves with. In my opinion, they succeeded really well, considering this was their first attempt at non-PvP seasonal servers. There were so many things that could've backfired, yet the game felt surprisingly balanced. According to my experience with TL, there wasn't one "right way" to play or some extremely broken mechanic/relic that could be abused.

TL offered fresh gameplay experience, which broke my boredom with the main game really well. It was "twisted" enough, but it didn't turn the game into absurdity.

It was something new and exciting. With some tweaks, League servers might have a long life ahead.

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CONS AND CHANCES FOR IMPROVEMENT:

1. Time, Part I

The one thing that really hindered the TL experience for me was Time, on a couple of levels.

First of all, 2 months felt a bit too long time period for a seasonal server. In the beginning it was very exciting, but for me the honey moon was over in a month or so.

POTENTIAL FIX: Shorter leagues in the future

EDIT AFTER READING SOME COMMENTS: There seems to be varying opinions about ideal lengths. Shorter leagues could mean even more hardcore competition. Hopefully OSRS Team gathers information regarding this, via a poll or something like that.

2. Time, Part II

Another issue with time was the fact that it put players in very unfair positions, when it comes to competing against others. I was unemployed for 1,5 months of TL, which allowed me to no-life the game. On average, I played for 6,5 hours every single day. Had I had a regular 9 to 5 job, I would've had 9 hours and 15 minutes to spare daily, which would've included sleeping. I was at a huge advantage compared to anyone who had to work for the whole duration of the league. Players couldn't compensate the "lost time" with being actually good at the game, because having time to AFK train allowed players like me to reap huge XP point rewards.

POTENTIAL FIXES (THAT ARE NOT PERFECT AND STILL HAVE THEIR OWN ISSUES): Daily XP caps, Daily point caps or a point system that heavily rewards players for doing activities that require skill, instead of the amount of free time they have in their hands. Maybe the top tiers could have some "required tasks", so that one couldn't be on the very top of the ladder unless they complete some activities that require effort and skill?

3. Luck-based rewards and advancement on the game mode

RNG is a part of this game. However, when it comes to game mode that has competitive aspects, it should be addressed.

My biggest issue with luck in TL were the Master Tier tasks that rewarded players with huge point rewards for simply being lucky. It makes no sense to give someone 500 points for getting a pet. Two players could be doing the same thing, and one simply wins the RNG lottery and gains a large amount of points. That's simply unfair. Just look at the bottom half of players in dragon tier and in high rune tier. The point differences were very small in the end, I can't help but feel sorry for the players who could've made it into the dragon tier, if only they had the luck that some dragon tier players had. Some of the rune tier players might have played the game wiser and invested more in the game, but didn't make it simply because they had bad luck. As for myself, I got lucky with a very early Golden Tench. Sure, it felt nice to get those 500 points, but in the larger picture I feel like I didn't deserve them.

Another lesser issue I had with luck were the regular drops from monsters/clue scrolls. I had insane luck and got a Dragon Sword from a Wyrm within my first 100 kills. This sped up my melee training by a large amount, allowing me to save hours compared to players who went straight to whip from Rune Scim. Again, my drop was not deserved in any way, I just got lucky and gained an advantage. On the other end, having an extremely long dry streak at getting key drops might destroy player's chances of getting to the top, even if they deserved it by their commitment to the game.

POSSIBLE FIXES: Much lesser rewards for super rare drops & Guaranteed drops for key items at certain amount of kills, like Vorkath's head.

EDIT AFTER READING SOME COMMENTS: Instead of having guaranteed drops, accelerated droprates could also be a viable solution.

4. Relics

For the most part, relics turned out to be surprisingly balanced IMO, considering how much they altered the game.

However, my biggest issues with the relics were the small amount of them and the severity of their buffs. Once I had chosen a relic, I had to commit into taking the advantage of it.

Unlocking Relics was very fun, I really hope there were more of them. I would've also liked to have an option to turn certain relics off, since they turned out to be more of a hinderance/annoyance than a desired perk (looking at you, Hardcore Harvester). However, it can be argued that having downsides is a part of the relic system, I'm not claiming to be right here, just a personal preference.

POSSIBLE FIXES: More relics more often, but with lesser buffs. Ability to turn off a chosen relic.

5. The percentile based Tiers, burnout and stress

THIS IS COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE POINT, OTHER PLAYERS MIGHT HAVE FELT VERY DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THE SITUATION. MY ARGUMENTS ARE BASED ON MY OWN FEELINGS, NOT ON ANY THINGS THAT I'D CONSIDER "OBJECTIVE TRUTHS".

The last few weeks of TL were pretty awful experience for me. The competition at the top was really rough. I did well in the beginning, and after a month I was well within the dragon tier.

When I started to get less intrested in the game, I thought of quitting. However, I had already put in a couple hundred hours into the game mode and felt like my effort would go to waste if I stopped playing. Especially since the rewards were the first discontinued items in the history of OSRS.

So I continued on playing. I got points, but I couldn't feel satisfaction with my achievements. The constant fear of dropping behind if I took too many day-offs was extremely unsettling. At no point I had a guarantee that I had done enough. I didn't really like playing anymore, the league started to feel like a chore.

Why did I keep on playing, then? Because I had invested time in the game and I didn't want to feel like I wasted those hours. The last weeks were not about having fun, they were about raw calculation of which tasks would get me the most points, compared to the time they took to complete. I did tasks that I considered to be most optimal, given my chosen relics. I must've returned like 2k library books because it gave me 3m Magic XP/h, even though it was tedious.

The exahustion was heavily tied to the time issues with the league. I had to play constantly, because that was the way to keep up with the pace. I would've been okay with dropping to lower tiers, if there were certain "skill walls" I knew I wouldn't be able to break through, like required completion of at least one CM CoX run or something like that.

When the league was finally over, I felt relieved. Not proud, not satisfied, just relieved.

The percentile based tier system has the obvious advantage of balancing out the game "automatically", when the comparison is done between the players.

After my TL experience, I'd still prefer the tiers to be set in stone, like relic unlocks and buyable rewards. This could ease the the constant stress and fear of losing out, and make players feel more satisfied when they get point rewards. The players would know what they have to do, and setting goals would be more straightforward.

POSSIBLE FIX: I kinda stated this above, but I'd much rather have some other system to rank players in tiers than the percentile system. If the percentile-based system will be used in the future, I highly doubt I'll aim for the top or pay that much attention to leagues again. Then again, maybe the competitive side of TL just wasn't for me in the 1st place.

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almost 5 years ago - /u/JagexHusky - Direct link

Thanks for writing this up, it was a very interesting read.

A lot of the team have raised similar points to some of these in our discussions about what went well for Twisted League and what would we like to improve for the next one and its nice to see a lot of validation in your post and in the comments that we are mostly in agreement.

Pros:

  1. I absolutely agree, Zeah was a fantastic choice for the first league and it really brought to attention to a lot of our players that there is a lot more going on there than just the catacombs, raids and blood/soul runecrafting.

  2. Not much to say other than I agree, it's the reason why TL was such a success.

Cons:

  1. The length of the league is going to be something we discuss on a league to league basis, 2 months felt about right because Zeah has so much content and it takes a while to get "raids-ready" which is the clear end-game for Zeah also if it is only a 1 month league it runs into a potential problem of that being a bad month for a player to play due to real-life commitments, 2 months at least is slightly better at giving someone a chance to participate. Although I do think we could've done things differently to avoid 2 months feeling too long which I'll address in point 4 about relics.

  2. I don't think we want to have a very harsh system as far as point caps. A lot of players like to go hard at something for the first 2 weeks and we wouldn't want to stop that, especially streamers who want to stream as much of the hype content as they can on release. We are exploring and discussing the idea of a very large cap on either daily/weekly playtime, i.e. limit of 16 hours per day but that is mostly to try and mitigate accounts who are playing for unhealthy amounts of time.

  3. Absolutely agree on the pet/tench tasks, having a very low droprate doesn't mean it should be a master task although I would still like to feel exciting getting the point boost associated with a pet, for this league Elite tasks would've accomplished the same thing. Also with regards to uniques, I feel like there should have been way more of them to mitigate getting unlucky on one item. For example, we could've had Whip, Cudgel, Bottomless Bucket or even simply a Rune scim. Also, we spoke about it before the League and decided not to increase the droprate of uniques but I believe we have a strong case for actually making it easier to get those uniques to keep the league feeling exciting in future ones. Whether that's through bad luck prevention or through reducing the droprates I'm not sure yet but it is definitely on the table for discussion.

  4. I was ok with the power level of most of the relics generally, some individual relics were too strong or too weak. I believe that in hindsight we should've had more relics to make the league feel like it had a larger amount of gameplay. When you look at it we realistically had 2-3 weeks of gameplay with 5 relics in 5k points yet we ran the season for 2 months. If we had 7 relics in 20k points (so a 10k relic and a 20k relic) that would've done a lot to reduce the burnout of players being left to long and tedious goals of just doing the same tasks repeatedly for points. And on the note of tasks, we definitely want to reduce the tasks which just increase in number and have more unique challenges. For example, instead of counting to 2500 Hydra we could stop at 1000 and have tasks like: "Kill the Alchemical Hydra 5,15,25 times without leaving it's room." or "Kill the Alchemical Hydra in less than 3,2.5,2,1.5 minutes etc." That way you have interesting challenges to set yourself while you're going for the KC tasks. Or for clues, instead of counting the number of clues what if the tasks were "Equip a full god dhide set" "Equip a full god rune set" "Equip a full Wizard(g) set" etc. Those tasks would make opening each individual clue more exciting instead of just spam clicking through caskets to hit a milestone.

  5. I actually disagree with this one, I think the percentile system worked out pretty well but we may need more Leagues to find out if that was the problem. I personally believe that it was the higher end tasks which failed and made players like yourself who were chasing ranks feel burned out. Instead of having fun challenges for 2 months the most lucrative tasks were getting to 25m/50m in the skills you picked at T3 relics using the same training methods you have done for the last 20 hours. We want to avoid that going into future leagues.

Just my 2 cents on the matter... which turned into a mini-essay. Whoops. Regardless, any and all feedback is appreciated and the team still have much to discuss about what we are doing for the next league.

almost 5 years ago - /u/JagexHusky - Direct link

Originally posted by LordGozer2

I believe that in hindsight we should've had more relics to make the league feel like it had a larger amount of gameplay.

Instead of inventing new relics at a very high point threshold that only a tiny minority would ever reach, what about letting you get a 2nd choice of the existing relics once you've "completed" round 1?

Say the last tier relic choice is unlocked after 5k points. Then at 10k points you get a 2nd choice at tier 1 relics, 2nd t2 relic at 15k points, t3 at 25k, t4 at 40k and so on. This way you'll automatically unlock new relics for the whole league duration without having to spend dev time on even more relics where the unlocks just stops at another arbitrarily set point threshold.

I really do believe that will take away from the impact of the choice which the player made. Ideally we want there to be a more even split between the relics than there was in this league and we want people to be proud of their choice.

If everyone has everything then no-one will feel special if that makes sense?

almost 5 years ago - /u/JagexHusky - Direct link

Originally posted by zuidd

if it is only a 1 month league it runs into a potential problem of that being a bad month for a player to play due to real-life commitments

This is important for the competition tbh. This may be very personal, but if leagues were 1 month I wouldn't have been able to catch up as I did most of it during the winter breaks.

If we had 7 relics in 20k points (so a 10k relic and a 20k relic) that would've done a lot

Do note that only ~1250 people ended up having 20k points after 2 months of league. Hell "only" 6500 players ended with 10k points. Be aware that making the 20k relic too powerful would possibly widen the gap too much discouraging competition for people "stuck" under the 20k points. I agree we should have more relics but 20k is kind of much. I would be fine with 10k but I think even that is perhaps questionable.

Yeah I understand that but just the presence of a 10k relic would make getting a 20k relic easier depending on how powerful it is.

I think the reason only 1250 people got 20k points in the first place was because a good number of players burned out after the first 3-5 weeks, if we had more relics and reasons to push just a little bit more for points then we likely would've seen more than double the amount of people at 20k points

almost 5 years ago - /u/JagexHusky - Direct link

Originally posted by anticommon

The one thing I would like to add to all this is that there should not be relics that make you chose between fun gamePLAY or efficient points (ie xp relics).

To make the xp go by faster still though, I think that they should be built into the relic tiers. Ie. Tier one grants you the base 5x xp, tier 2 adds 2x (total 7x) tier tree adds 3x for 10x total etc.

Relics that change gameplay like harvester and clue hunter and focus etc. Are all great because they let you play the game differently rather than just gain xp faster.

Yeah we have been thinking the same. The xp multiplier could steadily increase every other relic and then we strip the relics down to just cool game changing effects