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The whole point on the rework was to move the bosses because they don't want you safe spotting them. But it's going to be really f**king lame if they don't change the boss stats or mechanics. These bosses are way too tanky. You have to safe spot them to feel like they are even worthwhile
The Single combat variants of the bosses have MUCH lower stats than the ones you can go and fight today, and they're also lot lower than the soon to be Multi-way combat ones too.
The experience will be completely different from how it is currently.
Yo for real im so annoyed at this. Piece of shit liars. Whats the point in using the poll system when they just change the shit after it passes
I can understand your frustration towards it not being Single vs Single-plus, but just to be clear we never polled the actual rework element of the update, only the rewards.
Originally we were just going with the updated Multi-way combat variants, but we felt like it'd be better if we also included much easier (and safer) versions to kill for those who didn't want to enter multi.
While I agree fully that we could have better highlighted the boss rework designs were subject to change, we had never fully settled on a final design at the point of the reward blog. We intentionally used non-committal language, as we knew changes would be likely based on how our own internal testing went (much like every other content release we do).
Hopefully with these much more toned-down Single combat variants being easier to kill, the inclusion of Single-way combat won't be too much of an impact on how viable it will be to escape another player.
Hey all, I've had a bunch of meetings this afternoon so not had a chance to respond properly. I've looked over a lot of what's been said and just wanted to try and perhaps provide some additional context or refresh memories on where the team are at with the Wilderness Boss Rework so far.
Firstly, for those not in the know: the aim of the Wilderness Boss Rework has been to rework the current Wilderness bosses (Vet'ion, Callisto and Venenatis) to get them into a state where they're better designed than 'get into safespot, left click, wait for ages because their Defence is insane'. To that end, we've given them new statlines, new mechanics and some new environments. We've also given them some new rewards, voted for by all of you.
During concepting stages, we figured that even though the existing bosses aren't exactly functioning at the same standard as a lot of modern OSRS content, a lot of players have gotten used to treating them as solo encounters. As part of the original design blog, we decided to take some inspiration from the Chaos Fanatic (who provides a lower-risk, albeit worse, means of obtaining the Chaos Ele pet) and offer some variations on the bosses that would still satisfy players looking to feasibly take on these new bosses. The rework is much more than just taking the already existing bosses and putting them in a cave!
These solo-able bosses (Artio (bear), Calvarion (skeleton) and Spindel (spider)) hit less hard and can be killed much quicker than Callisto, Vet'ion and Venenatis. In the design blog, we used the term 'single-way' combat to describe these encounters.
As we've entered balancing/tweaking for these bosses, we found that 'true' singles mechanics reduced the sense of danger associated with them, since a would-be PKer could drop into the lair, then stare at you begrudgingly. Instead we opted to adjust these lairs to singles-plus, meaning you're still able to teleport out (since they're all found below level 30 Wilderness) but not able to remain in combat with the boss for extended periods of time while making up your mind.
Some players feel as though this will lead to them frequently abandoning kills. Without giving too much away I'd like to say that the time-to-kill for these boss variants is significantly quicker than the currently existing Wilderness boss mechanics. Even if you're frequently bumping into PKers, we'd expect you still comfortably secure more kills per hour than currently. You're expected to 'do' more in the fight, but they're also doable with a much wider range of gear since their Defence stats aren't in the same leagues as the current Vet'ion, Venenatis and Callisto.
With these new bosses no longer being the sole gatekeepers of the Dragon Pickaxe (thanks to the Kalphite Queen and Volcanic Mine), plus offering up rewards specifically targeted towards engaging with risky Wilderness and PvP content - we want to make sure they're delivering on the fantasy of the Wilderness, without feeling like required content for people just chasing a skilling upgrade.
All that said, I've seen a handful of comments about true singles but blocking teleports inside their lairs, singles-plus but preventing world-hopping inside the lair or singles-plus where you're still able to finish off your kill if you're up to the task while tanking a PKer. I'll look to raise all of these with the team and see if the design could be refined further in a way that addresses some of your concerns without diminishing the risk for those choosing to seek out boosts and flexes for their Wilderness antics.If you've read this far, cheers!
I want to say a huge thanks to everybody who's taken the time to leave feedback so far, even if the WBR wasn't the main focus of this week's update. I'll be reading your thoughts below and sharing them with the team, so if you've got any extra questions or things to add then drop it here!
Additionally just want to reiterate that post-release we'll be keeping an extremely close eye on feedback and interactions, if it's clear that something just really isn't healthy then we'll of course be open to adjusting further as needed.
Edit: formatting nightmares, hopefully resolved!
The singles + as proposed is just the current garbage Venenatis experience which incentivises instant tping and abandoning boss kills. It's dogshit for all parties.
Solution : Singles in the cave, but just remove the ability to tp from inside.
PvMers get a guarantees finish to their kill, no longer need to sit watching minimap. We get some guaranteed PvM action for the PvMer.
Pker gets to attack them as soon as the boss is dead, so we still get PvP interactions in the wildy rather than 0 risk.
Will be passing this one on to the team, I think it might require some tweaking since it'd still be possible to kill, instantly leave the cave and then teleport regardless. Appreciate you sharing this!
I don’t even see the point of putting the bosses in caves then, you can already safespot them in singles+. What would be nice is if jagex just made it so if you get attacked in singles+, you don’t lose the ability to attack the monster your fighting. The amount of kills i could have easily finished while tanking a pker before leaving is obnoxious. The only way the caves would be beneficial at all is if it was somehow impossible to hop within the boss caves (like semi-instanced, so hopping makes you log in outside the entrance to the cave) so pkers have to enter the cave from a fixed point to fight you. The way it would be without that is exactly the same as it is now, which makes it pointless to rework in the first place.
Have raised ideas around preventing hopping inside these singles lairs as well as the ability to finish of your kill if you're feeling up to the task of tanking a PKer. Appreciate your comment and thanks for sharing!
Literally this entire "Rework" is
"We take the boss and move it over here" Patrick Star meme.
Absolute dog shit tier update.
Just wanted to chime in and say that this isn't the case at all - the bosses are fundamentally different, from stats to mechanics to environments. The way you engage with the fights themselves is night and day, and the kind of gear you're able to use is significantly more diverse than what's currently possible.
Wasn’t the idea of the singles bosses that because of the almost no inherent risk, they would have worse rewards?
They were intended as an addition to the rework to satisfy players who have grown accustomed to killing the bosses solo. We didn't players to feel as though they had to group up or risk being swarmed by a group if they just want a specific log slot, when many of them are used to fighting it solo from safespots that are in singles. Effectively we didn't want to pull the ladder up behind those who've already gotten pets/rings etc., while also wanting to modernise the multi-variants of the bosses beyond safespottable sponges.
Thanks Goblin. Perhaps the caves can have a moderate run to the exit that'd give enough time for the PKer to get a free teleblock off?
Also for this it's quite important that rev death mechanics would apply where PvM death = items on the floor, otherwise the PvMer will always suicide to the boss.
Would love to see it considered, even if the 25th release date might make it unfeasible.
I think the 'run to the exit' part is the trickier bit. The singles bosses aren't connected by a web of escape caves (the overworld doesn't really lend itself to it, and they're below 30 Wilderness anyway), the lairs themselves are pretty 'open' so short of some artifical barrier for a few seconds after the boss dies I'm not sure how we'd tackle that exactly.
It also feels a little like giving a PKer a free teleblock is probably more in favour of the PKer than the ability the hit the teleport if you see somebody pop into the cave? Let me know your thoughts!
What's the point in the caves themselves being wildy at all? With the bosses dropping nothing of value all that will happen is kills with 30k risk.
At least with bosses like KBD people risk items on the way to the entrance.
Bosses which involve no material risk in the wilderness is bad design for all parties. Nothing to be gained by a PVPer, inconvenience of interruption for a PVMer.
It's just arbitrary gatekeeping for collection logs/combat diaries.
The bosses don't drop 'nothing of value', they just have vastly reduced GP/hr compared to the multi-combat equivalents. You'd likely be better served chasing your monetary gains at other content, but if you're specifically after a certain pet or log slot then you won't be leaving totally empty-handed. At least, that's my current understanding.
How will the boss kill elite diary task work after the update? Will those new singles bosses count towards it or would you still have to have some sort of team to kill the original bosses in multi?
Plan as far as I'm aware is for these solo variants to count towards CAs and Diary tasks, since you're technically afforded the option to currently complete them all from the safety of singles (via safespots)!
It also feels a little like giving a PKer a free teleblock is probably more in favour of the PKer than the ability the hit the teleport if you see somebody pop into the cave? Let me know your thoughts!
I guess it all depends on how much focus the singles boss fights require and how long they take.
If they're mechanical enough that you have to focus, then watching the minimap 24/7 really starts feeling like an added chore. If they take a while to kill, then getting interrupted mid kill feels like a lot of wasted time.
However if they're fairly simple and you can churn out each individual kill fairly quickly then the minimap+teleport option is a little more appealing. Though I'd be a little disappointed if this were the case for the bosses.
I'd also be sad that we'd have another piece of wildy content designed with the best route for the PvMer being to not interact with PvP at all. It feels contrary to the design philosophy of making stuff in the wildy for people who want to be in the wildy.
The bosses are built out in such a way that they're engaging but not massively demanding on your own, the team's tried to build them with the premise that keeping an eye out for PKers and potentially having to avoid mechanics while tanking or dodging PKers is part of the experience.
Tried to address the 'time to kill' concern in another comment on the post, but it might get buried. Without saying too much, the time-to-kill is significantly lower than the currently existing bosses, and gear diversity is significantly higher.