[2021] Equipment Rebalancing Updated (Again)

Originally posted by TEAM8HYPE

Would it be possible to retain tob/nm pbs but tie them to the highest player threshold? Ie current tob pb would be set to 5 man tob pb, and current nm pb would be set to the largest size pb category (80? 20+?).

The att requirement changes on weapons have not been addressed on stream or any further blog despite 75 att builds being upset with the changes. I believe this frustration stems not from the att level changing but having to choose between being a pvm build or pk build. Has the team considered readjusting the att levels so that there are pk weapons at the same tier as scythe? For example t78 rapier/mace/blade as pvm weapons and vls as a pk weapon, t80 scythe as a pvm weapon and elder maul (with some buff) as a pk weapon. If not has there been any talk/consideration of adding a t85 pk weapon in the near future?

Originally posted by TEAM8HYPE

Would it be possible to retain tob/nm pbs but tie them to the highest player threshold? Ie current tob pb would be set to 5 man tob pb, and current nm pb would be set to the largest size pb category (80? 20+?).

The att requirement changes on weapons have not been addressed on stream or any further blog despite 75 att builds being upset with the changes. I believe this frustration stems not from the att level changing but having to choose between being a pvm build or pk build. Has the team considered readjusting the att levels so that there are pk weapons at the same tier as scythe? For example t78 rapier/mace/blade as pvm weapons and vls as a pk weapon, t80 scythe as a pvm weapon and elder maul (with some buff) as a pk weapon. If not has there been any talk/consideration of adding a t85 pk weapon in the near future?

Originally posted by auntiebanana

Are you considering changing any of the monsters in the inferno to reflect the blowpipe nerf? In the past jagex have stated that the inferno was balanced around the blowpipe, and it feels like you are making the biggest challenge in the game even more difficult.

Originally posted by SudsyGiraffe

If Jagex is going to ram through changes catering to PKers, I'd love to see some sort of countermeasures to skulltricking. I for one would like the opportunity to defend myself knowing that I'm guarenteed to keep my three items. Obviously the +1 would still be a tossup due to smite. If PKers can gear specifically for PKing and organize clans while we are performing wildy activities (e.g. training prayer at chaos altar), it seems reasonable to be able to bring some sort of gear to protect yourself as was intented when runescape was created. I highly doubt skulltricking was part of the original game design, and does nothing but hurt pvp activity.

I don't know if it's capable within the bounds of the current engine, but I'd like to see a Player 'Attack' Option along the lines of "left click if it won't skull" so that I don't have to leave my attack on hidden any time I cross the ditch. If this isn't a viable option, maybe an opt in doomsayer warning whenever attacking someone who would cause you to skull.

If something like this were to go through, I'd actually start killing wildy bosses and using the chaos altar, bringing more risk into the wildy than just a spade for clues. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. People in salad robes would have to learn to PK when people start fighting back, but also are able to make more money. Seems like a win win for everyone.

Originally posted by TacoManifesto

Is this why god d hide body’s just shot up another 100-200k again lmao

Originally posted by Luke_Orlando

Thanks for the update!

I am very intrigued by the buff to medium armor options.

It looks like med helms and square shields could offer an interesting way to hybrid ranged with higher defence in situations where safe spotting isn't available.

Could even open up new low-level PvP gear set ups as well...

Interesting!

The D-Med deserves a place in the meta honestly. It's so iconic.

Originally posted by Melodic-Pudding-2937

Thank you guys, for reconsidering the nerfs to blessed d'hide.

It was such a neat solution for the black d'hide problem and I am really glad that the Dev team does actually listen to its playerbase when it comes to these changes.

All we need now is to repoll the chaps/vambs requirement and maybe something to fill the hole that blowpipes have left (and for the sake of "integrity" please don't make it a 1b+ ultra rare raids 3 reward).

Originally posted by Lozerrr2

Wait so... The hardest challenge Oldschool runescape has to offer isn't receiving any touchups because of BP nerf but COX and Lizardmen Shamans are because people are afraid they'll be "too hard" without it now? Does that make sense to anyone else?

Originally posted by SoraODxoKlink

Idk why shamans specifically, but vasa with a blowpipe is a dps check, so anything lost from bp would make it twice the length for a fight.

Inferno doesn’t have a spot where 10% less dps means a 50% longer fight, it’ll be nerfed the same as everywhere else.

Originally posted by Crumpf

I'm confused as to why only changes to Vasa was mentioned for CoX NPCs? Do you think that is the only CoX NPC that people use the blowpipe on?

What about mystics, muttadile, OLM HEAD, etc

Originally posted by Buspus

Will a balance to lizardman shamans come out with the update on the 10th? Interested in seeing what kind of changes you have in mind

Originally posted by Shunnin

For the vorkath DPS comparison could u make one with the Salve(ei) and void? Its kinda necessary for the boss even on task considering salve and slayer helm dont stack. Med level players that have DS2 done should have atleast have regular void and salve (ei) by that time. It would be a better reflection of how the nerf impacts them.

Originally posted by Crumpf

I'm confused as to why only changes to Vasa was mentioned for CoX NPCs? Do you think that is the only CoX NPC that people use the blowpipe on?

What about mystics, muttadile, OLM HEAD, etc

Originally posted by BioMasterZap

If you are now saying Blessed D'hide doesn't need to be nerfed partly due to its higher reqs, wouldn't lowering the reqs kinda go against that?

Originally posted by CevIsBored

That implies there are "issues" with the pkers ur looking to fix, which sounds like 1 half assed change to help the prey, and 10 buffs to pkers being able to kill people...

Originally posted by Slayy35

It seems you're suggesting to "just use Rune darts" post-nerf.

The issue is that this is unsustainable, especially for Ironmen. Rune bars are very scarce and a lot of grinds that require the Blowpipe will eat up 10s of thousands of your darts.

Perhaps look into introducing a way to get rune darts more reliably? Say an NPC in the ranged guild could sell the dart tips for a decently high price and you'd still need the fletching level to make them (this is already the case for Rune arrows). You could even make buying them require the rune dart Smithing level, if you wanted to keep that part of the integrity for Ironmen.

Originally posted by Agogee

I do not have any issues with the changes to d'hides at this point. I feel that the changes addressed to the god d'hides are fair.

As for the dihn's, I feel that the main issue players have with the changes is the fact that it comes from chambers. Is there any way that the dihn's can be dropped at an alternative location (i.e. Soul War)?

Some other bosses I would like to see addressed in regards to the bp changes are sire and grotesque guardians. One of the most annoying parts of sire is the vents. With bp and d darts it is already inconsistent to complete vents in 2 stuns. I worry that with these changes the vents will be more tedious, making sire even less enjoyable.

I worry about the same issue with the grotesque guardians. The main annoyance with the GGs is phase 3 when players need to dps Dawn down faster than the orbs are reabsorbed. I understand that Dawn's low ranged defense won't impact this as much as other bosses, but this change (however small) is enough to make an annoying boss even more annoying.

Originally posted by themegatuz

Crystal bow and the armour are still useless. Most PvM is done on-task where crystal armour buff renders itself useless since slayer helm + 2 crystal pieces is still better than full crystals on-task.

Will there be any changes to this anytime soon? To make crystal good alternative PvM weapon on-task when blowpipe loses its status?

Originally posted by Straight_6

With the upcoming Wilderness changes starting around April

Can you elaborate?

Originally posted by OhSoReallySerious

The entire community is concerned about the inferno.

The sets during zuk and the healers are based off the bp and bp walking.

Originally posted by suchareq3

Your philosophy toward Toxic Blowpipe seems to remain at "if you buy Dragon Darts it's only a 10% nerf so it's fine", causing to ironmen get shafted. A 30-40% nerf to mid-game Blowpipe is INSANE. I'll have to pull out a DPS calculator everytime I'm even thinking about using Blowpipe anywhere.

Nerfing certain monsters' stats seems to be the wrong approach here, because the obvious unintended side effect is buffing other ranged weapons against them.

Originally posted by adam1738

So you guys acknowledge that nerfing the blowpipe will create a gap, but why does that gap need to be created now? Why not wait until the new rewards are closer to release?

Also, there are still no proposed changes for chainbodies specifically. Idk if it's an old typo from the first blog.

Originally posted by Osmium_tetraoxide

"Just use rune darts". Very viable to maintain for a 20k dry streak that one can easily end up going on. Great way to pull up the drawbridge. It's a crappy grind made worse.

It's all well claiming that they are considering changes, but until they actually do it, it's all talk. The thing I've never understood is that to make Shamans viable, we must wear Shayzien armour, melee armour which is from a minigame where you must use melee. Ranging in melee armour makes sense?

Originally posted by DukeBaird

Stuff like this statement is a huge part of my issue with these changes (the other being its not polled).

We're getting a ton of vague promises and handwaving, and no real substance of anything to look forward to.

Originally posted by Slayy35

Yeah, good to know.

I just remember that I even had to resort to mith darts during my shaman/hydra grind on the HCIM. Can't even imagine how bad it'd be post nerf when Rune darts will be the new addy darts power-wise.

Originally posted by themegatuz

Fair enough. Hopefully this new content doesn't require end-game equipment which already devalues crystal armour and bow, like dragon hunter crossbow or twisted bow. So to speak: getting an upgrade with upgraded weaponry which renders the upgrade to inferior gear obsolete.

Originally posted by Shinnchan

Melee is definitely not viable.

-They hit like dumptrucks in melee range, shayzien armour is basically steel armour.

-You can't damage Shamans when running away from the purple spawns, unlike with ranged.

-If you melee them they'll keep jumping up, another moment where you can't damage them, unlike with ranged where you hug the wall to prevent them from doing so.

Originally posted by WryGoat

I really like the comparison of prenerf blowpipe with addy darts to postnerf with rune against shamans, and the "just use a crossbow lol" example of vorkath with no BGS spec involved in the calculation. I can't even make an accusation of dishonesty because it's just so openly a bad comparison that I can't imagine it was done to deceive anyone, so it's just a stupid thing to put in the blog. Jagex is going through a real wacky period right now I guess, maybe they've got cabin fever from covid lockdowns or being away from the office and working remotely has messed with their workflow.

Also kinda sucks that through all this there's been no acknowledgment from Jagex that this is basically invalidating BP for IMs, because even in content where it is the best in slot option and is intended to be used (like shamans and other low def monsters) it will no longer be worth using when factoring in the time it takes to farm scales. It's funny that the main problem with the blowpipe is its maintenance cost being invalidated by bots - the time that goes into farming scales was always a fine balancing factor for IMs, but for mains the scale cost is nothing thanks to bots. But it's easier to ignore the botting problem and nerf the weapon. I made an IM to avoid the detrimental effects bots have on the game, but now nobody is safe from the effects of game design decisions that try to sweep the bot problem under the rug I guess.

Originally posted by dogchode69

Why has the information not shown inferno in any way at all yet the update is coming in sub two days? If you want transparency, show the difference in a current setup with addy darts bp (rune and dragon too) on zuk healers, ranger & mager and then what the proposed bp would be in the same scenario.

Originally posted by eocdenier

in Equipment Rebalancing Changes you described jal-zek as a medium defense monster at 260 defense, while saying that the adamant nerf will only be -27% dps

however in this blog you categorize vorkath, which has 214 defense and +26 ranged defense, as a high defense monster to justify a nerf of -39% in void. that's higher than the proposed nerf to jad, a 480 def monster, in the old blog (since it says -38.61% nerf)

do you feel like the blog post on the 26th of january was an honest representation of the nerf?

Originally posted by Few-Pop2187

Does this mean Combat Achievements are gonna get released next week?

Originally posted by Caskroth

Are you considering making any changes to current mid-game ranged equipment to even out the large dps decrease from bp? I would love the inclusion of more options, it's demoralising to see the next best crossbow to be upwards of 30M or 100M.

Also thank you for staying with this Mod Ayiza, thank you for communicating as much as you have been rather than staying silent on your reasoning.

Originally posted by fitmedcook

What's the future of balancing gear? The big thing about the blowpipe nerf is that it's being done after 6 years and mostly because of the cost of use/price. "Powercreep" feels more like an excuse since tbow has barely been touched

Should we expect our gear to be nerfed every few years if the price drops?

Originally posted by reinfleche

Do you know when we can expect to see the combat achievements come out?

Originally posted by CaptaineAli

Losing ~30% raw DPS when killing shaman is massive. Obviously a blowpipe nerf is needed, although with how big this is, I'd probably only kill shaman using the Karils Crossbow considering how cheap it is for only .5 less dps. Hopefully I can finish the DWH grind before the nerfs happen.

Edit: the ~40% lower DPS on Vorkath is also massive, although this doesn't scare me as much considering blowpipe isn't currently BIS here and most people will wait until they have DHCB or DHL (I know I will).

Originally posted by eocdenier

The difference between the Vorkath calculation and JalTok-Jad is that the Vorkath calculations are assuming 90 Ranged rather than 99, so the impact will appear to be much more.

i forgot this, but why is this? i see that 90, 95 and 99 ranged are used across blog posts. why not one consistent stat?

Originally posted by Lode5tar

This doesn’t make any sense at all. The Crystal Armour already requires the completion of a Grandmaster quest, why does a further buff need to be locked behind more arbitrary requirements.

The completion of many corrupted/Gauntlets is already a reason to buff the crystal armour. I understand the Crystal Armour’s niche is to buff the crystal bow and to grant a better prayer bonus but they’re both so pitiful. This is also factoring in the minuscule 5% bonus the armour grants when you wear THE ENTIRE armour set in the Beta.

For a High Level armour set (locked behind quests) to perform abysmally vs Blessed D’hide, Karil’s and Armadyl honestly deserves another hour of the teams time.

P.S. I hated typing in the last part because it should have been a great armour set to begin with.

Originally posted by maelstrom51

How about you buff the existing crystal armour set to be good now instead of requiring yet another grind to make it worthwhile?

It's already a difficult to get degradable end game armour set. There is no reason it can't or shouldn't be made into a good option now.

It really feels like you're wanting to milk the void left by the blowpipe nerf as long as possible with ever longer grinds.

Originally posted by Hairy_Balsagna

Hoping this is seen. Part of the reason for the BP nerf is its strength at its availability. "Buffing" the higher tier darts is a good balance for this. Rune darts shouldn't be easily available when they are the second strongest option. This makes mining runite ore that much more valuable. I think it's a good balance as proposed. Adding darts to more drop tables just enforces more bossing, not skilling.

There's always a grind. People don't like skilling because it's not as rewarding as bossing. If Jagex decides to balance resources between skilling and PvM (more on the skilling side), more of the game is enjoyed. We are too used to PvM for resources, when we SHOULD BE SKILLING!

Originally posted by coolsexhaver69

I need you to understand that responses like this are why many irons feel they are not being heard or thought about at all in relation to this. It’s already a miserable grind as is and the response is “try to melee them even though it’s not even remotely comparable in terms of speed” and “we’ll consider some dart stuff eventually maybe possibly”

Originally posted by HiddenGhost1234

It's be really cool if new gear let you use slayer helm with the full set bonus, would actually make it viable

Originally posted by thecheese27

Never forget content poll #2 where using the middle mouse button to move the camera failed.

Originally posted by Osmium_tetraoxide

It has been literally years since Shaziyen armour has been out, people have smithed literally millions of pieces of the armour. Is it not possible that if we might just be able to make some ranged based armour that offers protection?

They have archers that would be nearly 200 mil ranged training day in day out in melee armour. think its about time for them to get an upgrade, which they can share with the player. Add a range based combat ring or something similar. Instead of just tweaking some numbers, lets add in a bit more lore and something fun.

Melee can be done but the kills per hour just isn't the same. The shorter trips, increased jumping, food gathering time doesn't out weigh the time to gather darts and scales. We're just making a kinda dull grind even longer. Especially for the poor sods who go dry, and dry they can very much go.

Also, autoban anyone using a team cape in the Lizardman temple. There are hundreds, if not billions of little goblin bot biker boys.

Originally posted by Fableandwater

Why do you guys care if people make money off this kind of thing? Isn't the balance of the game more important than someone making gp from an update? I've never understood this

Originally posted by Kresbot

hey Ayiza, replying to you as id like to try and get an answer, are you guys planning on rebalancing the rest of the gear that’s currently out there or just nitpicking these few odd items out of all of them? Personally i feel like if you’re doing it why do it right and balance everything to be inline with combat triangle and level reqs - this would also allow you to release higher tiers as rewards for things for years to come

Originally posted by stub_dep01

But why is it not something you guys are planning to do? It's such an obvious solution to the gap problem imposed by the bp nerfs.

Originally posted by Satan_Battles

So while you “monitor” the situation, the ironmen just get screwed? Why can’t these solutions be researched and come out at the same time as the nerf?

Originally posted by newquestidewa

dust settle first, then approach changes with a clear view of what needs changing, if anything.

This hasnt gone well previously, it has always taken so long before there were any nerfs, the blowpipe itself has been known to be broken since day it was released and now its been over 6 years and now you finally started talk about nerfing it

Originally posted by eocdenier

i see, i do think considering the average ranged level/gear of the players is a better way to go about it, i was just confused looking back

thanks for answering my questions

Originally posted by adam1738

I wasn't expecting anything. This paragraph from the blog just makes it sound like some change for the chainbodies is coming.

" 'Lighter' armour like Chainbodies, Med Helms and Square Shields are completely outclassed by their counterparts - Platebodies, Full Helms and Kiteshields. "

Not trying to be rude btw.

Originally posted by Amaranthyne

Why are you focusing on equipment changes before general Wilderness changes if general changes are already planned? It seems entirely backasswards to me.