Original Post — Direct link

Update:

You should focus any testing efforts on: Is there a difference between 2h, "dual wield" aka torags/maracas/sulfur blades, and standard 1h. Also figuring out wtf the blue shield number means after the bosses die and send you away.

It's 2am and my eyes hurt so I'm gonna call it until tomorrow. After checking some ideas I've made a standardized set of trials with consistent gear and only changing the weapons. It's unlikely armour changes anything anyways. I'm not done yet but so far it LOOKS like Eclipse is -4, Blood +2, and Blue +5. Double hit weapons get double the effect. This is PRELIMINARY though because I have an old recording clearly showing only -2 max on bludgeon at eclipse, and another run a few minutes ago with BGS also getting only -2 at eclipse, but then getting +2 at blood. I have no idea wtf is going on here unless 2h vs double hit dual wield vs regular one hand is actually being delineated.

Fun additional things: Fang hit a 6 (-2 min) on counter phase. Also, I still cannot figure out wtf Eclipse's "your attack glances off it's shield!" actually does. The above -2 max BGS was one such "glancing" attack, which it should have been -4, so it's clearly not damage reduction or a guaranteed miss.

Known new things:

  • As /u/coolrich2 has pointed out, the debuff counters for blue and eclipse are only visible if you use the official client. Lmao.
  • The only information provided by said debuff bar is that the debuff is called "Curse of the Moons" for both bosses, as well as how many stacks you have.
  • Works as described for ice and hitting 16 stacks forces the next attack to fail, but I'm seeing zero effect from Eclipse's debuff. It apparently caps at 127 stacks though.

To cut to the chase: your maximum hit is reduced on Eclipse Moon, increased on Blood Moon, and increased even more on Blue Moon. Some friends and I in discord have been going at this for hours with all kinds of tests and we can't figure out why, or what the amount of change actually is. This started as a crackpot theory that double hit weapons (torag's and macuahitls) are secretly buffed, changed into a "defence = max hits" idea, and then rapidly went into the ground. Some actual numbers to help explain:

  • Rapier in a certain setup should have a max hit of 53. This becomes 49, 54, and 56 on Eclipse, Blood, and Blue respectively.

  • Same thing for Saeldor.

  • Bludgeon with a max of 49 hit 45, 51, and 55.

  • Verac's flail (we thought there was some weird sh*t with barrows weapons) should have hit 39 but did 37 on Eclipse, no data for the other two.

  • Torag's hammers in full barrows tank gear (but no set bonus) needed to hit 44 but did 40, 48, and a whopping 54.

  • Exact same scenario but taking all of the tank gear off and going naked yielded the same results.

  • Dual Macuahitls have numbers from several people that are all over the place and I've lost track, but they follow a similar pattern to Torag's hammers, hitting as high as 29 on a single hitsplat (which would be a max of 58) against Blue with barrows armour and a fire cape.

  • Failing or succeeding mechanics changed nothing in regards to the actual max hitsplats during any of the tests.

So to parse this all together into some conclusions:

  • Eclipse is always a reduced max, Blood an increase, and Blue an even further increase.

  • It's unrelated to player defence value, at least in terms of gear.

  • Unrelated to attack style (slash/crush/stab).

  • Unrelated to mechanics, phases, skillful play, or bad play.

  • Weapons that hit twice seem to get a bigger increase and decrease, most notably a HUGE buff against Blue Moon.

  • It does not appear to be a percentage change, it's far too inconsistent between weapons for that.

  • It does not appear to be a flat number change, as it is inconsistent between single hit weapons and the effect on double hit weapons is far too large.

What in Guthix' name is going on here? Is there some secret multipler on player strength bonus which is randomly pulled out of a hat and arbitrarily quadrupled for two-hit weapons but only on one boss? We're stumped, and need you to either magically see the method to Jagex' madness, or go further test things yourself that haven't been done yet. There very well might be some hidden layer to this that makes Torag's hammers actually good (although they can skip Eclipse's counter phase so they actually are good anyways). It's your time to shine Reddit.

External link →
about 1 month ago - /u/JagexRice - Direct link

Oooh they cookin'.

30 days ago - /u/JagexRice - Direct link

Originally posted by bobly81

If we figure it out would you be willing to explain the reasoning behind it? Whether that be balance or lore or whatever. As far as I'm aware this is the first time we've seen mobs that straight up change your max hit, and also do so at seemingly different amounts for different weapons.

Sounds like a fun incentive! Once everyone's figured it out reply to this comment and I'll try to shed some light on the design choice. You are correct by the way, this is the first time we've tried this. I hope you all like the idea!

30 days ago - /u/JagexRice - Direct link

Originally posted by bobly81

Well we've got it now. It's a brand new stat line called armour that directly adds or subtracts damage from all accurate hitsplats. We hit significantly more 1s on Eclipse (probably has a floor of 1, or could just be mega unlucky), and never lower than a 5 on Blue. Max hits also effected of course.

In retrospect we could have avoided a lot of trouble by simply opening our eyes a little wider, but it was also a lot of fun in the discovery. I have an imgur album here to tell the little story. We had pretty confidently deduced the info I gave in update 3, and were simply waffling about on how to figure out Eclipse's debuff (which we still don't understand LMAO), when someone in general linked the blog update. I flipped it open and sure enough, first bullet point under Perilous Moons is "Give a more fitting name to the 'Armour' stat on the new bosses." I snapshot that and another guy suddenly remembered a post from "Ed" (Mod Ed? Is there a Mod Ed? Maybe a wiki guy?) talking about armour being a form of flat damage reduction. Instantly I grabbed monster examine to see if this new stat would show up and there it was. 4 on Eclipse, -5 on Blue, -2 on Blood. I tried to snap Eclipse during his counter phase but the game doesn't let you monster examine him then. :(

Now tell us! I like the idea and it opens up a new avenue of balance for multihit, fast attack speed, and other such weapons while also adding an option for "armour reduction" and other such mechanics which is really cool. How'd you guys come to this idea?

You hit the nail on the head with what we were going for. It's another balancing lever to creat fun niches. Right now, Ballista is bad everywhere, and blowpipe is best anywhere there's low defense. Flat armour is a tool we can use to make weapons relevant in different places. Assuming players didn't hate it! And yes also give multihit weapons a niche. I'm glad the discovery was fun :) and thanks for sharing the image!