over 2 years ago - /u/JagexZuko - Direct link

Just scoping out some feedback. I'm curious how people feel about item charges as they are, currently, in game, and how a rework would affect players, both positive and negative. It won't necessarily happen, it's just something on my mind.

There are three types of 'charges' on items.

One type of item per charge (A) - This is the most common type. An amulet of glory (1), amulet of glory (2), etc, are all different items. As a result, you will collect up to 7 different types of amulet of glories in your bank ranging from amulet of glory (6) to the inert amulet of glory.

An object variable to track charges (B) - This is only currently used by the Xeric's Talisman as far as teleport jewellery goes. Object variables are a bit annoying. Think of Wintertodt crates when thinking object variables. Each of those crates has several object variables storing your levels at different times, in order to give you a reward matching that level when you choose to open the crate. As a result, each crate is a different item, and will be stored in its own placeholder in the bank. Hence, annoying.

A player variable to track charges (C) - This is my favourite approach. It's used by the dodgy necklace. Every dodgy necklace is the same item, and every time a charge is used, a variable is decreased on the player, until that variable hits zero, at which time a dodgy necklace is deleted, and the variable is reset back to 10. As a result, you only have one bank placeholder for a dodgy necklace. Very pretty, very elegant. Everyone's happy.

Moving onto Zuko's 'If I were supreme emperor of OSRS and just did whatever I liked to the game' rework idea:


  • We get rid of (B) methods by simply replacing them with (C). Players log in one day and their Xeric's Talisman with an object variable storing 250 charges now simply is a static Xeric's Talisman item, and a player tracking variable of 250 charges. Not really much fuss here, Xeric's Talismans will then stack appropriately, and nobody loses charges.

  • For the case of (A) items, we change them to function as (C) items, instead. We take every item in their bank and count their total charges. As an example, a player has an 4 ring of dueling (6)s, 3 ring of dueling (4)s, and 2 ring of dueling (3)s. That's 42 overall charges. Normally, a ring of dueling stores a maximum of 8 charges. The player logs in to find in their bank only one type of 'Ring of Dueling' item. They have 6 of them (for 5 x 8 = 40 charges), and their 'ring of duelling charges' player variable is 2, this gives them their 42 charges back, effectively. Then, when the player uses the 2 charges, the ring of duelling they use is deleted, and their 'ring of duelling charges' player variable is set back to 8. This way, we're not stealing any charges from the player with the rework, we're just tidying their bank up. In the case of jewellery like dragonstone, for example, we don't delete the item, we just replace it with the inert item. So that means we have two versions of the jewellery, 'charged', and 'uncharged'. There's one exception, and that's with items that have multiple types of maximum charge. For example pharaoh's sceptre (8) to (3) and dragonstone jewellery such as amulet of glory (6) to (4). The Pharaoh's sceptre isn't much of a problem, as we can just check player diary statuses to see what we're going to let their maximum number of charges be on an item. The dragonstone jewellery is a bit more annoying. In this case, it's probably best we take your amulet of glory (6) and (5), add those charges together, and create an 'extended amulet of glory' variable, along with an 'extended amulet of glory' item which has the (6) max charges behaviour. Then all (4) charge and below jewellery is simply stored on the regular 'amulet of glory' item and variable. This means 3 total items, the extended amulet of glory, regular amulet of glory, and uncharged amulet of glory. Though I could see players potentially being annoyed that they didn't want to accumulate a massive amount of regular amulet of glories, meaning they have to now take them all to 0 charges before being able to get rid of the regular amulet of glory, and only having the extended amulet of glory placeholder in their bank.


Bit too much text here, I'm not gonna lie. But we got through it, together! My questions to players -

How do you feel about the above proposed rework? Would it make you happy? Is it just not a necessary idea? Would it affect established metas? If this happened, would you like to see a re-work extended to other items, such as potions? (Though in the case of potions, we'd probably end up with a giant 'vat' for each potion type with 1000s of doses in it, that you could take x vials of 1 dose, x vials of 2 dose, etc from, as opposed to just having a single item per potion up to max charges).

External link →
over 2 years ago - /u/JagexZuko - Direct link

Just scoping out some feedback. I'm curious how people feel about item charges as they are, currently, in game, and how a rework would affect players, both positive and negative. It won't necessarily happen, it's just something on my mind.

There are three types of 'charges' on items.

One type of item per charge (A) - This is the most common type. An amulet of glory (1), amulet of glory (2), etc, are all different items. As a result, you will collect up to 7 different types of amulet of glories in your bank ranging from amulet of glory (6) to the inert amulet of glory.

An object variable to track charges (B) - This is only currently used by the Xeric's Talisman as far as teleport jewellery goes. Object variables are a bit annoying. Think of Wintertodt crates when thinking object variables. Each of those crates has several object variables storing your levels at different times, in order to give you a reward matching that level when you choose to open the crate. As a result, each crate is a different item, and will be stored in its own placeholder in the bank. Hence, annoying.

A player variable to track charges (C) - This is my favourite approach. It's used by the dodgy necklace. Every dodgy necklace is the same item, and every time a charge is used, a variable is decreased on the player, until that variable hits zero, at which time a dodgy necklace is deleted, and the variable is reset back to 10. As a result, you only have one bank placeholder for a dodgy necklace. Very pretty, very elegant. Everyone's happy.

Moving onto Zuko's 'If I were supreme emperor of OSRS and just did whatever I liked to the game' rework idea:


  • We get rid of (B) methods by simply replacing them with (C). Players log in one day and their Xeric's Talisman with an object variable storing 250 charges now simply is a static Xeric's Talisman item, and a player tracking variable of 250 charges. Not really much fuss here, Xeric's Talismans will then stack appropriately, and nobody loses charges.

  • For the case of (A) items, we change them to function as (C) items, instead. We take every item in their bank and count their total charges. As an example, a player has an 4 ring of dueling (6)s, 3 ring of dueling (4)s, and 2 ring of dueling (3)s. That's 42 overall charges. Normally, a ring of dueling stores a maximum of 8 charges. The player logs in to find in their bank only one type of 'Ring of Dueling' item. They have 6 of them (for 5 x 8 = 40 charges), and their 'ring of duelling charges' player variable is 2, this gives them their 42 charges back, effectively. Then, when the player uses the 2 charges, the ring of duelling they use is deleted, and their 'ring of duelling charges' player variable is set back to 8. This way, we're not stealing any charges from the player with the rework, we're just tidying their bank up. In the case of jewellery like dragonstone, for example, we don't delete the item, we just replace it with the inert item. So that means we have two versions of the jewellery, 'charged', and 'uncharged'. There's one exception, and that's with items that have multiple types of maximum charge. For example pharaoh's sceptre (8) to (3) and dragonstone jewellery such as amulet of glory (6) to (4). The Pharaoh's sceptre isn't much of a problem, as we can just check player diary statuses to see what we're going to let their maximum number of charges be on an item. The dragonstone jewellery is a bit more annoying. In this case, it's probably best we take your amulet of glory (6) and (5), add those charges together, and create an 'extended amulet of glory' variable, along with an 'extended amulet of glory' item which has the (6) max charges behaviour. Then all (4) charge and below jewellery is simply stored on the regular 'amulet of glory' item and variable. This means 3 total items, the extended amulet of glory, regular amulet of glory, and uncharged amulet of glory. Though I could see players potentially being annoyed that they didn't want to accumulate a massive amount of regular amulet of glories, meaning they have to now take them all to 0 charges before being able to get rid of the regular amulet of glory, and only having the extended amulet of glory placeholder in their bank.


Bit too much text here, I'm not gonna lie. But we got through it, together! My questions to players -

How do you feel about the above proposed rework? Would it make you happy? Is it just not a necessary idea? Would it affect established metas? If this happened, would you like to see a re-work extended to other items, such as potions? (Though in the case of potions, we'd probably end up with a giant 'vat' for each potion type with 1000s of doses in it, that you could take x vials of 1 dose, x vials of 2 dose, etc from, as opposed to just having a single item per potion up to max charges).

External link →
over 2 years ago - /u/JagexZuko - Direct link

Originally posted by Wazzaru

Hi Zuko! Sounds good - working similar to rings of recoils it sounds like. My question comes around Dragonstone jewellery, just to clean it up:

I have 5x 4-Charge Glories. I use 3 Glory charges, so in effect I have 3x 4-Charge, and 1x 1-Charge Glory in the old system, in the proposed system, I would just have one stack of 'Amulet of Glory'? As such, when I use that last charge on my Glory, I receive an inert glory and my stack of glories are all 4-Charges still?

If so, can we also make sure to have an option to 'uncharge' Glories as sometimes I might want to deliberately take a 2-charge glory? Similar to rings of dueling? It would lowkey be annoying to go to do an activity where you have a 1-charge ring of dueling for example and teleport when you would usually pick an 8-charge? Thoguhts on this?

Heya. Yeah, your assumptions in the first part are correct. :)

You're right, too. This change should definitely require an 'uncharge' or 'break' option to come with it for every item edited.

over 2 years ago - /u/JagexZuko - Direct link

Originally posted by NoCurrencies

I do know that some people like alching dueling rings and games necklaces that only have 1 charge left. But I'm not sure how popular this is. Not something I've ever done personally, so I would strongly favor such a change.

Oh that's a darn good point, actually. I hadn't thought about this.

I suppose we could look at the high alch values of items to verify, and then consider resetting the players charges if they choose to alch a piece of jewellery. :) That pretty much seems to keep that functionality available.

over 2 years ago - /u/JagexZuko - Direct link

Originally posted by Studquo

Sounds like it could be annoying in certain circumstances.

For example, sometimes you want to withdraw a fully charged glory instead of a partially charged glory. If I'm doing clues I'd be forced to withdraw two glories more often or buy an eternal glory. And if I wanted to make eternal glories, I would have to go through 6 charges on every glory.

There's a few more metas that take advantage of partially charged jewelry and updating them to option C would disrupt them and make them clunkier/slower.

Curiously, what are those methods? For example, I can definitely see an 'uncharge' option on amulet of glory being useful to get your max charges back on the item. But I'm not so sure if I see a meta regarding using an amulet of glory with say 2 charges on it.

over 2 years ago - /u/JagexZuko - Direct link

Originally posted by c0cktimus-prim3

The one issue I see with turning every teleport item into option C is if another item is created like the master scroll book. Currently if you’re doing master clues and have the scroll book in your inv then open the casket and get another one both books will act as being filled with the same amount of scrolls. This makes it annoying to sell 1 of them because you have to remove all the scrolls to make it an empty scroll book, then re add them to the original book. I believe you can just break down one of the books too and this solves the issue, but if one of the versions is more expensive (book > scrolls) then some players may still want to sell it in book form over scroll form.

Gotcha, gotcha! Yeah that is one of the drawbacks. When designing Tempoross' rewards, I kind of ran into the issue of how odd it felt that two fish barrels would contain the exact same inventory of fish. So I just made it impossible to receive more than one.

It might be worth coming up with a solution to situations like this, in the future. Such as letting you have an 'active' master scroll book, but only one, and then an 'uncharged' version which can be sold. This is pretty commonly the solution used with weapons that use charges.

over 2 years ago - /u/JagexZuko - Direct link

Originally posted by OSRSgamerkid

I like this idea and I think it would be a neat implementation, a solid QOL update.

However, not to hand hand compliment something, should most resources be spent solving 5he issues of bots in the game, such as LMS in particular?

Yeah, I get this. We've kinda had a lot of different priorities at Jagex, all of which deserve focus. It's why I'm glad we have a PvP focused team now.

In my case, I dedicate myself to the game client as part of the game client team, but I do like to think about QoL/usability as a result of client re-works. For me, this question came to mind because a few months ago I categorized every single 'charge' item in the game for client work. (There are a lot.)

I'm always happy to lend a hand with game integrity, whether it's botting or otherwise, but it's just not my personal focus when it comes to content. If client re-work helps with it, though, then I'm probably the person to talk to!

over 2 years ago - /u/JagexZuko - Direct link

Originally posted by TheMcCannic

What was you favourite and least favourite "charge" item?

Favourite - The rod of ivandis. Purely because it turns into 'rod dust'.

Least favourite - The xeric's talisman. There is literally no reason for it to not be stackable.

over 2 years ago - /u/JagexZuko - Direct link

A Twitter user brought up that they would want this to be an optional update, to which I suddenly realised - actually, they're right! Why not make it optional? We could always have NPCs to handle the exchanges, and let you opt into/out of it that way. :)

over 2 years ago - /u/JagexZuko - Direct link

This has been awesome, and informative btw. Sorry I can't respond to all.

What I'm seeing here is 'Yes, this would be very nice, and many people would benefit BUT there's like a billion edge cases', which is about the most Old School thing I could imagine.

My personal take-away is that it should be an optional method of self-opted organisation, and not touch any of the existing game.

Perhaps the 'potion vats' aren't even part of the bank. They're just another option, maybe on the banker. And you can choose to deposit/withdraw in the potion vat that way, or just go the traditional route of storing the potions directly in your bank. And perhaps the jewellery could have an exchanger, someone who takes your regularly charged jewellery, and swaps it out for the newer system of jewellery, that is untradeable.

That way, we're not touching any item drops, any current in game systems, or anyones items. We're just offering an opt-in form of organisation.