Original Post — Direct link

(Spreadsheet of this information at this link!)

I've had a pretty slow start to the league (internet troubles *shakes fist*), but when I could, I have been slowly playing and making my way through the acts. I decided on making a self-cast Desecrate+Detonate Dead character, due to the recent Necro buffs in max life increases from the ascendancy, as well as corpse generation + desecrate cooldown removed. Due to me wanting to be interesting/maybe dumb, I decided on focussing increasing just the initial 6% max life of corpse explosion (meaning no spell damage modifiers affect it - only the max life of corpses + fire, elemental, area, and flat increased damage).

Naturally, when I decided on a theory-crafted build without consulting any previous builds/guides, during most of my waking hours and work hours I begin to ponder on certain intricacies with my build. Today, on a fairly slow day at work, something struck me.

My current build uses Self-Cast Detonate Dead linked to Unleash and Spell Cascade - meaning that for each cast of Detonate Dead, I can clear 9/10 of the mobs for each Spell Echo + Desecrate made. So, if corpses from the Spectres I summon also appear, I can summon extremely high life Spectres and thus, increase the explosion damage on Detonate Dead. I did some initial testing, and it seems that this works. However, this only lead me down an even more interesting train of thought, and eventually, data-analysis. Get ready.

Desecrate adds the current spectre you have into your summon pool - this thing most people know - meaning that if I have a Solar Guard (just as an example, these guys have pretty poor life compared to some other summons) as a summon, I will also be able to desecrate that Solar Guard in any zone I am in. But I began to wonder - does the number of Spectres you summon affect the amount of non-generic monsters spawned by desecrate?

I began with an initial test of 100 sets of desecrate cap of 10 (spell echo+desecrate) initially with one Spectre summoned, and then two spectres, calculating the amount of Spectre corpses spawned per desecrate cap. The results are as shown:

1 Spectre Summoned: 0.9 per Desecrate Cap

2 Spectres Summoned: 0.76 per Desecrate Cap

As you can see, there is a little amount of variation. In fact, it hinted at the opposite of what I originally hypothesised. However, as this was only over a sample size of 100, these values aren't truly accurate - keep this in mind. I wasn't convinced that there was any difference - and honestly, why would there be? It doesn't really make sense from a programming standpoint. So thus, the conclusion was drawn.

CONCLUSION: NUMBER OF SPECTRES SUMMONED DOES NOT INCREASE NON-GENERIC MINION SPAWN ON DESECRATE

Thanks everyone for readi --

Wait. There is no way I could leave this there. We didn't find any juicy information! I began to ponder. Hard. Sure, it seems that the spectre number summoned of the same spectre doesn't affect the pool. But... Do multiple different spectres each have self-contained spawn rates when Desecrated? Meaning, if I have three different monster types summoned as spectres, will they all share the same average per Desecrate cap summon, or will they all function on their own different spawn rate?

To do this, I ran two more samples, then used this formula -

(Average Spectre monster per Desecrate cap * flat life total) + (average non-Spectre monster per Desecrate cap * flat life total)

With this, I was able to run these samples through my little test:

2 spectres of different kinds; and

3 spectres of different kinds.

And what I found... well. Here's the data (also in a spreadsheet at the top of the post). I have assumed certain things, such as base monster life of generic monsters spawned by desecrate, and I also consulted poedb.tw for this.

IF ASSUMED:

Average Desecrate monster life: 1.3x base life

Monster life just for the purpose of testing): 10,000

THEN:

Total monster life for Desecrate cap: 130,000

1 SPECTRE SUMMONED:

Spectre average per Desecrate cap: 0.77

Spectre life total (Enhanced Vaal Fallen monster): 4.5x base life

Flat life total: 45,000

THEN:

Total monster life for Desecrate cap: 154,640

% increase total life from original Desecrate: 19%

¬

2 SPECTRES SUMMONED:

Spectre average per Desecrate cap: 1.54

Spectre life total average (Enhanced Vaal Fallen + Sandworn Slaves): 4.45x base life

Flat life total: 44,500

THEN:

Total monster life for Desecrate cap: 178,510

% increase total life from original Desecrate: 37%

¬

3 SPECTRES SUMMONED:

Spectre average per Desecrate cap: 2.31

Spectre life total average (Enhanced Vaal Fallen + Sandworn Slaves + Rattling Condemned): 4.333x base life

Flat life total: 43,333.33

THEN:

Total monster life for Desecrate cap: 200,069.23

% increase total life from original Desecrate: 54%

----------------------------

HOLY GUACAMOLE, EXILES.

From this small test, we can gain some EXTREMELY interesting information. Basically, with three different types of spectres summoned, we can effectively INCREASE OUR DETONATE DEAD INITIAL DAMAGE BY 50% (or more)!!!

This is a really crazy find. I think. I hope I've done my math right.

We can also extract from this that there is an average damage increase of 16% PER DIFFERENT SPECTRE SUMMONED, provided the average spectre monster life hovers around 4.43x base monster life. However, there may be diminishing returns on this, and I only have access to 3 spectres as of right now - so I cannot test 4, 5 or more. However, I plan to do so.

THIS IS A BUFF.

Badger, out.

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about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

I am super impressed by your dedication to testing this and methodology, well done.

However, perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see anything specifying where you tested this? As you might be able to guess from my pointing this out, that will affect the results - all the monster types spawned in generation of the area are in the pool for desecrate, so the number of those affects how "diluted" it already is before you add your spectres to the mix.

If, as I suspect, you tested this in your hideout, then there would be no monsters from the area available, so the initial descrate pool would just be the one base monster type that's added if the pool is otherwise empty to ensure desecrate always has something it can spawn. As such, the results won't be as impressive playing in an actual area with its own monsters.

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by nasaboy007

Do different hideout tilesets have different desecrate-able monsters? I only run solar guard spectres, so theoretically they should be 100% of the desecrated corpses, but in my Overgrown Hideout, I always see tons (i.e. more than 1+solarguards) of different types of monsters.

Spectre corpses and area corpses are two separate lists, which get added together. Constructing the area corpse list will add the base descrate monster if it would otherwise be empty, so there will always be at least one monster contributed by that list rather than the spectre list, once they two are combined.

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by nooneyouknow13

So, my in league Cartographer's Hideout spawns bonestalkers, host chieftans, and carnage chieftans in addition to my current spectres. I have never had chieftans as spectres in this league, so I've been wondering if they were base spectres, or pulling from the fact I have them as active spectres on a standard character?

It's possible that I'm wrong or out of date about hideouts in this respect, and they do have a set of monsters that count as "native" to them based on the tileset.

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by Switchersaw

If you do any trading this league, anyone with spectres entering your hideout will add those spectres until you force a refresh of your hideout instance by either logging out for a while, or by changing hideouts via Helena and then back to your desired hideout.

Oh, yeah, this is almost certainly it. Those will have existed in the instance as spectres of a player.

about 5 years ago - /u/Mark_GGG - Direct link

Originally posted by nooneyouknow13

Looks like the other two were probably right about it being trades, they're not spawning for me now.

I really don't feel like I had traded with a spectre user every play session so far this league, but I have no way to be sure.

Yeah, I completely failed to consider that people entering to trade would bring those monster types into the instance as spectres, and thus add to the spectre list. That'll be the explaination.