7 months ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Howdy, 'Scapers.

Following on from https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1766sqq/latest_news_on_golden_bamboo/, I'm taking a look at the oft-requested Feeling Pumped mutator in Shattered Worlds.

Similarly, I'd like to work with you to design a long-term solution for Feeling Pumped that's the best balance of gameplay usage and game health.

According to my research, prior to December, Feeling Pumped had this effect:

"You have a 25% chance on hit to feel EPIC, gaining unlimited adrenaline for the next 10 seconds."

and it's currently:

"You have a 5% chance on hit to feel EPIC, gaining unlimited adrenaline for the next 6 seconds."

Plus an 18 second cooldown between activations to prevent Feeling Pumped from potentially triggering indefinitely.

To quote the patch notes at the time:

This temporary change was made due to increasingly excessive XP rates players had been receiving in conjunction with recent changes to special attacks.

Have read several threads on the subject, endeavouring to catch up with the conversation so far.

This particular comment jumped out to us as a clear expression of the gameplay value:

"Feeling Pumped is everything in Shattered Worlds. Nerfing that means nerfing the fun of the entire mode, and what made it even reasonably possible to actually get through high level worlds in a reasonable time span"

Several comments also indicate that Feeling Pumped provided a valuable opportunity space to level augmented equipment, so I think that's an important use case to preserve.

In essence, the underlying problem seemingly is that Feeling Pumped is 'broken' in a scenario where you can gain combat XP from it. Unlimited adrenaline means unlimited high hitting AOE abilities, and we're trying to keep combat XP manageable and meaningful.

With all this in mind, here's my proposed solution for how to resolve Feeling Pumped:

  • Restore the original proc chance and duration
  • When Feeling Pumped is active, block combat XP when defeating Shattered Worlds monsters
    • Consequently change Feeling Pumped to a neutral mutator

...thereby decoupling XP rates from the fun of pushing worlds with unlimited adrenaline.

Augmented equipment gains experience from the damage you inflict, rather than when you defeat an NPC, so item XP would be unaffected.

(In future we may need to consider capping or scaling item XP when Feeling Pumped is active if it gets cray-cray - new and future methods a la finger of death will likely push the potential of unlimited adrenaline even further - but we can cross that bridge when we set fire to it.)

To express that proposal in the form of a mutator description:

"You have a 25% chance on hit to feel EPIC, gaining unlimited adrenaline for the next 10 seconds. When Feeling Pumped, defeated monsters grant 0 combat XP."

How do you feel about that as a potential solution? Any concerns?

Would love to hear your ideas and alternatives below!

External link →
7 months ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Howdy, 'Scapers.

Following on from https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1766sqq/latest_news_on_golden_bamboo/, I'm taking a look at the oft-requested Feeling Pumped mutator in Shattered Worlds.

Similarly, I'd like to work with you to design a long-term solution for Feeling Pumped that's the best balance of gameplay usage and game health.

According to my research, prior to December, Feeling Pumped had this effect:

"You have a 25% chance on hit to feel EPIC, gaining unlimited adrenaline for the next 10 seconds."

and it's currently:

"You have a 5% chance on hit to feel EPIC, gaining unlimited adrenaline for the next 6 seconds."

Plus an 18 second cooldown between activations to prevent Feeling Pumped from potentially triggering indefinitely.

To quote the patch notes at the time:

This temporary change was made due to increasingly excessive XP rates players had been receiving in conjunction with recent changes to special attacks.

Have read several threads on the subject, endeavouring to catch up with the conversation so far.

This particular comment jumped out to us as a clear expression of the gameplay value:

"Feeling Pumped is everything in Shattered Worlds. Nerfing that means nerfing the fun of the entire mode, and what made it even reasonably possible to actually get through high level worlds in a reasonable time span"

Several comments also indicate that Feeling Pumped provided a valuable opportunity space to level augmented equipment, so I think that's an important use case to preserve.

In essence, the underlying problem seemingly is that Feeling Pumped is 'broken' in a scenario where you can gain combat XP from it. Unlimited adrenaline means unlimited high hitting AOE abilities, and we're trying to keep combat XP manageable and meaningful.

With all this in mind, here's my proposed solution for how to resolve Feeling Pumped:

  • Restore the original proc chance and duration
  • When Feeling Pumped is active, block combat XP when defeating Shattered Worlds monsters
    • Consequently change Feeling Pumped to a neutral mutator

...thereby decoupling XP rates from the fun of pushing worlds with unlimited adrenaline.

Augmented equipment gains experience from the damage you inflict, rather than when you defeat an NPC, so item XP would be unaffected.

(In future we may need to consider capping or scaling item XP when Feeling Pumped is active if it gets cray-cray - new and future methods a la finger of death will likely push the potential of unlimited adrenaline even further - but we can cross that bridge when we set fire to it.)

To express that proposal in the form of a mutator description:

"You have a 25% chance on hit to feel EPIC, gaining unlimited adrenaline for the next 10 seconds. When Feeling Pumped, defeated monsters grant 0 combat XP."

How do you feel about that as a potential solution? Any concerns?

Would love to hear your ideas and alternatives below!

External link →
7 months ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by Recent_Entry_7178

Increase the amount of points you get and adjust other reward costs. Otherwise sounds good.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by that?

By points, are you referring to the https://runescape.wiki/w/Shattered_anima you get to spend in the https://runescape.wiki/w/Shattered_Worlds_Reward_Shop?

Are there specific reward costs in that shop that you see as a cause for concern?

7 months ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by Jagex_Stu

Could you elaborate on what you mean by that?

By points, are you referring to the https://runescape.wiki/w/Shattered_anima you get to spend in the https://runescape.wiki/w/Shattered_Worlds_Reward_Shop?

Are there specific reward costs in that shop that you see as a cause for concern?

Thank you for clarifying!

Rebalancing the reward shop's an adjacent issue to Feeling Pumped, but I'd be happy to gather feedback and put in a request for it.

How would you price the slayer masks differently, given what you know about lower-level anima/hour?

7 months ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by MC-sama

I would absolutely love Shattered Worlds to be playable again and also be able to level up my items giga fast at the expense of combat exp gain.

Sounds good to me on paper. Just not really sure how fast item leveling will be in general ever since the adjustments post-necro update though.

Will there still be a cooldown on Feeling Pumped or will that be removed?

Will there still be a cooldown on Feeling Pumped or will that be removed?

I'll discuss the need for that cooldown further with the combat council, once we've locked in the rest of the design. Wanted to first see how you felt about the overall idea, and see if we can come up with a better solution together. Thanks for raising it!

If we went with the above design, do you think the 18 second cooldown should be retained/adjusted/removed?

7 months ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by caddph

MGod Stu at it again!

First off, thank you for looking at this (and golden bamboo), asking pertinent questions, and providing potential solutions for the community to respond to. This type of interaction is appreciated, and hope to see more of it in the future.

That said, I want to play devil's advocate on suggested changes. Not because I necessarily disagree (I think the proposal is a decent solution to this problem), but I just want to poke at this a bit to see if it's ideal:

  • Is it really a problem for players to be able to gain combat xp doing SW? It requires you to be relatively active, and you are not getting any loot.

  • I think of the sacrifice scrim combined with slayer wildcards which can provide some absurd xp rates at the cost of drops

  • Counterpoint to all this is the SW point farming can be spent on rewards so it's not sacrificing everything per se; Given the prices of rewards, not sure this is necessarily a bad thing (most abusable here would be slayer xp lamps, but as noted above, lots of ways to gain pretty absurd slayer xp as is, with this requiring active play)

  • You also aren't able to leech this content like you could with ED3 farming in a group; requires being solo

  • With recent xp changes, AOE farming mobs is now BiS for any combat xp methods, meaning SW would likely be the BiS farming spot for active gameplay. Do we know what kind of xp rates are attainable here? Maybe we halve or scale the combat xp gained instead of just 0, to still make it good (given you get SW points + full invention xp), but not the ultimate BiS combat xp method.

  • Other positive mutators don't have any downside, so would this slide to a neutral mutator?

Most of this is just "food for thought" and I'd still be happy with 0 combat xp implementation, but wanted to propose some counterpoints/questions.

Much appreciate you assessing this from different angles. Very helpful!

Excellent point about making it a neutral mutator! I'll add that to the design to make sure it gets done.

7 months ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by redbatter

Would converting it from a positive mutator to a neutral mutator affect the chance of it appearing as one of the three options to pick when entering a new world? It's currently available to pick when starting certain sets of worlds, so need to know if converting it from positive to neutral will change that.

Good point. I'll have a look into how the mutators are selected!

7 months ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by legolasvin

One comment Mod Stu u/jagex_stu if I may

Item XP while gained from the damage inflicted, is still a % value of the combat XP gained from killing a monster. I just want to ensure that blocking combat XP gain does not unintentionally block item XP gain too, if the code scenario is something like "if combat XP is gained, also gain item XP"

Excellent point!

Item XP is indeed influenced by the XP value of the monster, but the item XP should be unaffected as it's calculated on damage modified by the potential XP value of the target.

I'd essentially be calculating that XP as normal, so the item XP still does its thing, and then just not giving the combat XP on NPC death if it's a Shattered Worlds mob and Feeling Pumped is active.

7 months ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by GodlikeRage

Fix invention xp rates?

The current invention XP rates in Shattered Worlds are considered to be working as intended. Invention XP is derived from the XP you get from defeating monsters, and combat XP from monsters across the board were rebalanced around the time of Necromancy. This isn't caused or influenced by Feeling Pumped.