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Daemonheim Archeology. Sponge’s proposed expansion to Cooking. Moonstone jewellery. Abyssal Beasts, Lords, Savages. Graphical updates, Housing of Parliamant, Fourth Rex Matriarch, new clue scrolls.

Some of the best content we’ve had over the last couple of years has come out of game jams. It’s great to see these passion projects see the light of day in the live game, truly, but a disappointing byproduct of this is that Jagex now appears to be using gamejams as the sole delivery method of content. As great as some of this stuff has proven to be, it’s all designed and developed on a tiny time and investment budget, despite being billed as headline content whenever it does release.

I can speak only for myself but all of the content listed off above is exactly the kind of stuff I want to see added to the game and gives me faith that the ground-level team still knows exactly what sort of content RS players actually want to see, not endless seasonal events with braindead grinds, Hero Passes and DXP events ad nauseam.

It’s incredibly frustrating that upper management is just attempting to nickel and dime the player base in every possible regard. It’s obvious to anyone with a brain that gamejams can yield great content. Why, why, why is there a refusal to regularly poll which of these updates should enter full development instead of being left to be worked on intermittently over a period of often years until someone finally realises that it’s content worth investing in.

Stop being so frugal when it comes to investing in this stuff, Jagex. MTX is awful. Limited-time events don’t lead to long term growth.

Empower your players and developers instead of sticking your heads in the sand and refusing to believe someone other than yourself knows best.

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9 months ago - /u/JagexJack - Direct link

Originally posted by Capcha616

I don't recall Mod Jack showing up in a Gamejam. He might have made a comment afterward, showing Jagex's interest in approving and implementing such an update.

At least, Mod Jack is not being accredited in the Woodcutter's Grove update:

https://runescape.wiki/w/Woodcutters%27_Grove#Credits

I don't usually have time for game jam, but the baseline tier rebalance was something I put together a while before. I have lots of designs for little reworks knocking about, but it's no easier for me to just make things happen than for anyone else. I try to squeeze them into updates when I can, but the needs of the update itself come first and I also have to be careful about treading on the toes of the developers.

(The reason I pushed hard for the woodcutting changes is that they were blocking multiple other things, like being able to add new hatchets, being able to improve the woodcutting mechanics, etc.)

9 months ago - /u/JagexJack - Direct link

Originally posted by StarryHawk

Because Mod Jack has stated that he wants Runescape to adopt the seasonal update plan. We saw that last year, with the main focus being Fort Forinthry - Necromancy was a sidestep but after that it was right back to Fort.

Community hit lists being so well received should be the first sign for Jagex Leadership. Gamejams, being well received on social media should be the second sign. But hey, more Fort!

Jagex are notorious for burying their heads in the sand, Leadership especially.

I'm very interested in feedback on this. I would say in general that my takeaway is the same as yours, that the emphasis on the fort feels too repetitive across the whole year, and it's not a good approach to continue with.

That said updates can't just be swapped out one for one. If you look at what's happening in a fort update, for example from an environment art point of view, they mostly just add a single building. You can't take an update which is just a single building and use that "budget" to make, for example, a gnome finale or a penguin continuation. We certainly could focus on gnomes, but if we did that, the focus would be on gnomes. It wouldn't (and couldn't) be the gnomes one month and the penguins the next month and the fort the month after that.

A key part of the way I've had to approach thinking about joined up content basically comes down to this maths. Back in the day art was so lo-fi that more or less anything could be put together very quickly, so an update could really be anything the dev could imagine. As our quality and standards have risen, we have to think more about intelligently re-using content across updates. For example I think City of Senntisten does this fairly well (albeit not in retrospect because the dungeon isn't quest locked, but on launch). The quest got an amazing new environment to be excited by, and then the subsequent Nodon Front turned that into a permanent part of the game world you had good reason to spend time in.

The tricky thing about doing it this way it that it requires fairly ruthless top-down direction about what updates are and how they fit together, which kind of directly contradicts with the emphasis of this whole thread, which is that developers left to themselves will do great work. We also ran into an unexpected problem we'd never really had before, which is working on the followup to something before the first part is even out yet, which prevented us from reacting to feedback in the way we normally would. (For example, when the Nodon front came out and we could see the reception, it was too late to make significant changes to the Glacor and Croesus fronts.)

If you compare EGWD, the Legacy of Zamorak updates, and the Fort, you can see various approaches there to synchronising updates together, with varying degrees of success.

This certainly isn't the only possible approach to content we can take, I just want to highlight that it's not being done on a whim, it's trying to solve a specific problem and create better updates.

Similarly my chief concern with the story isn't seasons in and of themselves, but rather than a story should be something that happens and goes somewhere in a reasonable timeframe, rather than something which essentially meanders on indefinitely. Seasons are a means to that end (it essentially forces the story to progress rather than progressing whenever we feel like it - which is exactly what happened to e.g. gnomes).

The feedback here is a bit more mixed, and it's hard to really gather anything meaningfully quantitative on, but my impression is that it leans a bit more towards "we'd rather have a slow paced story that we like than a fast paced story that we don't like".

9 months ago - /u/JagexJack - Direct link

Originally posted by Capcha616

I am not denying it. I am just pointing out his contribution to this project is nothing other than just making a spreadsheet per his own words.

This is essentially correct. I'm not a developer anymore and I'm not currently set up to just jump into game and develop things. That said, don't understate the value of up front designs either.

9 months ago - /u/JagexJack - Direct link

Originally posted by 5-x

How short can a "1 area focus" season be?

My conclusion is that the fort story taking 2 years to unravel is too long (for how minor most of the updates were). I think a slightly more fast-paced 1-year story would hold people's attention more. And then you can do a "year of the desert", "year of gnomes", "year of elemental workshop", etc. Maybe 6 months for a smaller story?

Conceivably yeah. Something like "gnome finale quest plus five months of gnome-themed combat and skilling updates in and around Arposandra" could be feasible as an off the cuff judgement. Kind of like an expansion but split into six parts.

I can't promise anything like that of course as a lot of people have input on what we do.

I'm not sure it's fair to call the fort updates "minor" but I do get what you mean. To an extent I think this isn't really a season problem so much as a skilling update problem. I'm working hard on trying to fix this but it's not trivial to resolve.

9 months ago - /u/JagexJack - Direct link

Originally posted by Thingeh

I think there's a unique issue here.

Fort struck me as a means of solving longstanding issues and 'regrounding' Runescape's story content, whilst Necromancy provided the 'flashy' content.

Necromancy however is a double-edged sword. It's a new combat skill which addressed lots of bug bears (not least new players). But because it is another combat skill, despite being new in many ways and widely used, it is also not-new. And the area that came with it you would not habitually visit. This means that the 'new' stuff in the fort has a lot of weight put on it, perhaps disproportionately so, and feels a bit diminutive.

If I'm honest, I expect this is so unique that there's less to learn from it than may be expected. (Which is not to say that you shouldn't try to learn, obviously.)

However, and I don't mean this in a brow beating way, but I'd suggest the best thing you can actually do, strategically, is announce whatever is coming in the second half of 2024 as soon as possible to prevent the debris of player upset building. I think the angst from the community is because we don't have a clue what's coming, more so than the fort really being all that hated.

This means that the 'new' stuff in the fort has a lot of weight put on it, perhaps disproportionately so, and feels a bit diminutive.

Yeah I think this is spot on.

9 months ago - /u/JagexJack - Direct link

Originally posted by FireTyme

i think you guys should really look at bringing back TAPP. almost all tapp projects were universally loved and created smaller more consistent updates throughout the year.

Gamejam is essentially TAPP but formatted more in the way the devs have asked for. The problem with TAPP is that it was divided up into such tiny blocks of time that it was really hard to get anything done. Gamejam takes more or less the same total time, and blocks it together in a way that's much more effective.