[2019] RuneScape Dev Q&A (Mar 2019) - Comp Cape Rework | Runescape Dev Tracker

Transcript (by Youtube)

0s	hello everyone.welcome we're live as
3s	usual for our Tuesday developer Q&A
5s	stream this is going to be a heavily
7s	focused stream or what we just released
10s	today which was the cotton carry work
11s	development blog there is a lot to talk
15s	about you guys have seen it already if
17s	you haven't seen already Tom runescape
18s	comm do you check that out but wouldn't
21s	be diving into this to say the very
22s	least so to my right I have more Jack
24s	and some I left I have mod breezy don't
30s	want me to light any time I'm a little
31s	light on as you can see that's how you
33s	know or you can just look at the TV is
34s	getting together Breezies first stream
36s	of us well on a dev QA format anyway so
40s	it's awesome to have you on here it
43s	would quickly introduce yourself just
44s	for people who aren't aware yeah I'm
46s	more breezy I was on the mining Smith
49s	and rework that was my first project so
51s	I joined this junior QA last July
53s	working with mod Jack and the four
55s	direction team we're currently doing the
57s	concat we work as we're here for today
59s	and you recently comped and doing the
64s	last handful of things on your Compu
65s	yeah I finally got around to doing so
66s	like doing rocks 120 adg-1 120
71s	dungeoneering Slayer I got just as as
73s	soon as I got 120 Slayer Eevee free came
77s	up that's why I think it's so onto the
79s	Reaper grind alrighty so I'm just we
85s	jump into a couple of footnotes to go
88s	into of course the runescape mobile
89s	Android beta cap or as released last
91s	Tuesday we've had an absolutely immense
94s	amount of downloads already and it's
96s	great to see everyone getting stuck in
97s	so if you want to check it out you can
100s	use the command exclamation mark RS
102s	Mobile I'm pretty sure we only have a
104s	very few amount of slots left and then
105s	it will be full so if you haven't
106s	already grab that as always possible
109s	from the hedge that is ongoing as well
110s	I'm gonna use this opportunity to
112s	mention at the end of the stream when
113s	loot scape is fired out you'll be given
115s	a extra parcel it is uncommon or better
118s	so you might get lucky and get the rare
120s	and you know might get a little bit of
122s	money as well so good luck to you on
124s	that one
124s	so before we jump into the concave
127s	reamer devlog
128s	I want to quickly talk about the Onyx
130s	stuff if that's okay
131s	so yeah yesterday
134s	obviously about 3 p.m. yesterday we hope
136s	fix the ability to get Jim out onyx from
139s	Jim rocks so I just want to kind of use
142s	this opportunity to kind of just quickly
143s	go into why we've done it and then kind
145s	of get on to the topic yeah I think
146s	there were a couple said that so that
148s	broadly there were too many onyx is
150s	coming into game like not too many not
152s	like a few more like a lot more onyx is
155s	coming into game 12,000 person twelve
157s	hundred percent more incredibly it was
162s	it was a reasonable number of per day
164s	and then it was thousands and thousands
165s	and thousands per day so it's not people
167s	are saying well didn't 83 affect the
169s	price and it did he did a little bit
172s	this only effects that price a little
174s	bit more but that's because it was at
175s	the out floor so can I just think so
177s	it's not just easy free to right we're
179s	referring to 81 82 because the D onyx
181s	dust became usually don't really done I
183s	was reading I was reading a player done
184s	a good analysis this this morning that
188s	each each early dungeon saw a spike in
189s	the price of onyx is because people were
192s	using them for deaths and then what go
194s	down he went down again because the
197s	price corrected over time but actually
198s	onyx is we're in a reasonably good place
201s	in terms of supply and demand like they
203s	were coming into the game and they were
204s	going out of the game they were floating
205s	somewhere around double their out price
207s	sometimes lower higher sometimes a
208s	little bit lower so although it looks
211s	like the price only dropped a little bit
213s	because it dropped from like one point
215s	six to one something like that
217s	it was actually like if that wasn't the
220s	outflow they would be worthless because
223s	there are so many in yes so the only
224s	reason they of course are retained that
226s	price the only ones there are room stuff
229s	of course prior to the moment exactly
230s	yeah
231s	now I mean there's a general question
232s	there about like that's why it's a
234s	problem we have no problem with skillers
236s	making one mill an hour that's not a
238s	problem
238s	like we're not nerfing skilling making
240s	one mill an hour the problem is they're
242s	making one mill an hour straight from
244s	raw alcohol price and also at the
246s	expense of the healthy economy of onix's
248s	so like onyx is a bit like we're hoping
250s	the onyx is are gonna recover over time
251s	right now onyx is a ruined and we don't
253s	want onyx is to be ruined like that's
255s	not if we wanted to give skill as money
257s	we wouldn't do it but just picking a bit
258s	of the game and ruining it so in that
260s	regard it was a bug it like it wasn't
262s	about the dropper it was actually the
263s	same the problem is like there's
265s	initially problem with mining and
266s	smithing
267s	we were really focused on mrs. Polly
270s	might just might fall personally sorry
271s	about this not enough people are going
274s	to play this update like all throughout
275s	the whole mining and smithing rework
277s	everyone internally was worried like
279s	we're spending a lot of dev time on this
281s	is it gonna is anyone gonna play it we
283s	were so worried like we didn't actually
284s	go out of our way to like force it to be
287s	good if you see what I mean we didn't
288s	like ruin the game on purpose to get
290s	people to play my n smithing nothing
291s	like that but we were primarily focused
293s	our big concern was not enough people
295s	were going to play it turns out putting
296s	an afk mining method everyone goes and
299s	does it
300s	like just forever so we massively
302s	underestimated how much people will I do
305s	feel like in a way Mobile's kind of
308s	emphasize that a bit more yes I think I
311s	think I'm correct in saying that since
313s	obviously we had the bear cap increase
314s	we had a lot more people using mobile
315s	afk gem rocks as an example so that
318s	might of course added on top of that but
320s	I guess that makes that like if you get
322s	about it that makes sense yes but
323s	genuinely we weren't expecting the sheer
325s	number of people like huge proportion of
328s	population
329s	it's answered like it's answered the
330s	question of like do people want to do my
333s	f k skilling for wealth yes it turns out
334s	they do so now we're gonna because of
336s	this problem about our price like our
338s	King gold is bad there was a suggestion
340s	read it this morning which was can you
342s	just replace it with the first aged coin
343s	which is an item if you're not familiar
345s	with it just asks for a million GP and
346s	that would also be a problem because
347s	gold just pouring in throughout
350s	especially when you can just trivial afk
353s	on multiple accounts now you just sit
356s	there with your six mobile phones just
357s	just farming runescape right like that's
360s	just pouring money into the economy
361s	which is causing the inflation okay so
363s	if I was to give you a suggestion which
365s	I've seen a few times which is why not
367s	allow us to get it cheering trahearne
369s	our only why it might that might work it
373s	might not will have to look at what it
374s	does it that would probably still
377s	produce so many that the supply would
382s	exceed the demand the prog the reason
383s	onyx onyx is specifically or a problem
385s	so I mean if you're familiar with the
386s	money smithing economy you'll see elder
388s	rune is also out price yes that's also a
390s	problem yeah that that's also a problem
394s	that that's our price because that's not
395s	where it's supposed to be and we were in
397s	a big discussion about this last week
398s	and like basically the demand from Smith
401s	thing isn't exceeding the supply for
402s	mining because broadly speaking everyone
404s	is mining but a lot of many people are
407s	smithing so the supplies exceeding a
408s	demand and it's gone wrong and we need
409s	to fix that
410s	it's particularly bad for Onix is
412s	because the price of Onyx is a it's
414s	actually determines the price of death
415s	yes it has a huge knock-on effect on the
417s	whole then obviously when onyx is at
419s	well was that the price of ultras is our
421s	price it meant that arena death cost was
423s	about negligible versus of course dying
426s	normally haven't answered so in that in
428s	that regard making it be a first age
430s	coin would be better because at least it
431s	wouldn't be having a knock-on effect on
432s	the cost of death it would still be bad
434s	to be introducing essentially just
436s	uncapped one mill out gold per hour yep
439s	minor which is tens of thousands yeah
443s	okay cool so to like to reiterate like
446s	we don't want a nurse missing we don't
448s	think that one mill an hour is too good
449s	for smithing we don't want to just
452s	introduce a new alcohol it may be so
455s	because we've got this problem in
456s	general with mining right we don't want
459s	you to just make money through alkyne if
461s	we can possibly help it because it's bad
462s	for the economy but it's not that we
464s	begrudged skill as their 1 millon our
466s	like 1 mill an hour is fine like it
467s	could be it could be higher so we need
470s	to figure out a way of doing that
472s	skillers need to produce something that
474s	people want to buy on the GA and right
476s	now there's a lot of stuff that people
478s	just aren't buying on the G because it's
479s	a like if ously they're buying it cuz
481s	it's an out price it's not as much
483s	that's higher than half the price that
484s	people are buying that we can flood into
486s	game is almost by definition right soon
488s	as we put on not any gem rocks right but
490s	something I can just sit and farm 24
491s	hours a day afk it's gonna flood into
493s	game it's gonna heal out price it's
494s	gonna ruin it
495s	so whatever we provide is gonna have the
498s	same problem there's not trivial problem
499s	to solve cool well obviously I think
501s	that allowed us to go into it much more
503s	than just a post which is great so can
506s	frizzies do you mind moving the cactus I
509s	do apologize because I can't see the
510s	chat properly and I don't want to join
511s	it stop yep there we go slow we're
517s	playing conquest then our ID let's go
520s	into the con cape rework dev vlog
523s	obviously we're at least supposed today
525s	when it says opportunity to I think
528s	should we start with the poll that we
529s	did a few weeks back first of all
532s	or do you want to dive into with us
533s	would you wanna talk about how the
534s	update today went
535s	yeah yeah yeah how did how did released
542s	goin up again I'm really happy
544s	we've had a lot of feedback so far the
546s	initial reception was good
547s	there's obviously there's a lot of
549s	people who have different types of
551s	reservations so some are fine with it
553s	but don't want us to change the
554s	appearance of capes some don't like the
557s	fact that they think we're we're handing
558s	out comp cap and some don't like the
560s	fact of it that's might be nervous so
562s	there's a there's a lot of different
564s	points of feedback but it's all it's
565s	really good to get this type of feedback
567s	on a one already which helps us go into
572s	discussions and you know see how we can
574s	improve it I think we've got a few
575s	things they had today to talk about so a
578s	few weeks back were released two polls
581s	one for non compos one for Campos this
583s	was an opinion polls are correct yeah
585s	there wasn't a girl no there wasn't a
586s	guarantee we abstained from releasing
589s	the results at the time but when I use
592s	this opportunity now to go through the
593s	two polls the individual questions and
596s	then written reveal to you the
597s	percentages for them so you have an idea
600s	of well and then well we'll talk about
602s	how these guys used those results and
605s	went from there so the origin is there's
607s	nothing about surprising in it okay
609s	there weren't any like shock results
610s	where we were like oh my god that makes
612s	the concave why easier to design so I
616s	want to try and cut this down as much
618s	possible some of the questions a very
620s	long waited just to make sure obviously
621s	you all understood it but we'll start
622s	with the poll for non compos the first
625s	question was in relation to you it was
626s	really explained that alone so we ran
628s	two different versions yeah one was if
631s	you've ever owned the comp Cape so
633s	current Campos or X Campos the other one
635s	was everyone else and you were only
637s	eligible for the for one of the two
638s	polls for the questions were the same
639s	about call okay so the first question
642s	was related to the best it's Lakia I at
646s	the tolerantly calm being locked behind
648s	completion ism and we'd like to fix this
651s	and what we should preferred solution
652s	the answers were they should be cosmetic
655s	only or these capes should remain best
657s	and slow or just don't change anything
659s	them for non polos these capes should be
662s	cosmetic only was 32 percent the best
664s	and slot was 41 percent and should
666s	remain best in slot sorry was 41 percent
669s	and 27% said we shouldn't change the way
671s	anything work so overall you have 60% of
673s	people who are non compos saying they
675s	should remain best in slot or not change
677s	whatsoever so did that surprise you in
679s	any way no I don't think so no I guess I
685s	guess we didn't expected to be quite so
686s	high for non compos but no I mean it's a
688s	it's a controversial major changed the
689s	identity of the game right generally
692s	that doesn't go down well mm-hmm
694s	some old updates never had requirements
695s	added to comp and or trim assuming
697s	comments no longer tied should we go
699s	back and have requirements and the
701s	answers were go back and add all the
703s	requirements immediately they had 20%
704s	add the missing requirements but do it
707s	over time had 45% or don't add any
710s	missing requirements had 27% so the
712s	winner for that one was AB done but do
714s	them over time again any no no no it's
717s	just ok copies like yeah which is easier
722s	for us or depends on how you look at it
724s	like it's conceptually easier to just
725s	add them all but actually does work yeah
728s	it could delay the project quite a lot
729s	so actually doing overtime is best for
731s	everyone actually to kind of cut down on
732s	time I'm gonna read the compas results
734s	for questions when I'm hearing that good
735s	will go back and forth 3 4 and 5 so for
738s	question 1 which was in regards to best
739s	in slots for compass compás said that's
743s	what the 22% of compass said they should
745s	remain it should be cosmetic only 29%
747s	said they should remain best in slots
749s	but being easier to get or 49 49 percent
752s	said that we shouldn't change anything
753s	about it so if you compare that don't
756s	change non compos versus compos we have
758s	27 cents versus 49 percent which is I
760s	guess expected conference right that's
762s	consistent across all the questions that
764s	as you'd expect compa said they
766s	preferred not to change you they
767s	preferred to keep their benefits which
768s	is which makes that's fair and for
770s	question 2 regards to requirements being
772s	added over time 26% of kompis said yes
775s	go back and add all the missing
776s	requirements 41% said add them gradually
778s	over time and 33% said and don't miss
781s	any missing don't add any missing
783s	requirements so 1/3 of them there which
786s	is interested so for question 3 should
789s	we write up a consistent definition of
792s	what we should do and shouldn't do on
793s	comp and trim 84% of non compos said yes
797s	we should remove requirements they don't
798s	fit the definition and 16% them and said
800s	no old requirements
802s	never be removed now if we compare that
804s	to the compas 65% the compas said yes
807s	whereas 35% said no yeah I mean the
810s	difference is not surprising the fact
812s	that even compiz a majority said that we
814s	should tidy up the requirements I think
815s	was a bit of a surprise
817s	now we're not we had set them to stick
819s	to how it was we're not gonna interpret
821s	that to authoritative ly mean remove
824s	Castle Wars without like investigating
827s	that question further right so we're not
828s	just gonna look at that because it's
829s	what I promised when we did the poll
830s	we're not gonna look at that and say oh
832s	majority say we should remove castle
834s	walls so we're gonna remove castle walls
835s	cuz we specifically said it's about the
836s	general principle does it fit the does
839s	it fit mechanics does it fit the sorry
841s	does it fit the formal definition and
842s	requirements of the Cade right but there
845s	is a clear majority even among compost
846s	for capes that whose requirements make
848s	sense rather than they'll just have
850s	arbitrary stuff on them cool so for
852s	question for the way keeps it
854s	accomplished from work make people feel
856s	compliance granite new requirements
857s	what's the preferred solution to forget
859s	the Cape back and option one which was a
861s	special caper players who previously
863s	owned the Cape came in at 30% for non
866s	compos a grace periods which allowed
868s	them to wear the Cape while the complete
869s	content was 51% or none this is not a
872s	problem for 18 percent whereas kompis
874s	set 21 percent for a special cape 59
877s	percent for a grace period and 21
879s	percent for not problem at all very
881s	fairly similar so if we look back on the
883s	last time we've did a nap oil is
884s	so-called amnesty is there what if I
886s	can't that was with Slayer 120 with a
887s	mana Faust release what did we learn
889s	from that curiosity
891s	it was massively controversial that was
893s	that the primary thing we learned from
895s	it was it just created a load of agro
897s	half the playerbase were unhappy that we
899s	were doing it the other half the
900s	playerbase were unhappy that we weren't
901s	doing it right or something like that
902s	you know yeah it was very contentious so
906s	that's why we shied away from we haven't
907s	we haven't done it more but the poll
909s	result eclair he shows that people liked
912s	the idea I think the problem with Slayer
914s	was it just kind of came out of nowhere
915s	no one really understood how it worked
917s	what why is there this time in a net so
920s	what we put we put that straight in the
922s	design is is trying to do it in a more
926s	consistent way which we'll get on into
927s	it yeah well we got we have a lot that's
930s	that's the one which is the clearest
932s	smore straightforward result because we
933s	can just do that cool if you want great
935s	spirits we can do great
936s	obviously we got to this question this
938s	is the last question asked in the poll
939s	which was some players consider content
941s	like force group content or very
942s	challenging PBM bosses to be accept
943s	inaccessible for them should content
945s	that's inaccessible beyond caves of
947s	accomplishment this was essentially the
949s	Reaper question correct so we have three
951s	options which was yes but all relevant
953s	content should be on capes and I was 26%
955s	from non compos no but there should be a
957s	separate cape or trim which recognizes
959s	completion of the content which was 50%
961s	from the non compos and no this content
965s	shouldn't be required for any capes or
967s	for the capes and I was 25% for the non
969s	compos now if we look at the compass 40%
972s	of them said all relevant content should
974s	be on the cape
975s	34% of them said there should be a
976s	separate cape or and and 26% says did
980s	this content should not be required
981s	keeps whatsoever that's that's the most
983s	I think that's the one with the biggest
984s	where there's a amongst non compos
986s	there's a majority for put it on a
988s	different cape yeah whereas compost
989s	there's not there's a plurality for keep
991s	everything on the Cape when we sat down
994s	to try to figure out how we would do the
996s	design because the problem is you can
998s	point at one or two specific
999s	requirements but actually when you look
1003s	at like what does comp mean what is it
1005s	so this is taking into account there
1007s	should be consistent requirements right
1008s	if you start start down the path of
1011s	let's say you like your reflect is not
1013s	very good you're not very good at PV on
1014s	content right there's certain things you
1015s	just can't do in-game and that this is
1016s	player type that we support and
1018s	sympathize with there's a lot of content
1022s	in the game you can't do it's not just
1024s	so like and so as soon as we started
1028s	looking at it from that perspective like
1030s	who is actually prevented from
1031s	participating in what content actually
1033s	we'd have to strip a lot Ofcom mm-hm
1036s	so so although there's a majority or a
1039s	slight majority among non compos four
1041s	have a different cape with hard
1044s	achievements on it actually there
1047s	wouldn't be very much on the base cape
1049s	it would basically be max got some
1051s	grindy stuff like livid farm right and
1053s	then any combat really starts coming
1055s	into like this is a more difficult cape
1057s	and that actually affects mini games it
1059s	affects what was it was everyone with
1061s	came up with a surprise net scant what
1063s	it was i mean you know you got me
1064s	necessarily max if you're like i can't
1066s	do any hard ppm you can't complete all
1068s	quests because you can't kills
1069s	okay you can't do engineering unless we
1071s	are leaching which if you're leaching
1073s	then you can do anything right
1075s	what sorry bar a few set of things so so
1079s	actually we couldn't make it is not like
1080s	I was very much on the side of letter to
1082s	gates let's have it's out a hard K pin
1084s	anything not easy gate and so a hard
1086s	cape and a cape that doesn't require you
1088s	to do reflex based activities and
1089s	actually when we sat down and started
1090s	trying to design what that Cape will do
1092s	it like he didn't make sense cool right
1095s	okay let's get into why we're doing this
1097s	then so we've obviously as a real
1098s	mention we had the release earlier on
1099s	today that that fog so if I was to try
1102s	and get you guys to try and somewhat
1104s	summarize why are we reworking this now
1108s	how what would you be able to say for
1111s	that so the first dev blog that what
1115s	Jack is written up I think like talks
1118s	about some of these issues so I think
1119s	there were four main points which are
1121s	problems which we also copied into the
1125s	design document as well the first one is
1128s	comp being tied to best in slot stats
1130s	and benefits so you get you get people
1134s	players who are chasing it for the stats
1137s	and for the bill for the abilities and
1139s	not because they like completion ism
1141s	right they don't they don't like live it
1142s	form they don't like play on farm they
1144s	actual just want a PDF h1 a teleport and
1145s	stuff but we're making them slave for
1148s	all these other achievements just to get
1149s	this cape which is bestest though I
1152s	forgot like what
1154s	what are they coming they the second
1157s	problem was the consistency of the
1160s	requirements oh yeah sorry
1165s	got my two word version now guys what
1167s	you do what vision yeah yeah I just I
1169s	summarized them into well see okay I
1171s	can't read rain so the second issue is
1176s	inconsistent requirements that being
1180s	that like maybe years ago we with habit
1182s	for example live with firemen whatnot
1184s	right
1184s	but winter and farms came out there's no
1186s	requirement for platforms that only
1188s	comic rotten we have with flavor in
1189s	farmers the music track and obviously
1191s	music only came from the seasonal wiser
1193s	so there was a mythic on the Phineas is
1195s	what I mean to that point I mean I think
1197s	it's safe to say sometimes it's very
1199s	scary to add a complex to content
1200s	because it affects play obsessions it
1202s	can ruin the okay
1203s	you look at a meaningless to perfect
1205s	examples right now the reaper shop
1207s	update we did in January 2018 or 2017
1210s	finish 2018 where we added a load of new
1212s	reap rewards when he made it added them
1214s	to the trim completion escape because
1216s	some people had spent all the Reaper
1217s	points on Heydrich they didn't expect
1218s	anything new coming they don't have to
1220s	do so many Reapers to then get that trim
1222s	completion this requirement damn that
1224s	affected the sentiment of that contents
1226s	and any other one I believe was the
1228s	initial release of the our Islands
1230s	contents which had some complex which
1233s	was very time gating we got to the FAU
1236s	output in to get there and that of
1237s	course hurts their perception of our
1238s	contents so yeah it's at that point yes
1241s	the second that's tied into the grace
1243s	periods problem yes if it's a grind it's
1245s	not just I have to do calm I have to do
1248s	this grind I don't want to do to get my
1249s	comeback it's also I can't pvm until
1251s	I've done this yes you're just slamming
1253s	out this growing in this few days as
1254s	possible so you can get back to PBM am I
1256s	am i different to the norm then I mean I
1257s	I'm really close to calm I would love
1260s	the stats but like it's not a it's not
1264s	literally it's not a you know you'd
1267s	literally mean yeah yeah yeah it's it's
1270s	just the addition that's how some
1271s	players think so a lot of players think
1272s	when you when you're win all ten of your
1274s	presets are suddenly messed up because
1276s	you don't have concave anymore and then
1277s	you have to like it's fair fix them all
1278s	up with max Cape that can be annoying
1281s	and I guess like I've heard from people
1284s	that certain might pay woody teams and
1286s	stuff like look why are you kept calm I
1287s	don't know how true that is it's also
1289s	just it's an efficiency mentality
1290s	honestly I'm just I'm just gonna say
1292s	this right now and I think that left
1294s	come and get this camera right honestly
1295s	if you are looking you literally need a
1299s	calm cape to join for a OD that is BS
1302s	and you can take that from me literally
1304s	I think that absent nonsense takes up
1307s	because if that's the case I can do a OD
1308s	but I can do it so honestly anyway I
1312s	wanted this like thought for the day
1313s	with Shawnee seriously nonsense we
1316s	should suppose about every time hash tag
1318s	truth anyway if we go into the the third
1323s	one which is problematic requirement so
1326s	this is where my Jack mentioned cattle
1328s	Wars and we have I read stuff about that
1330s	of course effects like the perception of
1333s	a comp so II D free we have a course
1337s	just brought outs there's that repo
1339s	requirement and some people can get
1341s	through bosses one and two and then some
1342s	people struggle on the ambassador okay
1344s	I'm never getting compact now because I
1345s	can't do it even being you know in a
1347s	group it can be that problem so I can
1349s	like understand of course where that
1350s	perception comes from as well
1351s	yep and the fourth one is the lack of
1354s	objective staying for so what
1357s	specifically do we mean by that when you
1359s	when you max there is suddenly like the
1362s	next tangible step up from that in terms
1366s	of a cape in terms of something visual
1367s	that you can get is calm and then there
1370s	doesn't seem to be anything like in
1372s	between that yeah you can go for one
1373s	twenties you can get two hundred mils
1375s	but there's nothing that you know that
1376s	does it like there's nothing set in
1377s	stone Nora is a runescape white like
1380s	like being maxed is really quite being
1382s	comped is risky quite that's
1385s	particularly true in the context of like
1386s	and of a problematic wine so if you're
1388s	not going to get Reaper if you've
1389s	decided that you can't or won't do
1391s	certain hard requirement what's the
1393s	point doing anything you're maxed so
1395s	like there isn't anything to aim for
1397s	actually there's something I want to
1398s	make very clear which is everything
1400s	we're mentioning toward the mouth is
1401s	subject to change is not final so
1405s	obviously would get to it where some of
1407s	the topics that come up with people like
1408s	please don't remove XY and Z we will get
1410s	into that but I just limit that very
1411s	clear
1412s	this is to change this can change it is
1414s	not final but the main Phineas is that
1416s	these guys are looking for your feedback
1417s	to try and make this the best it can be
1418s	custom it's mine inspection in that
1420s	regard right now how gasps how it was
1422s	done this one this is it's it's a it's a
1424s	more controversial less complex update
1427s	the money I think so hoping to get like
1428s	more feedback okay so let's jump into it
1431s	so the first bit in regards to this
1433s	there's one more thing to say about
1434s	objectives as well I don't think we
1436s	actually put this in the document it
1437s	also applies at the other end if you've
1438s	got comp if you've got trim comp
1440s	well they're not know what you do so
1442s	actually like there's room the scope to
1443s	expand upwards as well and we've kind of
1445s	tried to design that in it okay so
1447s	applies in both directions people people
1448s	who don't have comp and people who do
1450s	have comp order we have to do okay so
1452s	let's get into how you guys are gonna
1455s	plan its tackle us which will start with
1457s	the improved achievements and new capes
1459s	so the pitch was to change the
1462s	achievement categories into skills
1464s	combat law exploration minigames and
1466s	miscellaneous
1468s	and then you would bring them into what
1471s	you consider to be tears so let's go
1472s	into Lord he is First Lord
1474s	so we can't wait we can't definitively
1476s	say what's in the tears yeah sure so
1478s	that what we're pitching is that
1479s	there'll be three tears per category
1483s	which is roughly equivalent to sort of
1486s	comp trim calm and then insane comp or
1489s	true comp or whatever you want to think
1492s	like like reasonable completion is emoji
1496s	vement s-- crazy completion your
1497s	achievements and then insane yeah insane
1499s	completions of achievements so until we
1502s	sit down and actually plot our plan is
1504s	to write down every single thing you
1505s	could do in the game one post-its and
1506s	then I put them all up on the wall and
1508s	basically lay out the capes like that
1509s	but until we actually sit down and do
1511s	that there's no way we can definitively
1512s	say what isn't isn't inner tear because
1514s	it might be that we say what all this is
1515s	obviously in Tier one and all this is
1517s	obviously in Tier three and then we
1518s	check in actually there's nothing in
1519s	tier 2 so I have to change the plan so
1522s	your plan in the sense is like the Metra
1525s	treatments right to indicate the tiers
1527s	as it goes so far just use what you
1528s	published today as an example you
1531s	mentioned the t1 law could require all
1533s	quest to be complete and thus replace
1535s	the quest cope co2 law could replace a
1537s	require all the many amperes quest
1539s	achievements plus of course tier one
1540s	being done and then tear-free could
1542s	require the rest of the low category
1543s	mints and all of the law books plus tier
1546s	two law yeah now obviously as we just
1549s	said we haven't we haven't yet energy
1550s	check that of course that plan might not
1552s	actually make sense because we haven't
1553s	said that one so can we talk about MCC I
1555s	guess while we're obviously that was
1557s	some of the points that came up from the
1558s	release yes a lot of a lot of the capes
1562s	do map onto existing capes okay what
1565s	we've labeled tier 1 skilling is
1566s	effectively the max game and so I could
1569s	still have an MCC and walk around with
1571s	the MCC and Stefan well so so there's
1573s	been some internal disagreement about
1574s	whether or not the old capes still
1575s	exists like so the design says we're
1579s	going to be removing because it doesn't
1580s	like so we've got this new framework
1581s	where there's 18 there's not there's not
1583s	18 capes there's 18 sort of achievements
1585s	18 meta achievements and then of those 9
1588s	F capes because we don't think the other
1589s	nine actually need capes and then that
1592s	effectively replaces the current system
1594s	of max quest cape Master Quest cape and
1596s	so on so in the design we've specified
1598s	that we're going to be removing the old
1599s	ones we are interested in people sleep
1601s	back on
1602s	I so let us know because there's some
1604s	internal disagreement about how we
1605s	should be handling I think you've been I
1606s	mean is there any harm and keeping them
1608s	as like a prestige fit in that sense I
1611s	mean well that's kind of how we try to
1613s	handle all the existing competition Cobb
1615s	is even like keepsake enough to keep
1617s	their meanness like legacy the problem
1618s	in this case is because they are
1619s	essentially identical like that unlikely
1622s	to be any difference between the quest
1623s	cape and the tier one law cape mhm
1625s	now it could be that we can just call
1627s	the tier 1 locate the quest gate right
1629s	but then doesn't have as its appearance
1631s	work we need to make nine capes like we
1635s	sat down and tried to map it out and
1636s	they don't work like it's quite
1639s	difficult for us to make a tiered set of
1641s	capes that makes logical sense it's it's
1642s	very weird in the case of like the max
1644s	Cape right if you make it so if if you
1646s	see that here the if you see here one
1650s	this is the max cape and then you would
1653s	think that tier two Cape then is some
1656s	form of like extra version of that but
1658s	currently that's what con cape is right
1659s	yeah and they're visually yeah yeah so
1662s	visually that's what happens so that's
1663s	that's one of the issues but I mean
1665s	ideally want the tier 2 scaling cake to
1666s	look like an improved version of the
1668s	tier 1 yeah the other but it doesn't
1670s	make sense yeah the other point of this
1671s	of this or even internally is how we
1674s	handle retro stuff
1677s	yeah retractable yeah so it's a it's no
1679s	no you mean retro graphics yes
1682s	so it's discussion about how we handle
1683s	that and if we can't get that way or not
1685s	or you know if yeah if if the mark if
1689s	the current is physically the current
1690s	appearance of the max cape quest Cape
1692s	most of course Kate really matters to
1694s	you then then last night give me yeah
1695s	does it matter
1696s	matters to me I've got them but I can
1698s	imagine it matter in to me I mean I've
1701s	got concave I've got my scape I want
1702s	them to stay so I like like when we talk
1704s	about this in the theme I hate saying I
1707s	would like we're gonna remove it I hate
1708s	that but I can't go against you know
1710s	sort of everything else that's happening
1712s	so we kind of have to take you guys's
1714s	feedback and take it to the table and
1716s	say this is what the players have given
1719s	us we need to work with that I'm gonna
1721s	be able to chat kind of see what I've
1722s	made it quite clear yes yeah I mean
1725s	somewhat I can see yeah anyway I feel
1728s	like there's kind of a mean Stein we've
1731s	don't touch down QC in caps or like
1734s	keeping it but I don't know I know
1735s	perception and quite surprised actually
1738s	that people like mqc more than max cape
1740s	because I thought people would like it
1741s	more because you can recover
1742s	yeah but the defenders of the mqc is
1744s	that it's very unique color and Paykel
1747s	yes style in regard to the trail you get
1749s	yeah I think it's a really pretty cape
1750s	to be fair yeah okay that's good this is
1754s	this is this excites me this bit the non
1756s	stack Cape bonuses section now in short
1759s	you can read all of this in a doc but
1762s	I'll try and summarizes the best I can
1763s	but what their pitches here is
1766s	essentially benefits are on capes for
1769s	example if you look at the completion
1770s	escape you have the spirit Cape insider
1772s	you can add the bone sack eda charrids
1775s	fin avers accumulated saw so all that
1778s	stuff we take that away from the cake
1781s	correct and then we put it on to birth
1783s	everything everything so in essentially
1787s	passives yeah which is awesome only
1790s	we'll need to look at the exact
1791s	implementation that it might be you need
1793s	to unlock it again it might be you have
1795s	it unlocked automatically it might be
1796s	that there's a new reward that allows
1798s	you to unlock it but however we get
1799s	there the idea is that you'll get you
1802s	won't you won't need to wear the comp
1803s	cape to get all those benefits at the
1804s	same time because you'll be able to get
1806s	all those benefits at the same time
1807s	regardless so if you complete animal
1809s	magnetism you have a bazooka Malaya and
1811s	of course your calm capes you're not
1812s	gonna benefit from that effect unless
1814s	you currently have aim as a litter then
1817s	you can just have it a cape and you have
1819s	that as a passive storm like a probably
1820s	it would know we like the way the way I
1822s	think about is it's just no longer
1823s	anything to do the capes it's just this
1826s	is just your bonus so in regards to coz
1828s	we assume it in combat balancing anyway
1829s	right so like that's the thing it
1831s	doesn't really make any difference okay
1832s	but in regards to teleport stats on the
1834s	capes lot probably you okay yeah yeah
1837s	well as well have to look like is but
1840s	but it but it is dependent on the capes
1842s	so for example like I think we're having
1844s	discussions today about the fire cape
1845s	and the passive that you get or not
1847s	passive but when you wear a fire cape
1849s	and then you can kill ice trike worms
1850s	should that be on all capes or just
1852s	marking and the thinking is that because
1855s	it's specific and each to the fire cape
1856s	it should probably stay where one of the
1858s	few tactically make sense yeah so it's
1861s	such a niche benefit
1862s	yeah it's something we have to decide
1864s	for each and every single benefit that
1865s	comes from quests or whatever that's on
1867s	the comp Cape right now
1868s	the general principle is to remove that
1870s	problem from the complicate by making it
1873s	less of an issue because you'll have all
1875s	these benefits anyway and obviously as I
1877s	mention because there are a lot of
1880s	right-click option for capes there is
1882s	suggest suggestion for implementing some
1884s	sort Cape customization interface you
1885s	can decide what goes on that'll be part
1887s	like if we need to implement that we
1889s	will sure if if it ends up with an
1891s	overwhelming number of options on it
1892s	then we'll just sort that out with an
1894s	interface right it's good to keep stats
1896s	this is where we're gonna get into the
1897s	Nitty Gritty because obviously stats are
1899s	very you know important for people
1900s	understandably so I'll just read the
1904s	first paragraph which I think kind of
1905s	summarizes what you guys are trying to
1907s	do very well here which is stats are
1909s	useful for combat we feel is incorrect
1910s	to force you to do things like farming
1912s	or mage training arena yeah that's me
1914s	right now in order to get the stat
1915s	benefit from the comp Cape this again
1917s	ties into problem one which is too many
1918s	benefits tied to the concave so the
1921s	pitch here is it's it's similar to what
1925s	to the previous point so rather than
1928s	having the complicate be an object with
1930s	really good stats instead so I'm gonna
1933s	over simplify and say something that's
1934s	not quite correct but that's sake of
1936s	keeping a straight forward if you've
1937s	unlocked the concave then instead you
1939s	get a passive stat bonus which then
1942s	stacks with the Cape that you're wearing
1944s	so if I have now what the reason what I
1947s	said was incorrect is it's not anymore
1949s	again our proposal about unlocking comp
1951s	it's about unlocking any of the tier 1
1954s	meta achievement ok so it was two
1956s	aspects to it ok so give me some values
1958s	that you get if you compete tier 1 sure
1964s	ok so if it gives us 11 Armour that
1967s	would then be added on top of you don't
1969s	worry whatever you're wearing in your
1971s	cape stock ok that's another I mean we
1973s	haven't we haven't really down as one of
1974s	the major problems because it's not that
1975s	big a deal but it's something we'd like
1976s	to fix the existence of the comp cape
1978s	means you no longer care about cape
1979s	drops does matter ok because you're
1981s	wearing the calm cape and that's a shame
1982s	like that's not that we want to take
1984s	away your sense of accomplishment or
1986s	your bonuses right but the way that it
1989s	is implemented because there is this
1991s	physical kpop that physics that has
1992s	stats that are really good means that
1995s	your cape no longer matters which means
1997s	we haven't we just don't make a we can't
1998s	we can't go there's no point making any
2000s	yes we can't go beyond either we can
2001s	something that's better than current
2003s	comp cake because it's like well you
2004s	just took everything yeah exactly right
2006s	so then we just have to buff the stats
2007s	on comp to compensate so then you still
2009s	wouldn't wear than you came so basically
2010s	we'd release in you cape and all that
2011s	would do is puff comp yeah so so by
2012s	implementing it in the way that it's a
2014s	stacking benefit on top of your cake
2016s	means capes matter and comp matters and
2020s	in the second part of that fixes rather
2021s	than tying it to comp we're tying it to
2024s	any tier one achievement category so
2028s	that's basically Max or quest or Reaper
2032s	or posture like we need to think about
2034s	like if we do the misc category and it
2036s	turns out the misc tier one is
2038s	absolutely trivial and it's basically
2039s	nothing in there then obviously we
2040s	wouldn't give you the stats for that
2041s	right so well this is all subject to
2043s	like working out how actually is not
2045s	broadly speaking the idea is that you
2046s	can focus on one area of the game and
2049s	get your best in slot Cape starts from
2050s	that you don't have to go to a living
2052s	farm if you're actually yeah so like if
2054s	you if you are purely a pvn player you
2057s	could get the combat Tier one
2058s	achievement and then you don't have to
2061s	touch any scaling any
2064s	minigames right content yeah yeah and
2067s	you may want to because there were a
2068s	rewards attached great but you're not
2069s	forced to just to have I think the
2072s	important thing to make clear is how
2075s	does so obviously we're talking about
2077s	right now and just talking about it
2079s	there is a lot going on here there's all
2080s	these different variations and so on and
2082s	so forth so how does that how is that
2084s	communicated in-game now how are there
2086s	like to have ideas how that can be done
2088s	I've taught my head no we'll just we'll
2091s	have to put it somewhere yeah don't have
2093s	to because there's actually some passive
2094s	buffs that came in with my knee and
2095s	smithing as well that are kind of hidden
2096s	yeah well and there are a few in-game
2098s	it's not very many but there's a few
2099s	passive buffs we might we might just
2101s	need a screen that shows you the pass it
2102s	off to it it might be part of an
2103s	achievement like metamath achievement I
2105s	was like have you unlocked all these
2107s	passes on your player but I mean that's
2109s	a fair point is is upon like right now
2111s	it's not visual yes see what's like have
2113s	I got a vers have I got this very Cape
2114s	have I got explains that we might need
2117s	to have just introduced like a passive
2118s	like we wouldn't want to put them all on
2119s	the buffer oh no that'd be overwhelming
2121s	so so we might need just some screen
2124s	where you you can see so someone said
2126s	the chat okay so what if I complete tear
2127s	free of all can I get one cape for all
2129s	capes
2130s	wait what that's what I just read if you
2134s	have one tear free capes you
2135s	the theory concave is there like a so
2139s	there's a cape for three of the six
2141s	achievement each tier if you've got all
2145s	six achievements you have the concave
2146s	about it we can get probably a new
2150s	concave now actually as I headed so in
2153s	short with this is to address problem
2156s	for which is a lack of stuff to work
2158s	towards once you get comp you mentioned
2160s	this office earlier on the stream so the
2163s	pitch list is to add three new comp
2164s	capes which have the generic name of
2166s	tier 1 tier 2 or tier 4 yeah I'm sure
2168s	this naming isn't final yeah yeah just
2170s	trying to make it easy to understand at
2172s	the moment we can call it like the
2173s	Grandmaster you know big-haired conquer
2176s	like we can give it a good name later
2179s	but for now it's like there's three
2181s	tiers right yes the tier 1 cape in the
2183s	city of Copan is a tier 3 go so in short
2185s	presumably they each have a matter that
2188s	you have to get you get they just need
2190s	to do all the categories so you if you
2191s	get all the tier 1 categories you get
2192s	the two on copying if you do all the
2194s	tier 2 you can't agree to concave which
2196s	is we think is roughly equivalent to
2197s	trim possibly slightly easier possibly
2199s	slightly harder this is what we haven't
2201s	sat down and blur it in practice is
2202s	probably likely to be a bit more work
2204s	but no individual achievement will be as
2206s	hard as 5 K cos that's fine as my
2208s	intuition that's definitely not final
2210s	but I suspect we take off the most
2211s	ridiculous stuff but possibly add on a
2213s	few more things that aren't as
2214s	ridiculous and then there'd be tier 3
2216s	comp which is probably significantly
2219s	harder than current rim again without
2221s	having actually sat down and applied now
2223s	that's that's the intuition of what it
2225s	mystic semi already be in here but tiles
2227s	wise are you gonna do stuff about tiles
2229s	when it comes to because obviously right
2231s	now we have the to tie it was just
2232s	completionist what free completion is
2233s	completion completion is with a gold
2236s	trim and also the master quest though so
2238s	we guess like it's not as important so
2241s	we haven't fought but I would I would
2243s	expect they're probably in title
2244s	associated yeah I guess more from a
2246s	visibility perspective I guess so if
2248s	they're sick because the title costs are
2249s	so little to develop like capes are
2251s	actually you surprise capes are Ashley
2252s	quite expensive which is partly why we
2253s	don't want to add in the 9 capes for the
2255s	categories we think plants don't really
2256s	care about
2257s	so like scaling questing PV I'm really
2259s	matter right but there's no harm us
2261s	adding like a minigame title each tier
2263s	and then obviously a comp can have a
2265s	title at each tier and they may be the
2267s	existing titles or they may be slightly
2268s	different titles
2269s	depending on on how that works all right
2272s	that's know like if the exact existing
2275s	title is really important tell us that
2277s	and we'll make sure that there's a way
2278s	to get the exactly existent oil and
2281s	again this the important thing like just
2282s	tell us but as you know we have this
2284s	court we're on the official runescape
2286s	disco Channel server where the channels
2288s	we have set up laminate on bass is very
2289s	important to have a 15 channels come in
2291s	coming up yeah there's a lot okay grace
2294s	periods this is where we're gonna get
2296s	fun here so definition of grace period
2299s	is taught is time from yeah you know
2302s	when the content comes out you you don't
2303s	lose your cape immediately basically I
2305s	have a bit of time to get UK back and
2308s	what we've pitched is rather than each
2310s	update you have say a month to get your
2312s	comp back instead because that's quite
2314s	hard to keep track of what came out when
2316s	and how long you do it we'd have to
2317s	create some ingame interface showing you
2319s	how long you have what we've proposed
2322s	instead is every three months or every
2324s	six months there's a day and on that day
2328s	you lose your comp if you haven't quite
2329s	so everything that came out in the last
2332s	three month period or six month period
2333s	depending on how frequently they are
2335s	you've got until that day to do it
2337s	Wow and what we'd expect is that that
2339s	would be after a big update not just
2343s	before a big update that make sense did
2344s	we released a new skill we wouldn't then
2347s	just have what we're calling this
2349s	lockdown right we wouldn't have that
2350s	like the week after because then you
2352s	only have a week or if we did it like it
2354s	could be that you know lockdown week
2355s	scheduled and then a new seal comes out
2357s	and like well the skill has to come out
2358s	just before the lockdown weeks just the
2359s	way it works in which case we wouldn't
2362s	tie to that log down we we'd say no you
2363s	can do it you can do it three months
2365s	later or six months later or whatever so
2367s	in the idea is you just you know how
2368s	long you've got you know you've got
2370s	until whatever yeah you've got into a
2373s	gene to get all this done that's a
2374s	little too long I think three months is
2378s	okay I think six months might be a tough
2379s	I think three months is a massive
2380s	problem as to why we had the metaphorce
2382s	criticism mostly from my experience of
2386s	the launch of menopause all the way up
2387s	until September when we removed the Cape
2389s	the free month time frame I think was
2392s	considered too long I think free months
2394s	is a little too long for someone who is
2397s	dedicated to keeping their Cape I think
2399s	three months is
2400s	little too lenient bad and that's maybe
2402s	my personal perception it works I mean
2404s	because the capes would all be split
2405s	down as well you know like that will
2409s	have an effect I mean I'm sorry I'm not
2410s	disagreeing with you that will have an
2412s	impact on the matter of the metagame
2414s	of you know a quest comes out but I
2417s	didn't lose my skill and cape new
2420s	skilling update comes out but I didn't
2421s	lose my quest cape and you keep your
2423s	stats and that will have a big impact on
2426s	the way that players respond to updates
2427s	so just looking at the chat look at the
2430s	numbers there frohnen some people say in
2431s	one months I'm saying two weeks one week
2433s	so obviously it's very variant I'm
2436s	seeing one month commonly at the moment
2439s	but I mean again this is and what I love
2442s	about for this is that it shows how
2444s	passionate people are about stuff for
2446s	this because of the different opinions
2448s	and everyone getting stuck in and stuff
2449s	but you know and this is why we have
2451s	this stream as well just so we can have
2452s	these kind of discussions where think is
2453s	very important the the product the
2454s	product the absolute primary purpose of
2456s	having grace periods at all you just so
2458s	you can do content with your comp cape
2460s	on right boy to press that problem like
2462s	breathing do a quest while wearing the
2464s	quest cake you can do you know like so
2466s	it to an extent the exact length of time
2469s	isn't that important it's more the
2470s	principle you don't have to do it on
2472s	there yeah I think the length of time
2473s	can be important depending on what is in
2475s	that call oh yeah sorry I just learned
2477s	that is super negotiable yeah yes
2479s	like assuming that we all agree and I
2481s	like I can see it's following this
2483s	directly write the like assuming we all
2484s	agree that I mean to be honest the
2486s	survey came back pretty overwhelmingly
2487s	in favor of grace periods so it doesn't
2489s	seem very controversial but assuming
2492s	that we all agree there are grace
2493s	periods we can then negotiate how long
2495s	those great spirits are absolutely yeah
2496s	cuz that's not that my best literally
2498s	just exchanging a number in code so it's
2500s	really like we could be like we could
2501s	forget to pull it and then be like the
2503s	day before launch be like oh wait hang
2505s	on we need to make it one month we need
2506s	to change it I mean we shouldn't because
2507s	of testing but you know what I mean it's
2509s	not a difficult thing to change so it's
2510s	not a big deal if we need to cool all
2513s	right that was that I enjoyed that
2514s	discussion breeze the prison is anything
2515s	you want to chime in before I jump on to
2517s	the next bit or right not really that's
2521s	fine I mean I mean it's quite like it
2523s	can always depend on when content comes
2526s	out like you can have months where
2529s	nothing goes on calm camp like we
2531s	currently have although I think I hope
2532s	put rework that that's not the case
2534s	if I look at complicate requirements I
2537s	mean if we look at this year see we
2540s	added the to my name's Smith and ones
2541s	here one for mining and the one for
2544s	sniffing yeah and of course added a
2545s	quest via the web we're added two quests
2549s	since that time yeah Reaper had and then
2551s	visit migrate nothing apart from mine
2555s	inspecting nothing new yeah yeah yes so
2557s	like you require Reapers just they're
2559s	inherently twice are just they're
2560s	inherently nothing new comes up so it is
2563s	almost trivial Ansari is almost trivial
2566s	in a sense to is to like why actually
2568s	comes out within a time frame so if we
2570s	say six months Internet six months only
2572s	three different achievements rather well
2574s	but also post post post comp a really
2576s	well I think we'd expect to be adding
2577s	but expecting we intentionally
2578s	low-balled the mining and smithing
2580s	concave because if we wanted to think a
2582s	lot more on but there were so many yeah
2583s	yeah we wanted people to spend like five
2585s	hundred respects or some things yes not
2587s	very much and that's nothing that's
2588s	that's one of the other poems that sort
2589s	of makes us want to do Chris periods is
2591s	is the negative sentiment and sort of
2594s	complaints about new content like people
2596s	having to rush play on forums just to
2598s	get music means that they can't just
2599s	enjoy Lauren farms like if you wanna go
2601s	to plural forms a month after has come
2603s	out whereas no you need to like rush it
2606s	I want to get out I have to spend
2608s	millions to buy all these dragons to
2610s	farm the money to going at the season
2612s	Iser to get that break and then just go
2614s	back to when doing I can't come back at
2615s	different time yeah
2616s	whereas grace periods kind of help if we
2618s	had yeah that grace period like said
2621s	then we would kind of have you'd have
2624s	that time to enjoy the content yeah same
2625s	time of course not feeling like you have
2627s	to rush because I need my Cape back
2629s	because I want to do my PBM because my
2631s	stats or presets or whatever so yeah to
2634s	that point I can definitely see the
2635s	advantages of a grace period on the on
2638s	the other hand I just want to like slide
2640s	it in there people I've I've I've heard
2642s	players also say that they don't they
2643s	don't want grace periods because they
2645s	like not seeing calm capes or you know
2647s	whatever capes are like after a big
2649s	update they want to see who can race to
2651s	get did oh yeah yeah the calm cape like
2653s	after saw like I'm pretty sure that they
2654s	were always the last people I think the
2656s	content itself can do that right the
2660s	first person you see wandering around
2661s	the new pet or the first person you see
2662s	wandering round with the new
2663s	yeah yeah Wow you know it already
2665s	achieves that I think sure yeah that's
2667s	true
2667s	if my skimming skills are on points
2669s	debatable from what I can see in 2018 we
2673s	only were skimming yeah it's not like
2675s	we've got skimming skills no I can only
2679s	see that we only if we added less than
2681s	10 comp record new comp requirements in
2683s	2018 if so and that's exactly what we
2686s	mean about Thanks what is it point three
2688s	or whatever point two we had easy 1 & 2
2690s	so like that's Reaper as a new yeah
2694s	literally new fin yes and so if if we
2698s	did put in your achievements on them
2699s	there could be something yeah but they
2700s	just had to go on Reaper so I mean it's
2703s	a fascinating thing
2704s	freeze okay here we go freezing existing
2707s	comp ensuring home capes so so this is
2710s	where the biggest the biggest
2712s	controversy here is don't take away my
2714s	concave don't take one which room
2715s	concave and I that's totally fair like
2717s	we totally understand people work really
2718s	really hard for their trim comp cakes
2721s	right you've just comped right yeah like
2724s	I'm not sure I'm comped right the people
2726s	have got trim comped they worked hard
2728s	and they shouldn't have that taken away
2729s	right we understand that we're talking
2730s	about recategorize and things talk about
2732s	shop and stuff around we don't we like
2735s	it's not it's not fair to take our way
2737s	okay so if this up they came out let's
2739s	say let's take use me as an example I'm
2741s	five contracts away from the game
2742s	completions cake yeah you then bring out
2744s	the concave rework and revamped
2746s	everything can I still walk towards ya
2747s	that oh yeah so what what we're planning
2749s	to do is take the existing comp cape and
2751s	trim comp Cape keep them exactly as they
2755s	are when the rework comes out okay and
2756s	then they'll just be there still anyone
2760s	who's got them and still got them anyone
2761s	who's almost got them are still almost
2762s	got them you can keep working away on
2764s	the wrecks they just sat there no that's
2767s	okay exactly as they are now yeah that
2769s	we wouldn't add new requirements to them
2771s	no so once you want let's say we release
2774s	this tomorrow then the final contract we
2777s	would have had exactly what we know okay
2779s	right I mean you might still need to get
2781s	Reaper if a new boss comes out okay yeah
2783s	we won't be adding any random ones like
2785s	a new smithing one that says go and make
2787s	master work we wouldn't do that yes
2789s	theoretically then the final one is the
2791s	mine in Smith and ones if it was
2793s	realesed water yeah okay and
2796s	just to sort of put put on that point if
2799s	you currently have trim comp you pray
2802s	much qualify like again it's not it's
2805s	not definite yet but you will definitely
2807s	qualify for some of those at least 301
2811s	if you've got your pro if you've got
2813s	comp now you'll probably have compost
2814s	post rework anyway yeah sorry the new
2816s	the new Tier one comp yep
2818s	you probably you might be like a little
2819s	bit off it if you depending on what gets
2821s	shuffled around but you be close yeah
2823s	and I think it's safe to say maybe the
2825s	same with trim cotton but again we don't
2826s	know that so he can't we can't say that
2828s	for absolute yeah but that's kind of
2829s	what we're aiming for we don't want
2830s	there to be a situation where you're
2831s	currently comped and then the complicate
2832s	rework comes out and you don't have the
2834s	new comp cape and it's like hundreds of
2836s	hours of work and you're like what the
2838s	hell is up there we don't want to do
2839s	that so we're not planning to do it
2841s	right okay that's against controversial
2842s	requirements in regards to Reaper and
2846s	cattle Wars so as I mentioned earlier
2849s	like we looked at what comp without
2852s	Reaper would mean and it sort of doesn't
2855s	make sense we we started trying to
2857s	divide up what would it like if you
2861s	conceptually divided runescape into
2863s	achievements that anyone can do given
2865s	enough time and achievements that
2868s	certain players can't do even given the
2869s	large amount of time you've got all
2872s	these hard achievements in combat not
2875s	much of it outside of combat so except
2878s	in as much as that there's combat in
2879s	quests and stuff like that but actually
2881s	there's nothing in combat that isn't
2884s	like that okay because there aren't the
2887s	achievements tied to like farming abbey
2889s	demons right so like actually combat is
2892s	hard by that definition so when we
2895s	started so basically be like comp
2896s	without combat and comp with combat
2899s	except if I can't do any Reaper bosses
2901s	that I also can't do sliska which means
2903s	I can't I don't have the quest gate
2904s	so its comp without combat or quests and
2908s	it might be without minigames and I
2911s	don't know what's in this category over
2912s	like so
2914s	so actually when we started looking at
2915s	what comp without hard PVM content looks
2919s	like that's called the max cave sure and
2922s	that's a little bit reductive but it's
2924s	essentially true ok so on that on based
2928s	on that logic our current
2930s	plan is that Reaper stays on comp
2932s	because anything else does because
2936s	because combat belongs on comp Reaper
2938s	belongs on combat therefore without that
2940s	it sort of isn't the comp cube and I
2942s	don't mean that out of a sort of general
2943s	principle of all it should be everything
2944s	in the game I mean actually if we start
2947s	trying to remove hard PVM content from
2949s	the completion escape we just have to
2951s	remove loads of stuff do you feel groups
2953s	are a problem when it comes to Reaper
2956s	yeah but the same logic applies if we go
2959s	through and start trying to remove all
2960s	group content and that kind of thing no
2961s	I could I could see us doing like a
2963s	special group trim or whatever and that
2966s	that's something I think was relatively
2967s	easy to add and I certainly add I have a
2969s	final decision on that I could see us
2972s	adding like a group bit but it's it's
2976s	it's it's a similar sort of logic that
2978s	if we start taking out anything that
2980s	can't you know its group content the
2982s	can't believe why why why combat group
2984s	content and not exactly other stuff sort
2988s	of seeps in it's because I'm for the
2989s	unfortunate the problem is there of
2991s	course is that we didn't have a Reaper
2993s	esque achievement for minigames which
2995s	ties to comp yeah which obviously is a
2997s	problem in kind of the way we create
2999s	ourselves like that you can't play
3001s	Castle Wars without other people right
3003s	you can play solo so you need other
3005s	people so that that same logic almost
3007s	applies to PV on where you can't play
3008s	without without other people and then if
3011s	we really say anything in the future
3012s	what what what precedent does that's it
3014s	for anyone who's saying like bosses are
3016s	harder than Cisco I mean yes but like
3018s	what you're asking is to have the comp
3020s	cave set exactly where your capabilities
3022s	are
3022s	if you think that quests are fine on the
3024s	comp Cape but hard bosses aren't fine on
3026s	the comp cave then you're just asking
3027s	for the achievement to be set at your
3029s	skill level which isn't which isn't
3031s	really fair like the either is
3033s	everything or it's nothing if you see
3035s	what I mean like there's no there's no
3037s	objective way to say all that boss is
3039s	too hard to be on competence and make
3040s	sense
3041s	cool oh and so in Massillon Castle Wars
3045s	requirement itself what will become of
3048s	that so it will remain on the legacy
3049s	regardless there is going to be a legacy
3051s	trim calm cake which also by doing and
3054s	you have to have that we're not gonna
3055s	change the requirements so that will
3057s	still be on this if you've ground out
3058s	your 5,000 cars Kosmos games it's on the
3061s	legacy trim comp game and you'll have
3062s	the legacy trim concave to show
3063s	that sure so that achievement is being
3065s	recognized still whether it stays on the
3067s	new comp system we don't have a final
3071s	decision on that it might be that it
3072s	ends up in my tier 3 minigame for
3074s	example so the highest here are them
3075s	yeah the highest tier minigame so it
3077s	effectively becomes a sort of insane
3079s	requirement rather than a trim
3080s	requirement if you want to think about
3081s	it in those terms but we don't have a
3083s	final decision on that cop because it's
3086s	not like because it's not tied to stat
3088s	anyway it's sort of a less controversial
3092s	aspect so it's not out of the question
3093s	that it would be at tier 2 it definitely
3095s	wouldn't be a tier 1 okay let's get into
3098s	some of the stuff we heat we've already
3099s	answered in and I thank you but I think
3100s	it's kind of important to emphasize on
3102s	sure if they've not read the document
3103s	which is when we've been talking about
3106s	all these capes but we haven't even seen
3108s	them yet when can we expect to have a
3109s	look at what these capes look like I
3111s	don't know when is it going to register
3113s	me when is a good question we got we've
3115s	got some quick concepts just back it I
3117s	was like a very early drawing we are
3121s	holding them for what I can see when we
3123s	when we get the initial final concepts
3125s	will definitely be be pulling them I
3129s	think I think we did the similar thing
3130s	years back with current Khan capes am i
3133s	Rob that I wasn't here for my time yeah
3135s	but we we will bring some some
3138s	variations and say you know do you like
3141s	this one in skills or do like this one
3143s	in the lower and then see what the
3145s	reception is so it definitely will be
3147s	showing off to players and it definitely
3148s	will be pulled we're just waiting on
3151s	that to happen but we Bart knows about
3153s	it and what becomes of skill care perks
3156s	they will be pretty much the same so I
3160s	think we were Tom it's just just for the
3162s	stream actually - oops kill Kate perks
3167s	on a cape you only to have max just as
3170s	you do no okay when you when you unlock
3172s	max you'll be able to put three
3174s	different skill capes onto your capes
3176s	lot if you've got an expert cape you can
3178s	add two so you know actually can max to
3180s	get skill tier Prix so an expert cape
3181s	you're referred to as like gavurin cape
3183s	yeah there's a guy thing like the other
3184s	inkay Parton's keep coming back and
3185s	escaping something else I forgot that
3187s	fourth one and the other so that would
3190s	be like that because that's we didn't
3192s	say the exact how exactly work for each
3193s	thing yeah like that's that what the
3194s	passives thing means yeah that's a
3196s	passive benefit you get
3197s	yeah you wouldn't have to wear a
3198s	particular cape cool
3200s	so anything so if you have that max
3202s	threshold then you can then put the free
3204s	perks on on your Cape slot yeah okay
3207s	however that other maybe you eat a skill
3210s	cape okay and again the ability I don't
3213s	know I don't know how that works what it
3215s	cost me reading the charity occurs to me
3216s	that so having having said what I just
3218s	said about PBM as I've said several
3220s	times we don't know what's at tier one
3222s	right we haven't said that okay so can
3224s	we just get this out of the way Tier
3225s	three is not gonna be is it and a half
3227s	something like ill tell us a 4k I
3229s	presume don't even conceivably conceive
3231s	I'm not saying I'm not saying it
3233s	definitely will or a definitely one will
3234s	have to sit down and work out what that
3235s	means it might be because we have to
3237s	think about what the identity of tier
3238s	three years and we don't have a mission
3239s	stone I part of the job here is to write
3241s	what what does it mean to have tier
3243s	three comics right what does that mean
3244s	does that mean you are a master of all
3246s	aspects of the game I mean what does not
3247s	you've just ground everything out like
3249s	crazy
3250s	yeah because those are two quite
3251s	different things so we need we need to
3253s	think about what honestly like I could
3255s	you might imagine that it might be that
3257s	we need like a hypothetical tier 4 to
3259s	put really insane stuff on yeah like
3261s	because some people are asking us for
3263s	like a 200 million capable right so like
3265s	that doesn't belong at tier 3 but maybe
3266s	that belongs here for right we might not
3269s	have a cape associated with it but my
3270s	have an achievement associate again
3271s	preface this as always that everything
3274s	we're talking about here is not final
3275s	and a very easy subject to change figure
3278s	this is a discussion on the deadlock
3281s	stuff FC is just release for so
3282s	discussions kind of give you guys an
3284s	idea of the full process behind stuff
3285s	because I feel like a Templar can only
3287s	do so much compared to you know coming
3289s	on actually being able to dive into
3290s	specific the point I was making was it
3296s	won't necessarily be the case I'm not
3299s	saying it's not I'm not saying it is I'm
3300s	saying we have to decide this with your
3302s	help it more necessarily be the case
3305s	that group bosses are at tier 1 combat
3307s	ok they belong in the combat category
3309s	they've been long on the comp cape they
3311s	don't absolutely necessarily belong at
3313s	the tier 1 comp cape so it might be like
3316s	again we need to sit down we need to
3317s	pull all this out exactly because it's
3319s	and it's a lot of work this is like
3320s	weeks of work I'm talking about here
3321s	like we need to sit down apply exactly
3322s	what everything goes everywhere in the
3324s	system it might be that we can just put
3325s	all the group bosses at tier two
3327s	brilliant in which case that's no longer
3329s	a problem because if you want
3330s	tier one comp you can do that without
3332s	doing any group bossing it might be that
3333s	if we do that there isn't enough at Tier
3335s	one combat in which case that plan
3336s	doesn't really work out so I think a
3338s	very important question to ask is you
3340s	know from this we're gonna have one hell
3342s	of a discussion from players we will
3344s	theorize about XY and Z so I think the
3347s	important part is to kinda get an idea
3350s	of when players can expect more
3351s	information on stuff so how come well
3353s	what can we reassure them just as soon
3356s	as soon as we call it okay so so with
3359s	this with this design out with mining
3363s	smithing we just we just did everything
3365s	in public yes soon as we had a document
3367s	was published it like first I put on
3369s	this court just to get something because
3370s	then they would say oh he's full of
3371s	typos I know it would fix the typos and
3373s	then I would post up and read it and
3374s	then they would say it's full of typos
3375s	so it fix the typos and then are usually
3377s	I would post like an updated version of
3380s	it the day after or the week after
3381s	taking into account all the feedback and
3383s	explaining what changes we've made based
3385s	on the feedback so as soon as we have a
3387s	document we'll publish that often so you
3389s	obviously mention the - with him being
3390s	public and stuff of that where that was
3392s	a beta do we see anything that that
3393s	being I don't think this needs a beater
3396s	okay really
3398s	there aren't really any big technical
3399s	problems to experiment with no there
3401s	isn't really like - me thing was partly
3403s	about test testing the technical stuff
3404s	it was partly about the look and feel of
3406s	the skill it was like does mining feel
3408s	good to play this is basically just a
3410s	list of achievements and a cape
3411s	oh go like and in the case of like the
3414s	cape let's say we get over let's say we
3416s	everyone proves the concept art so we
3418s	make the cape and we publish it and 90%
3420s	of plays hate it right well we can just
3421s	change it like right that doesn't need
3423s	to be beated so there isn't really the
3425s	same doesn't have any impact on the
3427s	weight sorry it doesn't slight impact on
3428s	the economy obviously because players
3430s	chase achievements but he doesn't like
3431s	we're not ruining the value of anyone's
3433s	bank you know like there's none of those
3435s	sauce yeah like it was big things with -
3438s	my thing was doing all the replacements
3440s	for people's banks like that could have
3441s	gone horribly wrong like I actually
3443s	didn't veto it
3444s	I think horribly wrong but like I think
3446s	one pickaxe term I think you missed I
3448s	think it was we missed one in 12 items
3450s	in people's bank system yeah every 12
3452s	item in your bank didn't get replaced
3453s	which produced absolutely bizarre bugs
3455s	that were impossible to solve yeah
3457s	because people were going on none of my
3458s	pickaxes got replaced then we weren't
3459s	yeah they did they'd pick out there's
3460s	definitely get replaced and someone else
3462s	would none of my blade bodies got
3463s	replaced
3465s	I think you could mention if it's better
3466s	than something catastrophic Lee goes
3468s	running I think you can say that that's
3469s	fine because but there's no reason to
3473s	anticipate problems in this case it's
3475s	much more I do what I mentioned because
3477s	we've actually discussed this for almost
3479s	an hour so I thought it would be one
3481s	hell of a discussion and well I was well
3484s	right on that one but I think it's
3485s	important to mention I'll say it again
3487s	this stuff subject to change everything
3491s	we said here is absolutely not fine I
3493s	was very much in the Slim's the design
3495s	bear my safe in saying that still design
3497s	everything outside that absolutely
3499s	and the very important thing of course
3500s	is that these guys are looking for the
3502s	feedback from all of you on it that is
3504s	very important to say the very least you
3507s	can give that feedback inevitably off
3510s	the tee ldw Fred when is posted on
3511s	reddit and of course neither school
3513s	server on just got GG /rs there is gonna
3516s	be one hell of a discussion about all of
3518s	this I feel because you're all very
3519s	passionate about this which is great to
3520s	see so it's just about finding that
3523s	middle ground where we can obviously
3525s	well smash it really so apart from that
3528s	though that'll take us to the end of the
3531s	stream pretty much covered as much as I
3534s	wanted to we did have some general stuff
3535s	but I had a feeling this is gonna take a
3537s	lot of this question because of course
3538s	naturally is a very divisive topic in
3541s	regards to what we're going through but
3542s	yes thank you so much everyone as it and
3546s	if you guys want to say before we wrap
3547s	up here I'm just checking my wrote down
3548s	a list of stuff to keep you covered that
3550s	we've covered everything yeah there was
3554s	there was what there are a lot of people
3555s	still expressing a concern about us
3556s	devaluing their achievements that's
3558s	really what we don't want to do I think
3561s	that so in the case of like if you've
3563s	worked hard to get some accomplishment
3564s	so that it would be recognized that will
3567s	still be double still existence in the
3568s	new system like because it's not going
3570s	to be that different we're talking about
3571s	categorizing things a little bit more
3572s	clearly defining things a little bit
3574s	more clearly but if you've worked for
3575s	some particular goal that goal should
3577s	still be recognized the group that I
3579s	think are losing out potential or it
3581s	might feel like they're losing out are
3583s	the ones who worked on comp for stats
3585s	and don't actually want comp
3588s	don't can't this in they didn't actually
3590s	want to do living form right what they
3593s	wanted with the stats and those players
3594s	are going to say why does someone who
3596s	didn't grind out
3597s	farm desert the same stance as me
3598s	because that's the state they'll be in
3600s	after the relook and like my answer to
3603s	that is you benefit because next time
3605s	there's a livid farm that you don't want
3607s	to grind out you don't have to do it so
3609s	although you ground out livid farm in
3611s	the past we can't really fix that for
3612s	you
3613s	instead of having your best in slow
3616s	combat cape you're not given a skill
3618s	esque to the cue because going after the
3622s	rework uke combats that's backfire you'd
3626s	keep your combats that's even when we
3627s	release live at farm to write which
3629s	requires 250 so so even though it feels
3636s	like you're losing out you're not you're
3638s	benefiting that's just it will take a
3639s	while before it you can see how you're
3641s	benefiting o the other is there were
3643s	just some people in the chat saying like
3645s	they're obviously not listening to a
3646s	feedback they're obviously not going to
3646s	change anything which is weird because
3648s	like that's exactly what we changed
3651s	loads about mining and smithing having
3654s	for the better as well for the update
3655s	itself I mean was awesome so you do like
3657s	everything like you've said like it's
3659s	part of the design you get the stats
3660s	from any one of the categories that's
3663s	not fun at all like it's like two lines
3666s	of code to change that up yeah that's
3667s	not a final decision at all that's no
3669s	way you think of it cool all right that
3672s	will wrap it up everyone so as always
3675s	thank you so much for joining us this
3676s	was probably one of the most in-depth
3678s	discussion streams I've ever had in
3680s	regards to just literally talking about
3681s	one topic for a very long amount of time
3683s	so was obviously exhausting him trying
3686s	to make sure we covered everything we
3687s	want it to cover but I think in these
3689s	three I mean exhaustive exhaustive yes
3692s	the stream helped me there you know kind
3695s	of elaborating on some certain things in
3697s	there but apart from that everyone thank
3698s	you so much as always for joining us
3701s	we'll end the stream I head upstairs
3702s	fire out your lead scape and good luck
3704s	on your parcel from that one but as
3706s	always join the server talk to these
3707s	guys involved in any entire team more
3710s	easy more doctor more to more Jack I
3712s	think that's everyone
3713s	yep that's the team perfect all right
3716s	now open up for everyone's here ever and
3718s	so thank you so much for joining us take
3720s	care and have a good one Cheers
3755s	you

[2019] RuneScape Dev Q&A (Mar 2019) - Comp Cape Rework

Transcript (by Youtube)

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