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| 0s | this week on rsbnb update we sit down |
|---|---|
| 2s | with montjac and montreike part of the |
| 4s | team behind extinction runescape's |
| 6s | newest grandmaster quest |
| 8s | focusing on extinction itself and the |
| 10s | elder god wars as a living story we |
| 13s | unpack what went into building this |
| 15s | chapter ending quest |
| 22s | this is rs baby update a special |
| 25s | presentation plotting extinction |
| 27s | recorded tuesday april 5th 2022 |
| 41s | hello everybody and welcome back to |
| 43s | another episode of rsbnb update tanis |
| 46s | and myself are here as we are each and |
| 48s | every week welcome back tennis |
| 51s | thank you shane i'm really excited to |
| 53s | get started today um |
| 55s | had a |
| 56s | really good night last night very |
| 57s | eventful |
| 59s | yeah it and it has been an eventful uh |
| 62s | couple days and even in the lead up to |
| 64s | that and tennis and myself are back for |
| 66s | this special episode because on this |
| 69s | episode we're actually joined |
| 72s | by two of the jmons involved in the |
| 75s | creation of the latest grand master |
| 77s | quest in runescape |
| 79s | extinction so welcome to the show |
| 82s | mods jack and mod shrike welcome aboard |
| 85s | hi there hello everybody |
| 87s | so what we're going to be doing here |
| 89s | this this week on this episode is we're |
| 91s | going to be having a bit of a discussion |
| 93s | about building extinction and then after |
| 95s | that |
| 96s | we're going to go into a full-blown uh q |
| 98s | a and answer some of the wider lore |
| 100s | questions that have come up in the full |
| 102s | edition |
| 103s | of this episode which you can find on |
| 105s | our youtube channel at youtube.com |
| 109s | rsbnb and |
| 111s | following from this i just want to say |
| 113s | that this is obviously a big quest this |
| 116s | quest has |
| 117s | has there's there was a lot riding |
| 120s | on this quest in terms of extinction and |
| 122s | the wrapping up of the |
| 124s | elder god wars with this and we just |
| 125s | wanted to have a bit of a discussion |
| 126s | about the process behind |
| 129s | making this quest but before we do that |
| 131s | we need to just handle some quick |
| 132s | introductions so |
| 135s | uh let's start off with you uh montreal |
| 137s | introduce yourself and give the |
| 138s | listeners a bit of a brief description |
| 140s | of what you do at |
| 141s | jagex all right hello i'm mod strike i'm |
| 144s | a junior content developer on runescape |
| 145s | 3. um i was feature lead for extinction |
| 148s | and one of the main writers for it |
| 150s | and we'll go into just what all that |
| 153s | entailed in just a wee bit and mod jack |
| 155s | if if the listeners aren't aware of who |
| 157s | you are |
| 158s | hi i'm mark jack i'm a senior game |
| 160s | designer working on runescape i've been |
| 162s | on runescape for well over 10 years now |
| 165s | and i'm currently responsible for the |
| 166s | storyline as a whole |
| 168s | so you know coordinating the different |
| 169s | updates with each other all right that |
| 171s | that sounds like a |
| 173s | task that everybody who asked questions |
| 176s | and helped put this episode together |
| 179s | would just love to get into your brain |
| 181s | for a moment and we're going to try and |
| 183s | do some of that but of course i'm shane |
| 184s | 1208 and tannis can be found in game as |
| 187s | well at tennis 79 so |
| 192s | i want to take this back to |
| 194s | when we |
| 195s | first sat down with you |
| 197s | ma jack last year we talked a bit about |
| 199s | the decision |
| 200s | to make the elder god wars focused |
| 202s | heavily on story instead of just having |
| 204s | it be a pvm soul experience and |
| 207s | with this there was real character |
| 208s | development twists and turns for both |
| 210s | the characters and story but most |
| 212s | importantly it felt like a war |
| 214s | so arriving at the end of this chapter |
| 216s | of it would you say that this |
| 218s | whole of game approach worked well for |
| 220s | building the story |
| 223s | yeah no i definitely think so um |
| 225s | it |
| 227s | was i mean i guess so yeah the the |
| 228s | dungeon we wanted to integrate into the |
| 231s | game world it sort of has a you know a |
| 233s | cyclical effect on the story by |
| 236s | by plugging the story into the pvm |
| 238s | content we make the story matter more |
| 239s | and then by plugging the pvm content |
| 240s | back into the story we make the pvm |
| 242s | content mata more and the two just |
| 243s | complement each other rather than sort |
| 245s | of ignoring each other so yeah i'm |
| 247s | really pleased with how that worked um |
| 249s | the one thing i'd call out i guess is um |
| 252s | the god dialogue that happened with each |
| 254s | week so you know we've released the four |
| 255s | fronts and the four fronts i think it's |
| 256s | fair to say they weren't really story |
| 258s | updates they had a little their little |
| 260s | cutscene introducing the boss and there |
| 261s | was a little bit of lore in that but the |
| 263s | story didn't really develop there |
| 265s | weren't you know changes but then we so |
| 267s | we put in the god dialogue almost as a |
| 270s | i don't want to say last minute it |
| 271s | wasn't last bit it was part of the plan |
| 272s | but it was very cheap by comparison to |
| 273s | making a quest adding in that god |
| 275s | dialogue was quite a straightforward |
| 276s | thing for us to do and actually the the |
| 279s | the reaction to that's been incredibly |
| 280s | positive so |
| 282s | we were really pleased because we |
| 283s | thought people would be a bit |
| 284s | disappointed with it and obviously there |
| 285s | were people saying you know bring us a |
| 286s | quest where's the quest and now we've |
| 288s | we've brought the quest but yeah |
| 290s | as a way of delivering story um i think |
| 292s | it worked really well yeah and we |
| 294s | absolutely loved having that uh |
| 297s | week-to-week uh to discuss on it and i |
| 299s | guess it'll uh go to you montreal |
| 301s | because uh |
| 302s | as a junior uh content developer |
| 304s | relatively new to jagex at the start of |
| 308s | this and you've been involved with |
| 309s | battle of the monolith that's oasis and |
| 311s | now |
| 312s | extinction |
| 313s | of course and this in effect kind of |
| 316s | puts this |
| 317s | i don't know if it's a fair label or an |
| 319s | unfair label puts a elder god wars |
| 321s | label on you how do you feel about how |
| 323s | this uh story approach was handled and |
| 326s | how it worked |
| 328s | i feel like it worked really well um |
| 330s | obviously my perspective a little bit |
| 331s | different on it because i wasn't |
| 332s | involved in content development within |
| 334s | runescape beforehand |
| 336s | um |
| 337s | i'm always a big fan of narrative |
| 338s | gameplay integration like i love games |
| 340s | that do it well |
| 341s | um so seeing that approach within jagex |
| 344s | and kind of letting narrative be |
| 347s | not the sole focus because obviously |
| 348s | that's you know we can't have narrative |
| 350s | useful because there's so much other |
| 351s | stuff you do in runescape but letting it |
| 353s | be the framework that other updates hang |
| 355s | on i think is a really effective way of |
| 357s | making the updates matter |
| 359s | and giving the kind of progression from |
| 361s | update to update that is quite important |
| 363s | in a live game that is continually |
| 365s | updated you do need to have a direction |
| 366s | and something that just kind of guides |
| 369s | the theming um |
| 371s | so |
| 372s | i mean from my perspective i think it |
| 373s | worked well all right |
| 375s | and i i know i know tanis is not |
| 377s | necessarily |
| 379s | um the die-hard lorehound of some of the |
| 381s | people that we've had on the quest but |
| 383s | this helped |
| 384s | you had your own thoughts on this too |
| 386s | from the very beginning |
| 388s | yeah i i found this really um really |
| 391s | enjoyable i i like the way that the |
| 393s | story |
| 394s | you know um was integrated in so many |
| 397s | different aspects you know from your |
| 398s | boss scene to even you know your |
| 400s | skilling or your you know archaeology |
| 403s | it's just wonderful all around um but if |
| 406s | i may i kind of have just a a quick |
| 408s | little um two-parter here follow-up um |
| 412s | but one do you think this is going to be |
| 414s | a hallmark of um how story is handled in |
| 416s | the future and then two what was your |
| 418s | favorite part about um |
| 421s | about how it worked |
| 424s | um in terms of future plans i would say |
| 426s | the integration of not necessarily all |
| 428s | updates but probably most updates and |
| 430s | most significant updates into the |
| 432s | storyline i would say is probably here |
| 433s | to stay |
| 435s | looking at elder god wars itself and the |
| 437s | way that it was paced i mean we were |
| 439s | quite |
| 440s | one of one of the big considerations for |
| 442s | delivering of the god was dungeon was |
| 443s | was you know a dungeon is expected to |
| 445s | have four bosses a god wants to hundreds |
| 447s | is expected to have four bosses and so |
| 448s | we built the structure with that sort of |
| 450s | boss boss boss boss with that in mind |
| 452s | um i think from the point of view of |
| 454s | looking at the year holistically and |
| 456s | ignoring the question of what a godwars |
| 457s | dungeon should deliver i think for i |
| 459s | mean the crosses is complicated but but |
| 461s | saying that side four big pvm updates |
| 464s | back to back was a bit weird from a |
| 466s | pacing point of view so so if i look at |
| 468s | that as an example of how we could do |
| 469s | better i think we would probably spread |
| 470s | out the content a bit better you know |
| 472s | pvm update and then a quest and then |
| 474s | something else and then maybe another |
| 475s | pvm update rather than you know quest |
| 478s | followed by four big bosses followed by |
| 480s | another quest |
| 481s | so so yes and but i think we can do |
| 483s | better yeah and that's something that |
| 485s | has come up with our listener base as |
| 486s | well because when we started this |
| 488s | process our listener base was largely uh |
| 491s | geared towards the more skilling quest |
| 493s | side but it's morphed since then because |
| 495s | of the boss boss boss |
| 497s | throughout that and this kind of piggy |
| 499s | backs into the next question with the |
| 501s | story arc touching everything in game do |
| 503s | the both of you feel |
| 505s | and you can you guys can decide who goes |
| 507s | first on this but do the both of you |
| 508s | feel that doing the story this way helps |
| 511s | get players and even new players |
| 513s | involved in the story |
| 516s | i would say yes kind of from my very |
| 518s | casual casual perspective but like i'm |
| 520s | not |
| 522s | this isn't something i |
| 523s | watch very very closely but i would say |
| 526s | yes um i find it really interesting |
| 529s | with zuck especially |
| 531s | like |
| 532s | zuck has some |
| 534s | well not a considerable law background |
| 536s | but you know he has some story behind |
| 537s | him and a lot of people got into it who |
| 539s | perhaps wouldn't normally get into story |
| 541s | um i think it's helped a lot of kind of |
| 542s | more casual law players access the |
| 544s | runescape story which is notoriously |
| 546s | hard to get into unless you've prepared |
| 548s | to like |
| 549s | invest a lot of time in so i think it's |
| 551s | definitely |
| 553s | helps more people get in and something |
| 555s | i'm looking forward to seeing with |
| 556s | extinction you know as the the player |
| 557s | numbers start to come in um in terms of |
| 560s | how many people actually play it and how |
| 561s | many people get involved and how many of |
| 563s | them |
| 564s | are law players and how many of them |
| 565s | have become interested throughout the um |
| 567s | elder god was dungeon all right season |
| 569s | of content jack would you like to expand |
| 571s | on that |
| 572s | um yeah i think the thing to call out |
| 574s | there is that we specifically tailored |
| 576s | the content with that with that whole |
| 577s | idea in mind so i mean karapak karapak |
| 580s | was more or less always going to be a |
| 581s | boss like he built up to that point i |
| 583s | believe the point we were developing |
| 585s | desperate measures was when mod rahman |
| 587s | said i want to make a i want to make a |
| 588s | kerapak boss and that's why there's no |
| 590s | so that's why there's no carrot back |
| 592s | boss fight at the end of desperate |
| 593s | measures because he'd already said i |
| 594s | want to make a proper full boss fight |
| 595s | with karabakh |
| 596s | um so he was always hallmark but then |
| 599s | when we were looking at other you know |
| 600s | integrating bosses into the story that's |
| 602s | why |
| 603s | a glacial and that's why zuck were |
| 605s | integrated because they were big bold |
| 607s | recognizable characters that didn't you |
| 609s | know they didn't require sort of |
| 610s | obscured or knowledge to make sense of |
| 612s | they were things that i mean zuck isn't |
| 615s | wasn't in rs3 prior to that but he's |
| 617s | very well known within the runescape |
| 618s | community as a whole right that's why we |
| 620s | pick those characters and it's it's why |
| 622s | we characterize them in the way that we |
| 623s | did it's why we wrote the cutscenes in |
| 625s | the way that we did so yeah it was very |
| 627s | much like |
| 629s | those updates were kind of |
| 631s | intended to draw |
| 634s | players who weren't so interested in |
| 635s | quests and the more conventional sort of |
| 638s | law content that we delivered in the |
| 639s | past to draw them into the story a |
| 640s | little bit more to present them with |
| 642s | something we thought they might find a |
| 643s | bit more engaging and interesting which |
| 645s | left you know which then meant that like |
| 646s | something like as an ad request could |
| 648s | just you know go off down a rabbit hole |
| 650s | of deep lore and and and confusing |
| 652s | theological discussions because we were |
| 654s | sort of you know we were trying to |
| 656s | create content that aimed every |
| 657s | different kind of player right |
| 659s | and |
| 660s | that's so interesting to me because one |
| 662s | of the huge analogies that we've |
| 663s | discussed throughout the storyline we |
| 665s | discussed it a lot with azan audra's |
| 667s | quest we discussed it with city of |
| 668s | cintiston as well |
| 671s | is that when we look at these quests a |
| 673s | good number of them felt like we were |
| 675s | watching movies good movies |
| 677s | at that and this |
| 679s | is interesting to talk about |
| 680s | specifically on the mmo front and |
| 683s | looking at rs because |
| 685s | when people hear about a quest if |
| 687s | they're from a different mmo or they're |
| 689s | used to a different style of game the |
| 691s | first thing that will likely come into |
| 693s | their mind |
| 694s | is the vanilla fetch quest which we've |
| 696s | had in the past in rs and can be done |
| 700s | wonderfully |
| 701s | but |
| 703s | that also leads the lore the wider lore |
| 706s | of the game to be so expansive that as |
| 708s | you said it's almost hard to get into |
| 711s | with |
| 712s | rs3 and i think we've established that |
| 714s | this storyline |
| 715s | is different so if somebody |
| 718s | is looking at the runescape homepage or |
| 720s | their client |
| 721s | this week and doesn't normally do quests |
| 723s | are they going to happen do you think |
| 725s | they're going to have an easier time |
| 726s | getting into this storyline and working |
| 728s | themselves up to extinction then they |
| 730s | would have had the past let's say end |
| 732s | game or um |
| 734s | i mean that's such that's that's that's |
| 735s | a very large topic and it's one that we |
| 737s | we discuss quite a lot internally um we |
| 740s | have we hate funnily enough we actually |
| 741s | have multiple project proposals right |
| 743s | now talking about that problem and how |
| 745s | to resolve it |
| 746s | um i would i would say we don't do as |
| 748s | good a job as we could at presenting the |
| 751s | storyline |
| 753s | as a whole and we've we're looking at |
| 755s | ways we can improve on that you know i |
| 757s | can't go if i if i sit down in game now |
| 759s | it's quite difficult for me to click you |
| 762s | know oh i want to play extinction what |
| 763s | do i need to do to make that happen |
| 765s | that's actually not something the game |
| 766s | handles particularly well i can get that |
| 768s | information in a second by going to the |
| 769s | wiki so you know players do solve that |
| 772s | problem for themselves but but i think |
| 773s | that's something that we could improve |
| 774s | out |
| 775s | but i mean in terms of um |
| 778s | i guess thinking about the question a |
| 779s | different way |
| 781s | one of the advantages of of focusing on |
| 784s | a specific single storyline is is that |
| 787s | at least you only have to answer that |
| 788s | question once like you know the if you |
| 790s | if the answer today is the same as it |
| 793s | was two months ago for the previous |
| 794s | piece of content you know |
| 796s | if you want to get involved there's a |
| 797s | specific thing that you need to focus on |
| 799s | this project |
| 800s | has |
| 801s | been a big deal so many people in the |
| 803s | community and i can only imagine |
| 805s | what the both of you are feeling in the |
| 808s | run-up to this especially you montreal |
| 810s | being a feature lead on this |
| 813s | but one of the things that comes up with |
| 816s | this is how do you |
| 817s | plan this kind of quest out in such a |
| 819s | way that after we've finished this quest |
| 822s | and the story line |
| 823s | that people leave feeling satisfied and |
| 826s | that there was a compelling ending and |
| 828s | like you were saying just now jack you |
| 830s | could have done something like a |
| 831s | cliffhanger |
| 833s | but maybe having something more |
| 834s | ambiguous is better as a jumping-off |
| 836s | point in the future |
| 838s | okay that is an incredibly difficult |
| 841s | question to answer because it's |
| 842s | something that i ask myself all the time |
| 844s | how do you build a satisfying ending how |
| 846s | do you create an ending that most people |
| 848s | feel like was worth the effort |
| 851s | that's hard i think most writers ask |
| 854s | themselves that |
| 855s | like a lot of the time |
| 857s | um |
| 858s | how i approached extinction specifically |
| 861s | i mean |
| 863s | in many ways it was a bit easier than |
| 864s | some other projects i've worked on |
| 866s | because we knew what the end condition |
| 867s | had to be okay |
| 869s | am i allowed to say spoilers can i can i |
| 871s | say how extinction ends here uh should |
| 873s | we go no not at this part let's save |
| 874s | that for the lord diggers |
| 876s | but yeah we already knew how extinction |
| 878s | was going to end going into it so |
| 879s | everything just kind of built on that um |
| 882s | whether people |
| 884s | you know the challenge is making really |
| 885s | making that logically work |
| 887s | and that's a separate question too are |
| 889s | people going to find this satisfying |
| 891s | because even seeing the responses to it |
| 893s | some people have loved the ending some |
| 894s | people hated it some people said it's |
| 895s | really satisfying some people have said |
| 897s | it's hand wavy and nonsense |
| 899s | like it's impossible to come up with a |
| 901s | single ending that i think satisfies |
| 903s | everyone um |
| 905s | all i all i go for yeah all i go for |
| 907s | personally is it doesn't satisfy me and |
| 910s | am i happy with it and that's really the |
| 912s | only odd stick i can i can use at this |
| 913s | stage yeah i sent you the feedback |
| 915s | didn't i and i said i didn't going into |
| 917s | this conversation i was not expecting to |
| 919s | be satisfied by this conversation and |
| 920s | coming out of it i think you made your |
| 922s | point well that was the feedback i sent |
| 924s | you yeah well we were doing you know |
| 925s | drafting and re-drafting like eventually |
| 927s | it did it managed to work in the end i |
| 928s | think personally but my taste is |
| 930s | different to everyone else well not |
| 931s | everyone else's taste but everyone's |
| 932s | taste is different right |
| 934s | and i think that and i think that |
| 936s | answers it because it's going to be |
| 937s | different for everybody but |
| 939s | based on your experiences as a lord |
| 942s | player montreike and |
| 944s | you jack for supervising and being |
| 946s | involved in the game for 10 years at |
| 948s | this point |
| 949s | obviously that's that's a lot of |
| 951s | expertise |
| 953s | with you guys on that one |
| 955s | tennis i know when we when we talked |
| 958s | about the the run up to this you were uh |
| 961s | you had some ideas about how this might |
| 963s | end and what it could mean as well |
| 966s | yeah um none of those panned out |
| 972s | which is which is part of the fun right |
| 973s | like the um i i kind of enjoy the |
| 976s | speculation and then seeing what happens |
| 979s | in the end and you know um getting |
| 982s | getting those answers you know rather |
| 984s | rather if you like them or you don't it |
| 986s | you get the answers um |
| 988s | but i am i'm really curious to find out |
| 991s | like were there any you know lessons |
| 993s | that either of you um can take away from |
| 996s | a project like this |
| 998s | oh loads yeah absolutely loads and loads |
| 1001s | and loads like for me |
| 1003s | personally this is the biggest thing |
| 1005s | i've ever made and like in terms of an |
| 1007s | extended piece of storytelling |
| 1008s | professionally it's |
| 1011s | you know |
| 1012s | huge |
| 1013s | um it's quite a big professional |
| 1014s | milestone for me |
| 1015s | um so i've learned a huge amount and you |
| 1018s | know going back if i had a second chance |
| 1019s | to do it i would approach it completely |
| 1021s | differently |
| 1022s | um in terms of you know our narrative |
| 1024s | pipelines and |
| 1026s | what we actually |
| 1027s | did in the end um |
| 1029s | [Music] |
| 1030s | i don't know whether you want me to go |
| 1031s | into details but the answer is yes lots |
| 1033s | of lessons lots of things to learn lots |
| 1034s | of things to make better for next time |
| 1036s | so so it's safe to say then that the |
| 1038s | storyline um did have an impact and you |
| 1041s | guys will be using this going forward to |
| 1044s | to craft the next set and i think that |
| 1046s | bodes really well when you also consider |
| 1048s | the fact that when we opened this |
| 1049s | discussion up we said |
| 1051s | that the idea of intertwining uh story |
| 1055s | within uh different aspects of updates |
| 1057s | is going to continue |
| 1058s | as well |
| 1059s | and i want to just kind of pivot a |
| 1062s | little bit into |
| 1064s | more about the actual building of the |
| 1067s | quest as well since we talked about what |
| 1069s | was learned with it but unpacking this |
| 1072s | starting point of the previous question |
| 1074s | this was a grand master quest and for |
| 1076s | anybody who is new to questing just |
| 1078s | what's the what's the quick lowdown on |
| 1080s | what makes a quest grandmaster |
| 1084s | actually |
| 1085s | yeah i i answered this a little in uh my |
| 1088s | simple answer to this is just it makes |
| 1090s | you feel like you played when you played |
| 1091s | richard |
| 1093s | okay while graphic sleeps pick you up |
| 1094s | pick your preferred preferred option |
| 1096s | um but i mean there's a lot of factors |
| 1098s | that go into that and we discussed that |
| 1099s | a lot during development you know it's |
| 1101s | not just about |
| 1103s | how how long the quest takes to play but |
| 1105s | also giving it that sense of epic scope |
| 1107s | um i think we learned a little from |
| 1109s | siskiyou's endgame in that regard that |
| 1111s | that's this case end game didn't have |
| 1113s | that feeling of scope because it all |
| 1114s | took place within a single environment |
| 1116s | or almost almost entirely took place |
| 1118s | within a single environment even if it |
| 1119s | was long even if it was challenging even |
| 1121s | if it was lawful he didn't have that |
| 1123s | sense of the world |
| 1125s | um because it was so restricted so we |
| 1126s | wanted to avoid something like that you |
| 1128s | know obviously you know big events the |
| 1130s | the example i gave to people was um |
| 1134s | the song um bring me to life by |
| 1137s | evanescence |
| 1139s | has a really good structure it's only |
| 1140s | like you know three minutes long but it |
| 1142s | feels much longer because it changes |
| 1144s | tone so often |
| 1146s | um same with you know most of the |
| 1148s | meatloaf songs they are quite long but |
| 1150s | they feel even longer um you know |
| 1152s | because they change tone and you feel |
| 1153s | like you've gone on this crazy journey |
| 1155s | because you know you kind of experience |
| 1156s | the story and then something else |
| 1158s | happens and then something else happens |
| 1159s | and then something else happens so it's |
| 1160s | that sort of feeling of of epic scope |
| 1162s | which i think is most crucial all right |
| 1165s | um it also felt a little bit unique as a |
| 1167s | grandmaster quest because there were no |
| 1169s | actual hard skill requirements on it |
| 1172s | but there were quest requirements and |
| 1173s | then there were skill requirements on |
| 1175s | quests like city of centisten |
| 1178s | was there any specific reasoning to just |
| 1180s | have quest requirements on this rather |
| 1182s | than a certain skill requirement perhaps |
| 1185s | yeah so whenever we were discussing |
| 1187s | requirements i looked at past grand |
| 1189s | masters and what you know what they |
| 1191s | enrolled and speakers end game didn't |
| 1192s | have any skill requirements it was just |
| 1194s | quests um so i thought following that |
| 1196s | would be a good idea and also i thought |
| 1198s | the skill level requirements for the |
| 1199s | previous quests |
| 1201s | for |
| 1202s | extinction would be enough especially as |
| 1204s | the gameplay didn't really require |
| 1206s | you know |
| 1208s | major skilling content like adding in |
| 1211s | extra skill levels would just feel a bit |
| 1212s | artificial to me so i was happy to just |
| 1214s | go with quests for it |
| 1216s | all right fair enough |
| 1217s | and when you |
| 1219s | start writing a quest like extinction |
| 1221s | where do you start do you start with a |
| 1222s | storyboard or the key narrative points |
| 1225s | that need to be resolved or do you just |
| 1227s | write |
| 1229s | this is quite context dependent on what |
| 1231s | the quest needs to do in terms of the |
| 1234s | wider story um i think like i mentioned |
| 1235s | before for extinction we knew what the |
| 1237s | end condition was um so |
| 1239s | that was the narrative point that we |
| 1241s | started with and we kind of worked |
| 1242s | backwards from there in terms of what |
| 1244s | chain of events did we have to do to get |
| 1247s | to that narrative and condition in a |
| 1248s | fairly logical way um not you know some |
| 1251s | past maybe less logical than others but |
| 1254s | you know we got there in the end um |
| 1256s | in terms of like what i make for that |
| 1257s | kind of stuff like i i made a |
| 1260s | what i call a story graph for it |
| 1263s | um so you have the it's like a |
| 1265s | two-dimensional x-y axis with |
| 1267s | progression of time like progression |
| 1269s | events on one axis and then kind of |
| 1270s | tension and gameplay feel on the other |
| 1273s | so it's how you map out the scenes and |
| 1275s | map out the gameplay sequences depending |
| 1277s | on how the players should be feeling |
| 1278s | very interesting progresses |
| 1281s | i'm quite pleased with it it was a |
| 1282s | really nice way of kind of conveying |
| 1283s | what i wanted from the story and things |
| 1284s | like um |
| 1286s | you know feedback reviews and that kind |
| 1287s | of stuff it was a nice easy way of |
| 1288s | getting the the overall shape of the |
| 1290s | story across |
| 1291s | but that was my start point and then it |
| 1293s | was kind of scene by scene and then |
| 1295s | getting into the dialogue |
| 1297s | not straight off the bat you know you |
| 1298s | kind of plan out first and then do the |
| 1300s | dialogue |
| 1301s | all right |
| 1302s | um |
| 1303s | speaking of building this quest how much |
| 1305s | time went into the development of this |
| 1307s | quest in terms of |
| 1308s | in terms of production time are we |
| 1310s | looking at a few months six longer |
| 1314s | um so we started development |
| 1317s | i think end of october last year all |
| 1319s | right |
| 1320s | um so five months ish |
| 1324s | so that would have been after the last |
| 1326s | after the last front hit the players |
| 1327s | then about yeah yeah so after the last |
| 1330s | front and um |
| 1333s | yeah yeah so we started kind of you know |
| 1334s | the the last quarter of last year and |
| 1337s | kind of worked on over christmas and and |
| 1340s | you know until until |
| 1342s | yesterday |
| 1344s | and i i know when we also talk about |
| 1346s | this on the podcast the quest length |
| 1349s | always comes up and and i know with you |
| 1351s | tanis that's something that um |
| 1353s | from an accessibility perspective but |
| 1355s | also just gameplay you always uh had an |
| 1358s | interest in |
| 1360s | yeah um well and i'm i'm really |
| 1363s | curious uh you know we love we love |
| 1364s | quests here at rsbnb |
| 1367s | um |
| 1368s | but with that amount of uh development |
| 1370s | time how like how do you make the case |
| 1373s | uh for you know a piece of content that |
| 1376s | should should last you know around three |
| 1378s | hours versus something that is you know |
| 1380s | in game and |
| 1382s | like a boss or a scaling method |
| 1384s | something like that like how do you make |
| 1386s | that case |
| 1387s | honestly honestly that is hard um and |
| 1389s | it's it's it's in part why something |
| 1392s | like elder godwars dungeon when the very |
| 1393s | heavy story involvement happened because |
| 1395s | that's |
| 1396s | a way that we can we can keep the story |
| 1398s | going without only doing it through |
| 1400s | quests |
| 1401s | um i i mean the the blunt answer that |
| 1404s | question is from a development point of |
| 1405s | view is |
| 1407s | like from a from a from a strict roi |
| 1409s | point of view it is less good use of |
| 1410s | time but i saw it more as a kind of a |
| 1412s | responsibility that we were paying off |
| 1414s | than a business decision that we were |
| 1416s | making like a storyline builds towards a |
| 1418s | conclusion we have to deliver that |
| 1420s | conclusion we can't just not deliver the |
| 1422s | conclusion because it doesn't have the |
| 1423s | best you know dry roi |
| 1426s | um so it's you know it's it's it's a |
| 1428s | it's a it's it's always a delicate |
| 1430s | balance of like you know we have to make |
| 1431s | responsible business decisions because |
| 1433s | we have to keep the game going but at |
| 1434s | the same time we have to deliver an |
| 1436s | experience to our players that our |
| 1437s | players want and also we have to you |
| 1439s | know |
| 1440s | we're not we're not in this as you know |
| 1442s | neither neither i nor shrike nor most of |
| 1444s | the people that we work with are here to |
| 1446s | like you know run a business we're here |
| 1448s | to make computer games to deliver |
| 1449s | awesome stories and so we prioritize |
| 1452s | that wherever we get the opportunity to |
| 1455s | um yeah it's the classic thing that |
| 1456s | comes up a lot in game development of |
| 1458s | business versus art |
| 1460s | and |
| 1461s | quests are very much on the arty side of |
| 1463s | things rather than the business side of |
| 1464s | things and they're still absolutely |
| 1466s | necessary like it's for making games |
| 1468s | because games are pieces of art so |
| 1470s | but if you're looking at it from purely |
| 1473s | you know |
| 1473s | like you say like a dry point of view it |
| 1475s | is quite difficult sometimes to make the |
| 1476s | case for quests like that and because |
| 1478s | you're right like compared to a boss or |
| 1479s | a skilling trading method where you get |
| 1481s | many many more hours out of it because |
| 1482s | it's repeatable at its core |
| 1484s | um linear stories are |
| 1488s | difficult because they do take up a lot |
| 1490s | of time they are they are resource |
| 1491s | intensive um |
| 1493s | if you want to make a good a good story |
| 1494s | experience and and with that i'd guess |
| 1496s | um i'd guess that having a very uh |
| 1499s | active community especially on the quest |
| 1501s | and lower side helps as well because you |
| 1504s | know there's there's always going to be |
| 1505s | those people who are just going to |
| 1506s | devour it and discuss it for months on |
| 1508s | end |
| 1509s | yeah and the fact that runescape has a |
| 1511s | little bit of a reputation of having |
| 1512s | foreign mmo pretty good story like |
| 1515s | compared to other ones that just do |
| 1517s | fetch quests like we actually do linear |
| 1518s | story which some just don't do and you |
| 1521s | know having that reputation definitely |
| 1523s | helps justify it yeah i know that was |
| 1525s | the first thing that hooked me into rs |
| 1528s | all those years ago when i started |
| 1529s | playing was that there's actual stories |
| 1531s | here so |
| 1532s | and with that there's |
| 1535s | a lot of loose ends last week and this |
| 1537s | week when i was preparing this episode |
| 1539s | and our previous episode i started |
| 1541s | making a list of these loose ends and |
| 1543s | there's a lot of them |
| 1545s | so |
| 1546s | without let's go through that list later |
| 1548s | yeah yeah we will we will in the lord |
| 1550s | so |
| 1551s | without going into spoilers right now |
| 1554s | for somebody who is looking to pick up |
| 1556s | extinction what are the biggest plot |
| 1558s | points they're going to see resolved |
| 1561s | the biggest one is the threat of the |
| 1563s | elder gods |
| 1565s | ever since this goes end game we've had |
| 1566s | the elder gods hanging over us saying |
| 1568s | proof you have the right to exist or we |
| 1570s | will annihilate the universe and end |
| 1572s | game |
| 1573s | extinction the bigger that's the biggest |
| 1575s | thing that extinction needs to resolve |
| 1576s | the only the only other thing i was |
| 1578s | going to add is the way that we chose to |
| 1579s | frame that from desperate times onwards |
| 1581s | was through the lens of |
| 1584s | because the elder gods weren't really a |
| 1585s | character that we could communicate with |
| 1587s | easily right um to use saren as a sort |
| 1590s | of almost a viewpoint character because |
| 1591s | she has such a unique perspective on the |
| 1593s | problem |
| 1594s | so in many ways this storyline has been |
| 1596s | saren's storyline she's not exactly the |
| 1599s | protagonist but it's sort of you know |
| 1602s | the story you know this the story is |
| 1604s | about her perspectives and her |
| 1605s | challenges |
| 1606s | yeah it's very much |
| 1608s | she's at the heart of it |
| 1610s | all right and with that being said i'll |
| 1611s | just say at this point play the quest |
| 1614s | because that was it was a ride for me |
| 1616s | and if you're on the fence about this |
| 1617s | quest if you |
| 1619s | feel as though that you might not |
| 1620s | necessarily be into this or maybe you're |
| 1622s | missing a few requirements it's |
| 1623s | something that you can definitely work |
| 1626s | towards and it will be |
| 1627s | rewarding to the end and i say that as |
| 1629s | somebody who's been playing these quests |
| 1631s | for years so that's my personal uh |
| 1633s | perspective on it but we're going to go |
| 1635s | a little bit deeper into the lore side |
| 1638s | of it but first i just want to thank |
| 1640s | both of you for being here with us and |
| 1642s | i'm sure i speak for many when i say |
| 1645s | that the story's been a ride for all of |
| 1647s | us from the players and even both of |
| 1649s | you as developers and everybody who |
| 1652s | worked on the project is there anything |
| 1654s | else you'd like to say before we depart |
| 1657s | it's been wild it's been it's been crazy |
| 1659s | to develop and and you know getting to |
| 1661s | write it has been yeah |
| 1664s | come back for the next thing go play the |
| 1665s | question |
| 1667s | there's there's more there's more coming |
| 1669s | on top of this oh all right so with that |
| 1671s | being said that's it for this episode of |
| 1673s | rsbmb update we'll be continuing this |
| 1675s | discussion with mon jack and mod shrike |
| 1677s | on our youtube channel at youtube.com |
| 1680s | rsbnb we're where we're going to be |
| 1682s | doing a deep dive into the west lore |
| 1685s | ramifications and a q a and as i |
| 1687s | mentioned you can find that at |
| 1688s | youtube.com |
| 1690s | rsbnb with that being said we'll see you |
| 1692s | next week for another episode of rsbnb |
| 1695s | update |
| 1703s | [Applause] |
| 1709s | [Music] |
| 1723s | you |