Original Post — Direct link

I want to preface this by saying I do really like the idea of expanding and spicing up the reward space for daily challenges and rebalancing the requirements to finishing them.


As I noted in a post about various ways dailyscape could be improved, I think these sorts of changes are a step in the wrong direction. I know the big bosses upstairs probably hound you Jmods on the importance of daily engagement, so we're going to see more and more mobile-game-esqe features that rely on you playing every day or fear missing out. I'm just sad to see one of the very few systems that didnt work that way get replaced with one that does('that way' meaning building up charges over days you miss so you can spend them all at once). I know the community perception will be positive since it results in overall more rewards, but it really just rubs me the wrong way.

Vis Wax

(I actually forgot this in my post from earlier this week but we really need more vis wax btw). He touched on how this update will make you need less vis wax and i just dont see how? Before it was 50 wax to extend a challenge. Now you get 3 challenges that take 30 wax each? +20 for rerolls if you want to 3x extend for a specific skill. Even with a perfect 100 a day youll be at a net negative if youre taking full advantage of this system. Yikes. Before any auras. At a minimum maybe make one free extension per day? We really need more wax coming into the game. Yo dawg i heard you like dailies so I made your dailies that are dependent on other dailies even more dependent on those other dailies.

I know some of my ideas are probably sh*t. I don't work in game design. Thats my rant.

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15 days ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Thanks so much for getting involved in the discussion so far. It's really helpful to us!

Mod Daze and I are already discussing additions we'd like to make from your feedback, and the update isn't even live yet!

For example, a great idea we've seen is to add vis wax to the weekly reward chests - that way if you're self-sufficient, there's a limited source of additional vis wax to feed back into your optimisation of daily challenges.

There's a lot of levers we can pull:

  • further reducing vis wax cost to suit supply (though focusing 3 extended challenges daily on a single skill awards obscenely more XP than before, even reducing down to large lamps, so wanted it to have some throttling/sacrifice out of the gate)

  • adjusting the reroll & disabling mechanics to be more player-friendly

  • moving toward more of an internal currency (eg extending with challenge tokens rather than vis wax)


It's a daily system and we ultimately want to tune it so it feels good to play, while achieving its goals for engagement and retention.

One of the handy things about a live service we update weekly is we can tune and refine on a weekly basis (if we can get a design agreed, implemented and tested in time for patch notes weekly cut-off, of course) to make the game better for you and healthy in the long term.

Thanks for keeping the constructive criticism coming, and we'll keep listening and reacting!

15 days ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by sapphoandherdick

Mod Stu is such a talented developer, stop making him do these stupid projects and get him on some good shit.

That's very kind of you to say, thank you - I'm blushing!

Serious question, though; given you know where my talents lie, what projects would you rather I was doing?

15 days ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by KBMonay

Designer of lore heavy quests, champion of the one defence community, actually plays the game and recognises inconsistencies/areas that can be improved... I'd selfishly put you in Quest and Lore content development because I think we'd enter a whole new age of Runescape (pun intended, 7th Age???). I think it's hard for us as a community to see you working on things that seem to be ploys from the higher-ups to boost daily engagement, because we know how much quality stuff would come out of your passion for this game elsewhere. You're a star either way.


15 days ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by Alderdragon

Thanks for the insight. Upkeeping vis wax is a bit of a concern. Since it's more overall xp I understand the tradeoff, but vis rewards would be nice. I would rather reduce vis costs than pump out more vis though. If extend tokens were a thing, I would hope for them to act as a "free coupon" rather than replacing vis wax as an option.

Isn't vis less effective now, though? In the current system I receive a Herblore daily, spend 50 vis to extend it and get 193k xp. In the new system I'd spend 110 vis to reroll and extend all 3 into Herblore for 290k xp. Overall I'm getting ~30% less experience per vis wax.

Thanks for your feedback! So I can understand your point of view, why would you prefer there to be two currency options? (ie free challenge coupons from the weekly reward chests, and vis wax)

You have an Ironman tag, so I assume it's not so you have the option to buy vis wax from the GE for extra extends?

What if you could pay coins directly for an extend without needing vis wax, so it's more of a direct money sink?

(Just throwing out hypothetical ideas to see how they land.)

Also, as an Ironman, how do you split the vis wax you can get across its current uses? In essence, how much vis wax do you tend to have left over to spend on challenges, if any?

15 days ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by Lord-Ice

I mean... you're the cream of the crop when it comes to good lore quests IMHO. Plagues End and Sliske's Endgame were super fun, Lord of Vampyrium is nuts (in a good way), and Brink of Extinction felt like a really emotionally investing quest for such an objectively alien culture as the TzHaar - even if the Haar have now been weaponized against us. So honestly, I'd rather see your time given over to whatever absolute banger quest you have bouncing around that galaxy brain of yours at the moment. (With bonus points if one of them is the Gnome quest finale ;D)

Just my 2gp on it though.

Thank you so much! Though credit where credit is due, all of those quests were multi-dev projects, and I was usually in a supporting role:

  • Plague's End: 90% completed by Mod John A before I came in at the end to help with supplementaries like quest journal and guidance systems, and the boss fight. Mod Osborne as design reviewer, which always makes something good twice as good

  • Sliske's Endgame: Mod Raven at the helm, pretty much everybody chipping in to get that gigantic finale with ludicrous amounts of choice variance out on time. IIRC I mostly did Maze puzzles and encounter dialogues

  • Lord of Vampyrium: fantastically led and designed by Mod Rowley. So much of the success of that project came from how well he and Mod Osborne designed the mood, reveals, boss fight stages, etc, upfront, before any of us started assembling it. Rowley gets all the writing credit there

  • The Brink of Extinction: This was back when we had one dev per project, but even so Mod Goya's design review throughout development did so much to improve the narrative structure and emotional weight of this quest. Things like having a simpler story on the surface that a more combat-oriented player could assume through witnessed events, while the deeper narrative of the TokHaar's motivation is buried for lore players to discover without bloating the critical path. Still one of my favourite projects, especially getting to pay off Mod Edam's Ga'al story and make the TzHaar quests feel cohesive when he had no clear ending in mind.