Original Post — Direct link

Vod | Long Version | This Week In RuneScape - 26/10/20


Achievement Back-end Overhaul

ETA: Monday, November 2nd. unless something comes up

Current Problem

Our library of achievements has expanded massively (around 3,000 achievements) and accumulated a wide variety of unique and often process intensive unlock conditions. Processing achievements has been one of the most costly scripts to run. It started to even crash out for players in certain cases.

New System Benefits

  • Processing Achievements is more efficient.
  • Developing Achievements is easier.
  • Testing Achievements has less things that can go wrong.
  • No longer dangerously close to being able to add more achievements.

Project Focus

  • Mimic parody of the live version as much as possible.
  • Ruthlessly avoided any future creep.
  • Get the new format out ASAP to players/developers could reap the benefits.

What we had to do

  • Recreate every achievement from scratch.
  • Puzzle out how to replicate their peculiar conditions in the new format.
  • Re-write the achievement parser to use achievement engine configs.
  • Ensure players don't notice the difference.

New Front-end Features

  • Area Tasks Category - Contains diary tasks by area/difficulty (separated from the Exploration category).
    • No current plans to add more in the future.
  • Activities Category - Contains Minigames, D&Ds and the previous Misc. Category.
  • Lore Category - Lore achievements are split into subcategories (removed from MQC subcategory).
  • Combat Sub-categories - Boss sub-categories have been added and ordered by boss difficulty.
    • Boss difficulty was based upon PvM Encyclopedia info.
  • Hide Completed/Locked are now relabeled as Show Completed/Locked. (Positive terminology).
    • 'Show Completed' toggle will affect sub-categories.
  • Hidden achievements within achievement chains are no longer hidden.

Achievement Categories
[x/2,929]

To Be Fixed

These features will need to be reworked to work with the new system.

  • The Grace category will no longer have sub-categories.
  • The 'Full Comparison' button has been disabled.

Other

  • Achievements no longer duplicate which ensures the tallies and Runescore are tracked more accurately.
  • There may be some fluctuation in your Runescore following the update due to previous miscalculations.
  • There are other changes which could be made to improve the interface but we wanted to get the new system out as soon as possible.
External link →
about 4 years ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by F-Lambda

Nex is also separated out. I'd imagine the reason is because the two of them aren't in the same difficulty tier as the other four generals in each dungeon.

Yep, that was the reason. Nex and Telos are significantly above the difficulty of the rest of GWD1/2, and I figured people would be more likely to first look for Telos toward the end of the difficulty list than look inside GWD.

If there weren't dungeon-specific achievements (eg GWD2 reputation; GWD1 Kill Count Still Counts to create an omni soulstone) and non-boss combat achievements (eg War's Retreat, Final Boss), I'd've been inclined to stick to alphabetical boss subcategories. But given the achievements that needed to be categorised, difficulty order including dungeon subcategorisation where available seemed to be most appropriate.

about 4 years ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by Mini_Hobo

Never thought I'd be so excited to see the words "hidden sub-categories" but here we are.

Being able to hide subcategories that are fully complete is honestly the feature I'm most excited about in this update.

Feels good to not have to eg scroll past and mentally filter out the Archaeology subcategories I've completed while trying to find the incomplete subcategories in the list.

So glad Mod Asherz managed to squeeze that request in. We had to really fight to include it.

about 4 years ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by SalixRS

Holy crap... I wasn't expecting such a big visible to the players rework of the achievements system. Oh boy that's gonna be a lot of work on the wiki. So if I understood correctly achievements will now be unique to one specific (sub)category which I think is a huge improvement. Hopefully this will fix the calculations of RuneScore as well as the grand total of achievements. It's also great that all achievements of a chain will be made visible. :)

Yes to all your points. :) And thank you for the hard work you all do maintaining the wiki!

about 4 years ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by jorgelucasds

Will you go retroactively adding achievements players have been asking for now that the system is better?

I won't personally be - I've already been reassigned to my next project.

We've done what we can to lower the cost of doing that, but when and whether resource will be assigned to such a project is not my decision to make.

It's a constant balancing act. If we do that in the short term, then another project will be delayed in the short term. If other projects are higher priority to release at certain scheduled milestones, then those'll get done first.

about 4 years ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by Feldick

Who knew that mark 3 of the achievement system was such a mess behind the scenes. I knew mark 2 was a navigational disaster with the interface, but wow I'm surprised the backend was just as bad lol.

Believe it or not I actually called mark 2 the Charles Manson achievement system, just because it was that criminally insane.

Rs3 code cleanup in any form is good. Makes it easier to do things.

To clarify, it isn't that it was previously implemented poorly. At the time, we requested time from an engine developer to build an engine-cached solution. That resource wasn't available at the time, so we had to do it all in our scripting language.

Which had sufficed for several years, but inevitably as more achievements got added to the system, we'd exceed the processing constraints imposed by that language (eg operations limit per server cycle to process that volume of bespoke data) and need to replace the interim solution with a long-term solution.

This time around, engine resource was available, so we were able to build the solution we wanted to have the first time. It happens, and it has certain benefits. (Not least of which to the end user in getting features sooner.)

about 4 years ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by buelens7

Any plans or contacts with steam to be able to link this new achievement system and lists to steam achievements?

Nope, doesn't work like that.

It doesn't make a difference to Steam what achievement system we have in-game.

The only power we have content-side is to send a message to the Steam module to let it know an achievement is complete.

All the Steam achievements are replicated in the Steam module by web systems liaising with Steam admins.

It's therefore unlikely we'd ever add achievements that grow organically and relock as requirements are added, like comp cape or Music Maestro, to Steam.

A game updating weekly that needs that much Steam achievement maintenance would be a real nuisance.

So we carefully picked Steam achievements for the initial release that are static unlocks.

(Mostly - 99 and a Flake will probably be a pain whenever we add a new skill, but at least that doesn't happen very often.)

about 4 years ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by jorgelucasds

Cool, excited to see what your next project is, which i'll guess is related to 20th year anniversary : )

Anyway, whoever feels like adding achievements can always ask the players for input and suggestions. AchievHelp discord surely has several players capable of coming up with a complete list of missing achievements

Yep, I've seen plenty of lists for more achievements, true trim, etc. Great ideas out there!

I imagine there'll be an achievement bonanza or two in future years to exploit the breathing room we've added, but for now the schedule is planned out and locked in for many months, so we need to work on those assignments to hit deadlines.

about 4 years ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by Radiogamers

I hope this finally removes hardcoded membership checks on achievements. It’s silly to see achievements like Jack of Trades and Jack of Blades not completing in F2P because of this.

Membership is handled similarly to the old system - a prereq that's enabled by default (because the vast majority of achievements are members), and we can make a one-line config change (so not hotfixable) to make it F2P.

Prereqs are more rigidly applied than before to prevent ambiguous property errors - an achievement won't appear as complete if the prereqs aren't met, so we have to be very careful any prereqs are valid when you can complete them.

We copied across the current member data, so this is a great example where there may be existing achievement bugs that still need fixing.

When the project goes live, please do report any achievements that you find you should have complete in F2P, and we'll jump on correcting those prereqs.

about 4 years ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by Janexa

Will there still be some way we can see in one place what's required for mqc/comp/trim now that those don't have a category?

Yep, the Completionist category now only (other than the Feats subcategory*) contains the meta achievements for max, quest, MQC, comp and comp(t) capes.

The reqs for those cape metas are listed in alphabetical order.

Just click a req for the selected cape and it'll jump you to wherever in the system that achievement is located.

So the cape metas are basically an index that'll easily help you find their requirements to complete. :)

*Completionist->Feats is where all the 'hidden' achievements go. Previously these were invisible until you completed them. Now every achievement has a tangible presence in the system, so 'hidden' achievements have generic 'the details of this achievement are hidden' name and description until you complete them. So at least it's clear how many Feats there are. And they're bundled in one place so if you're not into chasing Feats, you can safely ignore them.

about 4 years ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by ArcadeAndrew115

so is MQC being removed? or can we still view what we need for MQC under MQC category?

MQC meta achievement is still in the Completionist category where you'd expect it. :) Same for max, quest, comp and trim cape meta achievements.

The Completionist->MQC subcategory with over 200 achievements in it has been moved to a Lore category and split up into subcategories for miniquests, lore books, sagas, post-quest content, etc, to break that gigantic scrolling list down into more digestible focused subcategories.

about 4 years ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by kakardo

Will you be able to hide completed tabs? That is something I have wished for a while. I hope the tabs at least change color or something like that when they are 100% done.

Edit: YOU CAN!! ;D "Hide Completed/Locked are now relabeled as Show Completed/Locked. (Positive terminology). 'Show Completed' toggle will affect sub-categories. Hidden achievements within achievement chains are no longer hidden."

HYPE Toad intensifies!

about 4 years ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by JordanxHouse

Hi Stu! Are there plans to add more achievements to Steam that you are aware of though? Thank you sir!

Not that I'm aware of.

And you're most welcome. ;)

about 4 years ago - /u/Jagex_Stu - Direct link

Originally posted by MadainnMhath

Area tasks - is this like the old achievement diaries?

I started playing RS again after 6 -7 years away, I created a new account. I resorted to finding a list of all of the lumbridge tasks on a wiki as I found it near impossible to sort through the task system on Runescape.

Does this update negate that issue?

EDIT: Will we ever see more Steam achievements?

Yep, area tasks = task sets = achievement diaries. They've been renamed a fair few times. :)

And yes, I think the way each area's difficulty tier now has its own subcategory is going to make completing area tasks much easier to manage.

I can't comment on Steam achievements. That's out of my hands. I go into more detail elsewhere in this thread.