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Before you go downvoting me, I’m making this post in a serious attempt to understand the sentiment of players advocating for fundamental changes to high level pvm. I’ll be reading each comment reply with an open mind.
It’s become clear that there is a large part of the Runescape community that is discontent with the current state of high-level pvm regarding switchscape and the complexity of the combat system. Personally I do enjoy a degree of weapon switching and 4taa and trying to micromanage a lot of factors to improve my pvm performance. I’m not near the players at the top of the game getting consistent sub-5 telos kills to 1k or anything, but I think I share a lot of the sentiment of “elite pvmers” that have a disconnect with this increasingly vocal group of players who want things to change. It’d be easy to just go with my instincts and dismiss a lot of the ideas and accusations toward the current state of high level pvm but I want to understand why so many people feel this way and what my current thoughts/feelings may be ignoring.
The views of myself and many high level pvmers that I’ve talked to about this, is that things like switches, gear upgrades, perks, non-BOB familiars, 4taa, hybridding, manual/revo, and specialized abilities are all optional upgrades/methods that can be used to tailor your pvm experiences to your preferred level of sweatiness. A lot of us are of the understanding that zero of these things are necessary to get boss kills, and that they’re self-imposed challenges for those who want to go the extra mile and enjoy that kind of thing to improve their pvm outcomes. I think one of the fundamental disconnects here is the difference in viewing these things as necessary or not. I share this viewpoint of these being “optional,” and that’s where I’m wondering if I’m missing some fundamental idea here. Many of us have been around pvm without these things, and have seen perfectly viable pvm gameplay in their absence. “Elite” players used to streak telos on runic with a pack yak, no 4taa and almost no switches but a shield, wearing achto from 300%, and getting 10 min+ kills. We aren’t seeing what is preventing players from using these slower, lower-intensity methods today. Pvming like that can still be wildly profitable.
I have several questions that I think would help me and others better understand the “anti-elitist” movement and I’d love to hear your replies.
What are the real impacts of other players using sweaty methods like hybridding, 4taa, and multiple switches on YOUR gameplay? I’ve seen suggestions recently to flat-out penalize or remove the ability to perform weapon or armour switches that have garnered support. Is this something you support? Why or why not, and how would a change like that improve your pvm experience? As someone who wouldn’t use these switches with or without the penalties, why would the inability for someone to have a mobile-switch malev top for barge infringe on YOUR game enjoyment? Why don’t you abstain from 4taa and heavy switching if they’re not only unnecessary, but unenjoyable? Why do others utilizing those high-input methods (unnecessarily, but yes advantageously) “kill the game” for you?
There seems clearly to be a pretty large community of people who are anti-switchscape and complexity. Why don’t these players engage in pvm content together, doing bosses at a level tailored to their shared preferences?
How much/in what ways do toxic elitist communities impact your in-game experience? On reddit we see the most heated and animated discussions, and the upvote/downvote system certainly doesn’t help, but in game I see a lot less of this. Almost every upper-tier pvmer that I play with is frequently involved in boss teaching and taking learners to bosses. Even those that are mostly solo telos slaves are willing to give feedback and advice, rotations, presets, and tips and tricks to anyone who asks. I myself can even get pretty agitated discussing ideas on reddit but I still help with learner group activities through pvming fc, discord, or random in-game discussion at least weekly, and I know many others do too. I was actually laughed at by a housemate last semester while he was watching me play because I got pked at rago and explained to him that the culprit was a learner. He plays a lot more games than I do, and his response was “that’s so adorable you call them learners, we call them r*tarded noobs.” While I won’t deny that this kind of stuff does happen in rs and I have seen it, it seems relatively mild compared to other games. Do you think the switchscape and 4taa are the root causes of toxicity in high level pvm? Or at least significantly contribute to it?
In response to some of the things mentioned in the very popular front page post, do you actually think that “needing 20+ items with various swaps just to kill some bosses half-way efficiently“ or “EOC would be just great if we didn't need to weapon and armour swap, 4-tick, manage all these auras and pots and familiars and whatever all” have any real necessity in high level pvm? I know these were both used in conjunction with being problematic with the tick system, however we all know that Runescape’s tick system is fundamental to the game/engine and not going anywhere. I don’t think anyone is in disagreement that the game responsiveness can be very frustrating. The most common response I’ve seen from pvmers is a dismissal of legitimacy of the concerns over high-level pvm because of statements like this, that none of us view as rooted in reality, and rather highly hyperbolized. Do you actually think this is a requirement for “semi-efficient” high level pvm? Why?
These are the questions I most look forward to seeing answered and they regard the future. What are the fundamental changes you’d like to see in high-level pvm? What effects do you think they would have? What would you like to see combat look like? (we all know what you don’t want, let’s hear some ideas for what you DO). Many players agree there needs to be an ambitious skill ceiling that players can continually strive for and improve towards. Several people I’ve spoken with think that this “anti-elitism” movement’s main goal is to substantially bring down the skill ceiling and are opposed to that. Is this what you are trying to do? Since the aforementioned characteristics of current top-tier pvm are clearly “unfun” to a huge amount of players, what should be in their place? If your optimal high-level pvm experience is absent of switching weapons or armour, and includes a reduction of “complexity factors” like potions, pocket slots, familiars, prayer, auras, sigils, abilities, cooldowns (taken from the list on the top post), what should be in their place? What, if anything, should set apart tryhard pvmers from casual ones? Should “high-input, high-intensity” gameplay exist in runescape, and in what format? What types of bosses/mechanics would you like to see in the future, and how would they be kept interesting and engaging with the substantial reduction in combat complexity?
Big love and shoutout to everyone who reads through this and even bigger love to anyone who responds to some/all of the questions. I’m really hoping this can help me, Jagex, or “elitist” pvmers come to a better understanding of what the major gripes are with endgame pvm rather than just being dismissive and divisive. Please help us see from your point of view! Once again I’ll be reading every single reply with an open mind and I’m looking forward to it
Cheers
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