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Just saw a new player (43-54) get destroyed in Solo lane by a player who was (444-446).

Why is this considered a good idea by people who defend the MMR system? Wouldn't it make more sense to start new players at 500 mmr? The mismatch (key part of word: match) between the two solo laners was game-breakingly bad. Why would a matchmaking system match a brand new player with a player with 800 games or more?

Their Solo: Bellona (48-18 god record, 444-446 total record) Our Solo: Gilgamesh (0-3 god record, 43-54 total record)

This was not a fun or fair game, at all.

EDIT: It's not the same problem. Starting at 0 MMR would make new players have to beat bad players before facing average players. It would also remove having new players dropped into experienced players games. Makes more sense than having new players thrown into games lwhere they are facing a 48-18 Bellona with a total record of 444-446.

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about 3 years ago - /u/PonPonWeiWei - Direct link

Originally posted by Michigander555

I don't understand why the point you're raising makes it so that starting players at 0 MMR is a bad idea?

In the short term it would have the effect you want.

In the long term it would not. If every new player started at 0 over time 0 would become the new mid-point.

The tradeoff being made here is mostly that this is the quickest way to place people accurately. You can do things to make it less accurate (artificially set players MMR, force restrictions on who they can play against) but these make the system take longer to find their true MMR, and this extra time further compounds into less accurate matchmaking in the long term. We make some of these compromises (there are soft restrictions in place to prevent new new players from facing veterans) but Matchmaking systems are quite delicate as they rely on assumptions and breaking those assumptions can lead to unexpected behavior and wonkiness in the long run.

about 3 years ago - /u/PonPonWeiWei - Direct link

Originally posted by Nitefelina

We've had this argument before, and I still disagree immensely. I know in Rocket League you start at basically 0. You work your way through bronze and then silver. I feel this because I win my first 5 or so reset matches with ease until I get back into high gold/plat level matchmaking. Eventually you get into gold and that's where most casual players get stuck. Between silver and gold. That game specifically I'm gold/plat and every game feels like my skill level.

Making Smite's MMR start at 0 just means your average player won't be high gold low plat, they'll just be in high silver and low gold. Your new players will be in bronze with the really bad players and your diamond will feel much more like a diamond. Plat will be more of that mixed gold/plat feel vs what we have now with plat/low diamond feeling like a gold/plat setting.

This season I have waltzed up to 1900 MMR and dropped all the way down to 900 MMR and everything in between multiple times. It's 100% based on if I get the trolling or new team mates or not. Even in my 1900 MMR games I was in with brand new players thus causing the slow and steady fall back down to 1500.

I feel like if you guys just did a hard "reset" for "new" players and new being whatever you decide is the number of conquest games while leaving everyone else alone then it will settle out in the end. Players like myself will either get up to plat/diamond or just have the realization we are terrible and fall down to 500. Either way, the concept that ELO Hell goes away because a vet player simply can't play against a new player unless they really are that bad.

That system sounds like it takes a different approach; which is fine but it is a tradeoff of being explicitly slower. You could make our system roughly match that by essentially using our confidence metric as a multiplier on MMR. At 0% confidence we assume you are 1500; then multiply by 0 to get you 0. You play and win; your confidence goes to like 10% and your MMR goes to 1600. You functionally have 160 MMR.

This is a common approach with systems like this but again; it is a tradeoff. While it lessens the pull of bringing down the median MMR it isn't actually ignored and it will explicitly take longer to test and validate a players MMR. We tend to find that these types of changes seem more detrimental in a game like SMITE where there is a lot of noise when it comes to measuring player skill. (9 other factors on your team than say a 1v1 for example).