9 days ago - /u/Loki_ISP - Direct link

Hello everyone!

We have seen the threads from yesterday regarding the potential use of AI in the generation of the Flying Dutchman shirt from September. We wanted to go ahead and share what we have uncovered and the path forward. Happy to answer any questions that you may have.

First off, thanks to everyone involved in getting this heads-up to us. We love that our community has standards that match our own and that you are proactive in keeping those standards.

As to the shirt in question, we checked into this immediately last night when we saw these threads. We feel like we have gotten to the bottom of things and wanted to share that information as well as next steps moving forward.

  • This shirt was put together by a new freelance designer engaged by one of our partners, due to our normal folks being tied up on other projects. While we didn't know it was AI assisted at the time, we have since confirmed that - while elements of the design are human generated - AI has been used for this shirt both as a basis and for assisted elements. Essentially the artist in question generated something in AI and then redrew a lot (but not all, clearly) of the elements.
  • Clearly, this is not acceptable - and while we have never instructed anyone to use AI for anything (nor would we), we also never explicitly banned it in things like contracts and the like. We just assumed it was an unwritten rule that everyone understood.
  • This was reviewed - as all merch items are - before release and we missed it as well (so that’s on us and we sincerely apologize - clearly catching AI in pixel art is a skill we need to enhance)
  • To be very clear, our merch partner is as upset as we are here (it slipped past them as well), and they are 100% behind actions to make this right.

So all that said, what are we going to do about it?

  • The shirt in question has been removed from the store and delisted from terraria.org
  • We are proactively refunding all purchases of this shirt - even folks who are not aware of this information and/or still like the shirt. They are welcome to keep the shirt of course.

How will we prevent this moving forward?

  • AI art is ONLY to be used as needed in things like “promo art” backgrounds - like the dock scene used in promo images for this shirt. This too is strongly discouraged and should be avoided - and only intended to cover the event of any stock photos used unknowingly containing AI elements. Any such accidental incidents should be addressed to remove AI once discovered. AI may not be used for the design or production of products in any way. (EDITED THE ABOVE FOR CLARITY AS IT WAS CONFUSING)
  • Our merch partner has updated external/freelance artist contracts to explicitly forbid the use of AI in product design to match those guidelines. This formalizes the previously unwritten rule. All past/current and future artists working with our partner will be required to sign this.
  • Our merch partner has reviewed all other past and planned products to ensure that this is the only incident - and they have confirmed that this is the case to us this morning.
  • We will be reviewing this with our other merch partners so that our standards here are very clear.

Again, please accept our sincere apologies for this incident on behalf of both our merch partner and Re-Logic. It’s not acceptable, but we hope everyone is good with the steps we are taking to make it right and prevent any repeat occurrences.

Thanks again for your attention to detail and for letting us know!

External link →
9 days ago - /u/Loki_ISP - Direct link

Hello everyone!

We have seen the threads from yesterday regarding the potential use of AI in the generation of the Flying Dutchman shirt from September. We wanted to go ahead and share what we have uncovered and the path forward. Happy to answer any questions that you may have.

First off, thanks to everyone involved in getting this heads-up to us. We love that our community has standards that match our own and that you are proactive in keeping those standards.

As to the shirt in question, we checked into this immediately last night when we saw these threads. We feel like we have gotten to the bottom of things and wanted to share that information as well as next steps moving forward.

  • This shirt was put together by a new freelance designer engaged by one of our partners, due to our normal folks being tied up on other projects. While we didn't know it was AI assisted at the time, we have since confirmed that - while elements of the design are human generated - AI has been used for this shirt both as a basis and for assisted elements. Essentially the artist in question generated something in AI and then redrew a lot (but not all, clearly) of the elements.
  • Clearly, this is not acceptable - and while we have never instructed anyone to use AI for anything (nor would we), we also never explicitly banned it in things like contracts and the like. We just assumed it was an unwritten rule that everyone understood.
  • This was reviewed - as all merch items are - before release and we missed it as well (so that’s on us and we sincerely apologize - clearly catching AI in pixel art is a skill we need to enhance)
  • To be very clear, our merch partner is as upset as we are here (it slipped past them as well), and they are 100% behind actions to make this right.

So all that said, what are we going to do about it?

  • The shirt in question has been removed from the store and delisted from terraria.org
  • We are proactively refunding all purchases of this shirt - even folks who are not aware of this information and/or still like the shirt. They are welcome to keep the shirt of course.

How will we prevent this moving forward?

  • AI art is ONLY to be used as needed in things like “promo art” backgrounds - like the dock scene used in promo images for this shirt. This too is strongly discouraged and should be avoided - and only intended to cover the event of any stock photos used unknowingly containing AI elements. Any such accidental incidents should be addressed to remove AI once discovered. AI may not be used for the design or production of products in any way. (EDITED THE ABOVE FOR CLARITY AS IT WAS CONFUSING)
  • Our merch partner has updated external/freelance artist contracts to explicitly forbid the use of AI in product design to match those guidelines. This formalizes the previously unwritten rule. All past/current and future artists working with our partner will be required to sign this.
  • Our merch partner has reviewed all other past and planned products to ensure that this is the only incident - and they have confirmed that this is the case to us this morning.
  • We will be reviewing this with our other merch partners so that our standards here are very clear.

Again, please accept our sincere apologies for this incident on behalf of both our merch partner and Re-Logic. It’s not acceptable, but we hope everyone is good with the steps we are taking to make it right and prevent any repeat occurrences.

Thanks again for your attention to detail and for letting us know!

External link →
9 days ago - /u/Loki_ISP - Direct link

Originally posted by Branhelm1992

Can I ask why AI art is allowed "when needed"? When is it ever needed? If they need a background, surely an already created one is better than AI given what the AI art does to artists. And please, I might just not know enough about it so I'm open to more knowledge.

Usually those backgrounds are either photos or stock photos. Sometimes it is feasible to take things out and shoot your own photos.

Other times stock photo backgrounds may work.

Even with stock art, the use of AI to generate the backgrounds is so prevalent… we just don’t see that as close to as big of an issue as with the product itself. Its just sometimes not very practical to find or take that “perfect background photo”.

We want real artists working on our stuff and we are VERY supportive of our artist community being a part of that - both with stuff we do ourselves and products generated by our partners.

Hope that makes sense. :)

9 days ago - /u/Loki_ISP - Direct link

Originally posted by Silver_dude213

Yeah that part threw me off a bit. So AI will still get be used in minor, harder to notice places?

Nope. It won’t be used at all for any products. What I’m talking about there is where the merch is placed in a scene for like listing on a store. Ideally you can take an original photo (like this one > https://terraria.shop/cdn/shop/products/unknown.png?v=1713972823) - sometimes that isn’t possible. Then you are stuck with stock art - and a lot of stock art galleries don’t even list what is AI generated or not even nowadays. Thus that distinction - and we wanted to be up front there based on those pragmatic factors. We just don’t want AI touching the products themselves - at all.

9 days ago - /u/Loki_ISP - Direct link

Originally posted by Poyri35

First of all, thank you for the swift actions, you guys are great!

But, I feel like allowing any ai art is kinda half-doing it. It’s never a “needed” thing.

Is promo art backgrounds, or their human artists, less important than shirt designers?

Of course not. Explained this elsewhere on this thread. I’m not talking about promo banners and such, it’s “product scene photos” is maybe a better explanation. Our promo banners like for sotg and whatnot are all done without ai.

9 days ago - /u/Loki_ISP - Direct link

Originally posted by Atcraft

I really like the idea of the shirt though, hopefully an actual artist can be found and make a new cooler one.

This is a good question. Would folks want us to have this design redone/reimagined - this time without AI at all - and then have the new one return at a later date?

9 days ago - /u/Loki_ISP - Direct link

Originally posted by tytoConflagration

AI art is ONLY to be used as needed in things like “promo art” backgrounds - like the dock scene used in promo images for this shirt. It may not be used for the design or production of products in any way.

Please reconsider. There is never any reason to use AI generated images. AI generated images are not, and will never be, art and the use of AI generated images can only harm Terraria/ReLogic's reputation.

Outside of shooting your own photos (which is done where feasible), you are usually stuck with stock art. Stock photo galleries are inundated with AI images - and often they are not marked as such even. Not sure there is a great way around that.

9 days ago - /u/Loki_ISP - Direct link

Originally posted by DoomCogs

Still not all that excited about "use of ai in backgrounds" but as an artist i understand that those can take far longer and be far more expensive than usual work for merch, and as long as its not IN the product itself.

Outside of shooting your own photos (which is done where feasible), you are usually stuck with stock art. Stock photo galleries are inundated with AI images - and often they are not marked as such even. Not sure there is a great way around that. Not talking about stuff like promo banners - we do that (like for SOTG or for updates) with real people.

9 days ago - /u/Loki_ISP - Direct link

Originally posted by hellish_goat

That sounds exactly like "minor, harder to notice places" to me. I understand if you use an AI stock image without realising and it definitely isn't as important as the products themselves but I still feel you shouldn't use it at all. It is never "needed".

I’m not aware of a third solution for “product photo shots” other than taking your own or stock images. When you delve into the latter it’s almost impossible to avoid it completely. The way you phrase it is like someone would be using it in a sneaky fashion on the product (nope) or we would use it for like promo banners (sotg, updates - also nope).
Holding partners legally in breach because they pulled a stock photo and it comes out 6 months later it’s AI enhanced photo but not labeled as such (it’s really that nefarious) isn’t practical. If this was something sneaky or nefarious why would we even mention it? :)

9 days ago - /u/Loki_ISP - Direct link

Originally posted by Katsanami

The way i read it is this: I want to have a model wearing my new shirt on the deck of a us naval ship. Obviously they aren't letting random schmuck me on the ship to model my shirt. I model the shirt in front of green screen and ai generate the naval ship deck behind me. This is allowed by the contract.

Precisely… or you pull a stock photo of a naval ship and its AI but not labeled as such.

9 days ago - /u/Loki_ISP - Direct link

Originally posted by TipsalollyJenkins

Its just sometimes not very practical to find or take that “perfect background photo”.

Then use a blank background. Using AI to scrape and steal the art of countless other artists doesn't suddenly become okay because you're just using it as a background. I realize I'm just one person but I can tell you unequivocally I won't be buying any products that use generative AI during any part of production or promotion under the current environment in which AI operates.

In that case, I suppose you won’t be buying any product by anyone that uses stock photos in any way - because unless you took them yourself there is no way to guarantee it.

Again no one is ENCOURAGING the use of AI in those shots, and if someone has a third solution I’m all ears - some groups do use blank backgrounds.

I’d say our stance against the use of AI art is pretty clear - and we back that up further by actively engaging community artists on our projects and encouraging our partners to do the same.

All the rest of this discussion is more just “it really sucks that stock photography has turned into this”…

9 days ago - /u/Loki_ISP - Direct link

Originally posted by TipsalollyJenkins

If a company explicitly disallows the use of AI in promotional material (which would include backgrounds) and makes a good faith effort to police it then there's no issue.

The problem isn't that sometimes AI will slip through, the problem is you're not even trying to prevent it from being used in the first place. It won't have to "slip through" when you've very clearly stated that it will just be allowed anyway. I'd be perfectly okay if you said "We're forbidding the use of AI at any stage, though we ask you to understand that catching the use of AI isn't always an easy task and give us your understanding if something does get by us."

But "Eh, backgrounds aren't as bad so whatever." is not an encouraging position to take. It makes it pretty clear that you're trying to mitigate backlash rather than actually taking a principled stance.

Again no one is ENCOURAGING the use of AI in those shots

In the same way that you weren't ENCOURAGING the use of AI on the shirt?

Indeed. It was known by all parties that we don’t want AI art. A freelancer got one through the process - precisely your example as used in the “backgrounds” paragraph above. When it was caught it was dealt with immediately and contractual legal additions made (eg if you use AI to make a product you are in breach) - because any designer can 100% control the source of their own piece.

Similarly, we would discourage its use in promo backgrounds - but taking that and putting it as a legal breach clause sets partners up for legal trouble even if they would have had no way to know that the random stock photo they used had AI elements that were not easily detectable.

Heck, even most “shirt on person” shots that you see anywhere for any brand of clothing aren’t real photos taken of the shirt on a real person. They are generated images using the shirt design and “placing” it on either a blank stock person photo or a generated person.

Seems to me we are doing precisely what you suggested - good faith efforts to be as AI-free as possible - so I’m not sure why the antagonism. Perhaps I’ve communicated it poorly.

9 days ago - /u/Loki_ISP - Direct link

Originally posted by Drag0nV3n0m231

Why is AI even being used even in the backgrounds of promo art? You should surely have people that can photoshop into a scene or just make a blank background?

As far as I am aware it isn’t. Somehow this is being misconstrued into “we want them to use AI for backgrounds” when it was more meant to cover any instance of accidental AI-related stock art usage and was under the context of what contractual changes were made for artists.

We would rather AI not be used for ANYTHING - not the product, not the promo art, nothing.

Perhaps I’ve communicated it incorrectly up front - I’ll make an edit to make it more clear because it’s tripping people up, I think?