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I'm just looking through all the threads and one thing I just thought about - When we're less hostile, less aggressive, less "f*ck you Massive!" the devs do not (seemingly) actively listen to us. the moment people get pissed, uninstall the game, drag it in the mud, bitch and complain (I bitch and complain too, so I'm not talking down) the devs then backpeddle.

Listen, I've played Division 2 since launch and never once seen a nerf be reverted, never. and this may seem like a good thing to others, but to me this is pretty alarming - because I sincerely believe, had the community not known of or raised a fuss about 40% nerfing of M1A, it would not have been reverted for PvE.

Devs, just listen to us the first time. poll the community (via their respective platform to ensure only 1 vote and it's ACTUALLY Division players) and then move into action. moving into action, then partially reversing that action due to player outcry = bad image.

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over 4 years ago - /u/Ubi-RealDude - Direct link

I can personally assure you this is not the first time that an influx of community feedback has spurred a quick walk-back or change of course on a balance decision.

Secondly:

Devs, just listen to us the first time. poll the community [...] and then move into action.

It's unfortunately a bit more complicated than that. Part of what helps with the quick turnaround on something like the M1A issue was that it was a relatively cut-and-dry change that a vast majority (though still not a unanimity) of the community was unhappy with.

Even with something that seems unified in its feedback like issues with loot quality, purples, and gear drops overall isn't quite so straightforward.

Yes, we can plainly see that the community is extremely frustrated with how loot and gear feels right now... but is the solution simply increasing the rate of drops? Increasing the attribute minimums by difficulty? Increasing the averages by difficulty? Making gear always generate with 2 attributes matching the core?

Your response might be "Yes, yes to all of that and more," but someone else's response might focus on different things. Neither person is wrong. These types of changes require nuance - to say nothing of the feasibility of such changes - to say nothing of how long such substantial changes may take to create and implement.

Your feedback is important, for sure, but I really hope the takeaway from this positive-outcome M1A situation is not, "the Devs don't listen when we're less hostile and less aggressive."

over 4 years ago - /u/Ubi-RealDude - Direct link

Originally posted by Its_100_50s

Thank you for responding;
But I noticed your verbiage in the beginning of your response;

I can personally assure you this is not the first time that an influx of community feedback has spurred a quick walk-back or change of course on a balance decision.

Noticed you didn’t say a Division balance decision, and I understand that it may have possibly been done in other titles but I was explicitly speaking on this series, The Division.

It's unfortunately a bit more complicated than that. Part of what helps with the quick turnaround on something like the M1A issue was that it was a relatively cut-and-dry change that a vast majority (though still not a unanimity) of the community was unhappy with.

Again, in relation to Division - there has been a ton of times between Division 1 and Now where We had voiced loud outcries in disagreement with you all’s choices and direction for our game - so are you insinuating that due to the outcry this time, you guys decided to please and placate our cries?

Yes, we can plainly see that the community is extremely frustrated with how loot and gear feels right now... but is the solution simply increasing the rate of drops? Increasing the attribute minimums by difficulty? Increasing the averages by difficulty? Making gear always generate with 2 attributes matching the core?

No, I would not say it’s to do any of those examples you’ve given as I realize it would saturate the loot pools and not entice grinding - but you guys have been at this for almost a 5-6 years and between 2 games. You all can not expect us to think you guys can’t figure out a proper formula which scales based on player numbers and items in the open world. I refuse to accept you guys and gals can’t figure out this loot issue. I have too much faith and expectation that you guys are good devs (not taking the piss, being serious) so I know y’all can do it, but to say “it’s not easy” for 4 years it should be somewhat easier.

Your response might be "Yes, yes to all of that and more," but someone else's response might focus on different things. Neither person is wrong. These types of changes require nuance - to say nothing of the feasibility of such changes - to say nothing of how long such substantial changes may take to create and implement.

Maybe this is the issue? Maybe seeing no suggestion as a wrong suggestion and trying to please everyone is the issue?

Why aren’t you all using in-game polling to see what active players want?

Your feedback is important, for sure, but I really hope the takeaway from this positive-outcome M1A situation is not, "the Devs don't listen when we're less hostile and less aggressive."

I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to respond; i am being hard on you (in a respectful manner) because I have faith you all can make this right - but Unfortunately no action from you all in the past between Div 1 and now have shown you all do not respond to our requests unless we get nasty and hopefully in the future and as time goes on, you all will change that image. But for right now, you guys have been the most open and ‘warm’ towards the community and this only came after we lost our shit (sort to say)

Obviously a lot to respond to here so bare with me if I jump around, cut things, or just ramble. I've been staring at this thread for like 40 minutes now and have thought through far more tangents than I've written.

Apologies in advance if any of this comes across as completely missing the point.

Noticed you didn’t say a Division balance decision, and I understand that it may have possibly been done in other titles but I was explicitly speaking on this series, The Division.

Fair - it was my intended implication that I meant TD2,but I should have been more explicit. From working in The Division 2's community since before launch, I can personally guarantee that this game has seen multiple balance adjustments and design changes due to a spike of community feedback about the topic.

Examples off the top of my head... Skill Builds/Skill Haste on the TU5 PTS... Gunner Spec's lackluster release... GS 515 items in the Dark Zone... and more.

Again, in relation to Division - there has been a ton of times between Division 1 and Now where We had voiced loud outcries in disagreement with you all’s choices and direction for our game - so are you insinuating that due to the outcry this time, you guys decided to please and placate our cries?

The M1A Classic was an instance of incredibly fast turnaround. Shockingly fast, in my experience. Feedback does make its way into the game... this can be seen in the TD2 LZ compared to the TD1 LZ... changes to Specialization ammo over time... the removal of the 'Budget System' and a return to God Rolls... and more.

Maybe this is the issue? Maybe seeing no suggestion as a wrong suggestion and trying to please everyone is the issue? [...]

I completely agree. Although...

Why aren’t you all using in-game polling to see what active players want?

I'll admit I don't think crowd-sourcing the solution is always the best way to go. Things like the TU6 removal of stacking-passive Talents were not very popular at the time, but I think we can agree ended up being a positive change in the long run.

[...] hopefully in the future and as time goes on, you all will change that image.

Agreed.

over 4 years ago - /u/Ubi-RealDude - Direct link

Originally posted by Strawberryweeb

I agree with most of your comment, but I have a small question regarding loot in specific areas in the game, namely the Dark Zones.

The loot quality I get there overall is way worse than anything I seem to get while soloing heroics, making the incentive to go into Dark Zones completely absent.

Is this anything you guys are thinking of changing down the line, so players might risk going into the danger to get some better loot, or should I just only go into Dark Zones when the right allocation is there so I can try for some named items?

Speaking of DZ exclusives, is it known that the NinjaBike kneepads are really underwhelming in just about any build? It's a real shame and I think there is so much potential with them.

All the love to you guys and your work, and please stay safe during this quarantine <3

Dark Zone has always been and likely will always be a highly contentious area to do... anything with. So it's difficult to say what the future of it holds with any level of certainty.

You make an excellent point about the NinjaBike kneepads, though. I almost never seen builds showing them off... I appreciate the inadvertent feedback, even if I can't answer your main question more substantially at this time.