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I hear a lot of complaints about the sponginess of NPCs in TD2. Honestly it's an argument prevalent in pretty much every loot shooter. When adding health to harder difficulties, where do you draw the line between "added difficulty" and "added frustration?"

I'd argue that TD2 gets it pretty right. Obviously that's subjective and we can argue til the cows come home, but I'd say that the amount of health on a challenging tier elite often feels about right to me. Keep in mind that i have taken the time to make a decent build near GS 500, a requirement that shoild be taken into consideration when balancing the highest difficulty tier. Not everything should be killed in one burst, or one magazine -- sometimes I should have to whittle away at a target, getting 20-30% hp before the target hides or another target forces me to relocate or change my focus. I feel like TD2 is at its best for me when I'm in one of these extended gun fights.

The problem with the huge difficulty spike at WT5 challenging tier is brought about not by too much enemy hp, I'd argue, but instead by the AI's apparent realization that they have this hp. There's a fundamental change in the way the AI reacts to the player when switching over to WT5 challenging. Levelling up on lower difficulties, when an NPC charges you and is about to walk past your cover, a good burst to the face will turn them in their tracks. They'll waver, think twice, then fall back a step or two and take cover. You're still usually in a bad spot, but the AI acknowledges the threat of the player and reacts accordingly. Even if the NPC in many cases could have kept charging you and killed you, it reacts predictably and fairly instead (of course, actual rushers are exempt from this as they should be.)

In WT5 challenging, this suddenly changes. Every NPC, from an engineer to a medic, will advance onto your cover and walk right past it while eating your bullets like a deranged coked-up Pacman. There is nothing that can be done to deter them. They seem to know that you can't stop them. I'm not sure if this is a literal change in the AI's programming at harder difficulties, or more likely the AI reacts to the amount of trauma being caused and so tougher NPCs just don't feel that threat from the relatively little damage you do to them in bursts.

Either way, I feel like this is the biggest problem with difficulty right now. In a group it's not noticeable, but it makes trying to solo or duo challenging content very hard. I'm probably in the minority who think that high difficulty levels SHOULD have lots of hp and should do lots of damage to players. I feel like both of these things are in a good spot to make a very challenging experience, but the AI is turning those things into an insurmountable challenge rather than a good, drawn-out war of attrition which all the really good fights in this game boil down to. The aggression should be dialed back a bit. Rushing should be left to the rushers instead of a slow stampede of every NPC on the map.

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over 5 years ago - /u/ChrisGansler - Direct link

Hey everybody. I wanted to chime in here after talking to the dev team. A couple of points on the difficulty that is experienced right now:

  • There's currently a bug where the enemy AI doesn't properly register your scaling. To be blunt: They think you're low (on health, not skill. We all know you're doing your best) and the AI should try to pressure you when this happens. We're looking at fixing this as soon as we can and this should decrease the amount of rushing you're experiencing (for those NPCs that are not rushers).
  • We're also aware that survivability sometimes doesn't feel great and we're looking into some possible changes. This is not a bug and more of a question of balance, but we wanted to mention it.
  • We're looking to increase your protection (how often enemies can hit you) when sprinting and / or going cover to cover in an upcoming patch as well. This should help the feeling that running away to re-position is basically a death sentence.

Thanks for your continued feedback on difficulty and the details on the different experiences you guys are having. It makes it really easy for us to bring this topics to the dev team and also really easy to understand what you like and dislike about the combat.

over 5 years ago - /u/ChrisGansler - Direct link

Originally posted by darker_ryoga

Please wait a bit before nerfing the content. I agree on fixing bugs buttThe patch is 3 days old and people should have given the time to gear up properly. A lot of players tend to overreact (remember when people complained about control points lv3). Challenge and heroic missions difficulties should be challenging, not some content you can face roll into. Thanks.

We absolutely don't want to nerf anything to the ground and expect challenging and heroic to still be very difficult.

But if we see things that just don't feel right, we do want to address them. We will however also not stop after we did an adjustment. If the overall feedback is "Hey, this is now way too easy" we can tune it back up.

We love the game and will continue to the support it.