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| 2s | Josefin: Welcome everyone! We’re back with, not quite a Fireside Chat, but with a version of this |
|---|---|
| 6s | that we’re going to call a Walk & Talk. We’ll be doing a couple of these, though each will be |
| 11s | a little bit shorter than the previous Fireside Chats. But let’s get to it! |
| 16s | My name is Josefin and I’m a community manager etc. here at Iron Gate and I’m here with two of my colleagues |
| 21s | to talk a little bit about Valheim, and specifically about the Ashlands. Let’s start with some brief introductions, |
| 27s | who are you and what do you do? Let’s start with Jonathan, who has not been on one of these before: |
| 33s | Jonathan: Yeah, my name is Jonathan and I do a lot of different stuff – I usually call myself a tinkerer – |
| 40s | I guess I’m mainly coding, but doing a little bit of everything, talking a lot about design with Robin |
| 46s | and Andreas, and yeah. That’s me. |
| 52s | Josefin: And Robin, who are you? |
| 53s | Robin: Hello! They say I am Robin. I am a generalist, artist, art director and lead of Ashlands, |
| 63s | I guess you could say. Working together with Jonathan and Andreas, planning out the Ashlands. |
| 73s | Josefin: Indeed. But let’s get to the Ashlands essentially then. I want you to talk a little bit about |
| 80s | what actually goes into creating a Valheim biome. Like, what are the steps to create one, |
| 86s | and what do we need in total to get a complete biome? |
| 90s | Robin: Well, first you need a pinch of salt, you need two tablespoons of butter– |
| 96s | Josefin: A couple of eggs. |
| 97s | Robin: Couple of eggs. You need to break some eggs to make some biomes, yeah? [laughter] |
| 103s | There are so many things that go into making a biome that there is no clear-cut recipe, I would say. But it starts |
| 109s | with a vision. I think that it started just after Mistlands was released, it was in December, or was it? I think it was– |
| 121s | Josefin: Yeah, it was November/December, depending on if you count the Public Test or not. |
| 126s | Robin: I think this was like, one week before we went on Christmas vacation. I sat down and didn’t have much to do, |
| 134s | and I wanted to do some concept art. I had an idea of Ashlands, or what it could be, and I was thinking a lot |
| 146s | about Terminator 2: Judgement Day the movie. If we could just not go for the classic fire demons and lava golems, |
| 162s | if we could go for something like, more undead. That’s where it all started, I think. |
| 167s | Yeah, somewhere there. That’s where I actually did the concept first, I thought it would be cool |
| 172s | with an undead kinda place with fire, and yeah it just rolled on from there, I guess. |
| 178s | Josefin: Yeah, so the Charred were one of the earliest concept arts then. |
| 181s | Robin: Yes. And they were loosely based on the Terminator T-800 model, ‘cause I thought it would be cool |
| 189s | if you had like these charred skeletons just walking towards the player, not running, just like ever |
| 197s | walking towards the player, trying to catch up and kill you. But yeah, that’s where it started. |
| 204s | Jonathan: Yeah, I think– |
| 204s | Robin: Obviously we have other kinds of creatures as well, sorry Jonathan for cutting you off there– |
| 207s | Jonathan: No |
| 207s | Robin: –but we have other things there as well, but it started with the undead thing. Jonathan, please. |
| 213s | Jonathan: Yeah, I was just– I didn’t wanna cut you off either, but like, I just thought more in the general sense |
| 218s | of creating a biome, I think it’s interesting that when we create a biome– Like in one way we’re saying |
| 224s | we're gonna create a biome, but in a lot of ways it’s like a whole new, I don’t wanna say an expansion, |
| 229s | but a whole new area, which includes a lot of different ingredients. Whereas in some games a biome is more like |
| 235s | reskinning a few different things, have a new area, a little bit of new generation and stuff |
| 239s | and it can be done in a very short time, especially if it’s maybe a smaller game. |
| 244s | But for Valheim it’s really a whole lot of ingredients, working in every single area of the game, |
| 251s | not just reskinning stuff. We want to add new, interesting things, both design-wise, monsters, weapons, and everything, |
| 260s | add some new mechanics that go well with the game, but not try to re-invent everything either, |
| 267s | which is sometimes difficult because we have a lot of cool ideas and we want to think “oh this would be cool, |
| 273s | this would be cool”, but at the same time we don’t want to be building a whole new game in each biome. |
| 279s | I think it’s kind of a balance there, of how much new things should we be doing, |
| 284s | and how much should we be using the current systems that we have. |
| 288s | Robin: And– |
| 289s | Josefin: And it’s– Oh, sorry |
| 290s | Robin: Sorry |
| 290s | Josefin: No, I was gonna say, it’s not something that we can plan out straight from the start either; a lot of it is |
| 297s | very iterative in how we work: You’ll implement something and then you’ll test and then you’ll feel |
| 302s | “oh this is missing”, “we should do this”, or “this didn’t work, we need to recall that and try something |
| 307s | different instead”. Like it’s never a straightforward process, right? |
| 311s | Robin: Yes. That’s absolutely the case. And I think many times when we’re going in and looking at a new biome, |
| 319s | or creating a biome for Mistlands, even back when we were doing Plains – which was called Hearthlands before– |
| 328s | Heathlands before Early Access release. I think what happens every time is that we go back |
| 336s | and look at the Meadows to Black Forest transition, and how that works. I think that is the best version |
| 348s | of how to transition from one biome to the next. Getting a pickaxe as a tool, going into that biome, |
| 355s | looking for the resources, stumbling upon the dungeons, going into dungeons, getting the reward of surtling cores |
| 364s | and finding these new things that you can all of a sudden build that you were not anticipating. |
| 370s | So when we did Mistlands we went back and looked at the Black Forest progression, and I think that |
| 375s | when we did Ashlands we went back and looked at Black Forest to see again. But, with that said, |
| 384s | Mistlands took Black Forest and pushed it even further with the progression there, and we’ve gone |
| 390s | back to doing a little bit more Mistlands-kinda-progression with some added touches, I’d say. |
| 397s | Josefin: But the core mantra is always “What would the Black Forest do?” |
| 400s | Robin: I think so, yeah. I think it’s a perfect way to introduce a– Near perfect way to introduce |
| 406s | the player to a new, scary place and give good rewards and keep things interesting. |
| 411s | We have so many biomes in Valheim and if you just boiled them down into the core ingredients it’s |
| 418s | go in, it’s difficult, get new resource, become master of that biome, kill the boss and continue. |
| 425s | You can only do that so many times before you’re like, “ah, I think I’m done now” [laughter] |
| 433s | Josefin: You need to add something a little bit extra. |
| 435s | Robin: Yeah |
| 436s | Jonathan: I think it was kinda lucky that it worked so well, like the Meadows to the Black forest is a really– |
| 442s | We keep coming back to look at that, and that that first one worked so well was very good because– |
| 449s | I mean it’s the first one that players see and try and that that one works well is good because then they |
| 456s | actually stay in the game rather than if the first one was a bit janky and “it gets better when you get further in”, |
| 462s | then people wouldn’t even get further in because they would maybe be tired of the game already. |
| 467s | I think it’s a good, how do you say– That we go back to the first one and try to somehow make it |
| 473s | feel like the beginning of the game, so that we’re not going crazy in a lot of different directions. |
| 478s | Josefin: Indeed. But let’s move on a little bit in my list of things that I wanna talk to you about. |
| 485s | Something that we have done a bit different during the development of the Ashlands versus the Mistlands, |
| 491s | is that we’ve been showing a lot more to the community. During the Mistlands we were very secretive, |
| 496s | we didn’t show a lot, but this time we have shown enemy concepts, we have shown some weapons, we’ve shown some– |
| 505s | hinted at some of the new mechanics. And what effects do you think that this will have on our development? |
| 513s | Like does that mean that we constrain ourselves to certain things just because we have shown them, |
| 518s | or does it give us more freedom in a way? What do you feel about that? |
| 523s | Jonathan: Yeah, as you said, I think that has been the case in a few different examples where we do show things |
| 529s | and we’re not really sure about everything, but we want to share things which is fun, but then people kinda |
| 533s | make their own idea about what it is and we realise that maybe we don’t know exactly where this is going |
| 537s | and through testing and the iterative process we’re not really sure what we wanna do with this, |
| 542s | but in some ways we’ve already shown off certain things and then we feel that “we might have to cut this part," |
| 548s | people might be disappointed about that, or “can we figure out a way to make it fit”? |
| 553s | I think it’s also fun to share things, but it also makes expectations higher in some ways; we get a lot of comments |
| 560s | and we have to consider those. It also makes people– Progress-wise they think maybe it’s gonna be done soon, |
| 568s | and we will take our time [laughter] finish it and release it when it’s good. |
| 574s | So yeah, I think there’s both good and bad sides to it. |
| 578s | Robin: I agree, there is good and bad in everything, whatever you choose to do. I believe in life needs balance, |
| 586s | everything needs balance. In Mistlands we were very secretively secret. Super secret. |
| 592s | We were the super secret agency of super secrets, and I don’t really think that was a good way to do it? |
| 598s | I’m not sure if I totally like the way that we’re doing it now, ‘cause in my mind I think we lose some of the |
| 608s | interesting jump scares that could happen, or the WTF moments that could happen, if people have already seen– |
| 615s | Josefin: Yeah there’s definitely an element of surprise that we’re not gonna get simply because we’ve shown things. |
| 621s | But we still have some things that we have a hard limit on never showing before |
| 628s | the biome is released, and the audience will not know what that is but…we know. |
| 632s | Robin: Yeah |
| 633s | Jonathan: I think there’s always gonna be a large part of players who will avoid everything and they will still |
| 637s | have these good moments. So the people who really care about it will probably not be spoiled a lot |
| 642s | and we also have those things. I do think it’s a lot more fun for us, and I think it’s important to communicate |
| 648s | with the community, especially since we have a bit longer development time between our updates, |
| 654s | so that we have a little bit more open communication and I hope that that is something |
| 658s | that has been appreciated, but I don’t know. |
| 662s | Robin: I think as long as you just go ahead and say that these things might change, could change and will change, |
| 668s | I think that’s how you safeguard rolling back some features or design choices. In the end of the day |
| 678s | I don’t think it’s always gonna be worth it, like if we have a creature that looks cool and we start creating it, |
| 685s | we have an idea or vision for it, but in game it just doesn’t work? We’ve had that case with the fallen valkyrie. |
| 694s | The fallen valkyrie has gone through so many changes that it’s been like, “okay let’s just kill her off, |
| 700s | let’s take her off the table”. But I think we’re getting into making her feel much, much better, |
| 708s | but she could have gone! And there are so many creatures that could have been in, or could have been taken out. |
| 713s | It’s always gonna be up to us, obviously, but things will change, and have to change, I think. |
| 718s | For the greater good of Valheim. I think that’s a good way to see it. |
| 724s | Josefin: Yeah. And I think that we’re going to take a little bit of a break now, because we’ve gone through some |
| 729s | of the things, and we will return for a second Walk & Talk fairly soon. Thank you for joining me today, |
| 738s | both Robin and Jonathan. |
| 739s | Jonathan: Thank you |
| 740s | Robin: Thank you |