Original Post — Direct link

The Problem

Have you ever felt that your performance in Valorant was subject to a great amount of inconsistency from server to server? Do you ever feel like you can be popping heads one game and then getting wrecked before you can even see the enemy the next game, only for that same enemy to turn into a potato when you spectate your teammates?

Something I've noticed that keeps popping up from time to time in this subreddit is threads of people sharing experiences just like this. Just a quick search of posts about inconsistency and netcode turns up scores of commenters telling the same story.

Top Post or Comment
Valorant feels like the most inconsistent FPS I've ever played
There is something wrong with Valorant and I can't figure it out.
They'll drag their feet for a long time because it will expose all the holes in the game's netcode as well as the cheating.
My problem with DM is that some lobbys there are weird network issues where no matter how sweaty you are you get instakilled 7/10 times. If you play DM enough you know what I’m taking about.
Valorant Servers Having Clear Issues - Netcode In Game & Server Tracing
Knifing the wall
The gunplay in Deathmatch feels incredibly inconsistent.
Why do I feel wildly inconsistent at this game?
Inconsistencies in ranked.
Desync <> Peekers Advantage
Inconsistent performance over and over again
Extremely inconsistent gun play & difficulty holding angles since the last update?
Either players have gotten very very fast or there are server issues.
128 Tick Server Update Patch.
Game to Game Server Consistency

Some of these posts have hundreds or thousands of upvotes. What strikes me about all this is the fact that, despite the lack of concrete evidence to back this up, players have a consistent unifying experience of server variability that spans across both rank and time. Seriously, click the most commented ones and read the anecdotes of radiant and immortal players who independently describe the same problem.

Evidence

There was one thing that was able to demonstrate the variance in servers that may be correlated to what people are experiencing was the knife test. In the most recent patches, the knife impact decal was changed from a server-side effect to a client-side effect. What this means is that you used to be able to preview how bad the desync was before getting into any encounters. If you've experienced desync in the knifing animation, then you'll know that it could occur even without any netstat changes. Clearly, there is a visible difference on one server compared to others as demonstrated by this test, even when ping, packet loss, game-to-render latency, or any other diagnostic we have available to us, do not change.

One other point of interest to me is that multiple separate people, in more than one of these previous discussion posts, point to specifically Patch 0.50 of the beta as the patch where this ghost in the netcode was first introduced to the game. I find it unlikely that people would choose the same patch as the impetus without there being any real issue experienced but given the way smaller sample size of players that were around during the beta, it's difficult to say.

Getting Noticed

There is one big issue with all of this: it hasn't been proven. Even though thousands can feel that there is at least some issue here, there is nothing concrete that can be put forth that would force Riot to investigate, or even make a statement about it. And so far they haven't. As a lower ranked player, I don't think I can say that this issue is something that I definitely experience. At a low rank, you can always just bring better aim to the table and avoid letting netcode be the decider. But I refuse to believe that everyone is making this up. And at higher ranks, where a player's aim is nearing the highest in the game, I think Riot would want players to be certain that skill is the ultimate decider in who wins and who loses, not some buggy netcode. After all, isn't Valorant striving to be the game of competitive integrity?

I know that there are Riot employees who do view this subreddit, probably semi-regularly. I would argue that the knife test on previous patches already demonstrates how different servers can treat people differently, without any relevant network statistic responsible, and that alone would be worth checking out. That, combined with the large amount of anecdotal evidence should surely warrant something.

If you're a Rioter and you're reading this, please, even a corporate-speech-style "We'll look into it" is better than nothing. But this game deserves to be the best it can be, and putting your head into the sand about potential issues is not the way to achieve that.

Edit: From some of the comments, I can see that the way I constructed this post makes it seem like I think this is something that sways the game for me personally. I'm not blaming my performance on any sort of network issue or bug. I'm just interested in the experience reported by others.

External link →
over 2 years ago - /u/shaedyn - Direct link

Hey everyone! I’m on the engineering team that owns competitive integrity & netcode for VAL. No need to jump through hoops or provide definitive proof to get noticed! We’ve been following along with the conversations here, and we’re in the middle of investigating the game-to-game inconsistency that the community has been discussing. We don’t have concrete findings to share yet, but I can provide some details for now on our hypothesis and the steps we’re currently taking.

Some quick basics: The time between firing a shot, that shot taking effect, and you seeing the outcome of that shot are the combination of your ping to the server and remote interp delay (buffering) that happens on either side. For a handy visual, this diagram

from this article attempts to illustrate the full data flow for peekers' advantage.

We do expect the game to feel more or less responsive based on the network conditions between you and the server. We try to mitigate the impact as much as possible, but it’s an unfortunate reality of networked games. However, we don’t expect feel or responsiveness to vary across two matches that you play on roughly the same network route and stack, even when the other players in your game have different networking conditions.

We’ve been following the recent posts (that OP pointed out) around game-to-game inconsistencies, and we’ve felt this in our games as well. A few patches ago, we added some extra performance graphs showing more details on packet loss and transfer rates. As with all of the graphs, our goal is to expose more data to players on what’s happening behind the scenes when they run into issues.

At the same time, we’re currently working to get concrete data proving that “feel” inconsistencies are real and aren’t strictly connection related. Our working theory is that remote interp delay / buffering behavior may be introducing unnecessary delay for some players in some matches. Some buffering is required to smooth out player movement accounting for ping variance and packet loss, but the system is designed to minimize buffering as much as possible.

Our approach is to first improve the internal tooling and data we have to better understand the behavior of the buffering system from game to game (separately from network conditions). That will let us validate any future fixes and will hopefully turn up a smoking gun.

We definitely recognize the amount of discussion around movement and hitreg, and we’re working to get to the bottom of it. We’ll let you know when we have more information, and we’ll try to find some time in the near future to have an AMA, where we can answer further questions and dive a bit deeper into specific topics.

(edit: update on the investigation & progress so far: https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/valorant-gameplay-consistency-update/)

over 2 years ago - /u/shaedyn - Direct link

Originally posted by Sage_The_Panda

Hey! Thank You for the answer!

Do you have some data about problems that Riot mentioned shortly after Beta? I mean: - Problem with animation of model's legs not stopping aka giving us a feeling of enemy 'run&gunning' while in reality the model stopped. - Problem with 'visual' bullet spread aka feeling like we were meant to land 12 bullets on enemy's body, while in reality we landed 2 or 3 bullets.

Those two problems were once mentioned, but we've never gotten any more informations about those.

Also, I'd highly appreciate you explaining those two situations. Both players with 30 ping:

Defender's POV https://clips.twitch.tv/SpookyColdVultureRaccAttack Attack Attacker's POV https://clips.twitch.tv/GlutenFreeObedientPassionfruitFeelsBadMan Edit1: Shazam also reacted to this on Twitter. https://twitter.com/shahzamk/status/1250898743869743104

I've also seen something similar happening to Ethos and FlexNinja that were both streaming and performing an action that looked different on both screens, kinda like in those two clips.

heya, sure thing. I'll take a swing at these:

Problem with animation of model's legs not stopping aka giving us a feeling of enemy 'run&gunning' while in reality the model stopped.

We’ve made a few changes here over time, the main two are:

  1. We tweaked the leg animation blending speed so remote players’ legs visually come to a stop more quickly.
  2. We delayed damage and death events to synchronize with remote players’ movement.

Context for (2) - like I mentioned above, we apply remote interp delay (buffering) to remote players’ movement to prevent players from popping around when network issues arise. Back in beta, we didn’t buffer/delay damage in the same way as movement, meaning you’d see deaths take effect as soon as the info came across the wire. The downside of that approach was that you’d sometimes see people firing shots before their movement showed them coming to a stop (aka running & gunning).

With (2), given all the feedback we’d been getting, we flipped that to delay damage visualization alongside movement. That means you’ll see players shooting you from the correct location and pose, but you’ll be effectively dead for longer without realizing it. In practice, that means there’s a larger window where you can fire shots on your client that the server will reject (u ded). Keep in mind that your death takes effect on the server well before your client gets the memo, so that window always exists (this change just made it longer).

Problem with 'visual' bullet spread aka feeling like we were meant to land 12 bullets on enemy's body, while in reality we landed 2 or 3 bullets.

This could be a few different things, depending on the scenario. There was a short window where we had a bug causing the server & client to disagree slightly on the randomized horizontal portion of the recoil pattern for long sprays, so you might see shots landing that shouldn't. We also made some improvements to visual clarity issues a while back that my colleague discussed in a blog post. It could also be the classic “you landed a few, then you were killed, and the rest were rejected by the server”.

Also, I'd highly appreciate you explaining those two situations. Both players with 30 ping [...]

Ah yeah, that old shaz clip is a good example of what I was talking about above. You’re seeing both players fire a shot around the same time, but Shaz’s opponent’s shot makes it to the server first. He sees his (client predicted) tracer, but the shot is rejected so you don’t see the server hit confirm VFX and other players won’t see his shot go off.

(edit: formatting)

over 2 years ago - /u/shaedyn - Direct link

Originally posted by Eleven918

I just have one question for you, what percentage of the player base do you think this affects when you say "introducing unnecessary delay for some players in some matches" ?

Our existing telemetry includes data on full round trip latencies, but doesn't currently break it down into buffering vs actual time spent on the network. Without that breakdown, we can't yet distinguish between bad connections and potential system issues.

over 2 years ago - /u/shaedyn - Direct link

Originally posted by Eleven918

Ah ok, thanks for the answer!

np!

over 2 years ago - /u/RiotNu - Direct link

Originally posted by LovelyResearcher

Could those adjustments that you try to do to smooth out movement cause a lot of other issues?

Could that "buffering player movement" be why the game often stutters or has hiccups?

For example, when you talked about this

Our working theory is that remote interp delay / buffering behavior may be introducing unnecessary delay for some players in some matches.

Some buffering is required to smooth out player movement accounting for ping variance and packet loss, but the system is designed to minimize buffering as much as possible.

Players are using different routes to connect to the same server or game pod (AWS vs Riot Direct).

Server smooths out movements of enemies whenever they are visible, and the server tries to make things "fair" for players with different pings.

Could this be the cause of all the input latency whenever enemies appear on screen?

My biggest issue with "inconsistency" as an immortal player is due to the game feeling smooth... UNTIL an enemy appears on my screen.

Doesn't seem to matter who's peeking, either.

The feeling remains the same regardless of whether I peek, or get peeked.

  • Input Latency / Mouse Sensitivity
    • Enemy appears
      • Mouse sensitivity feels as if it fluctates or becomes "slower"
      • Input Latency feels much higher, for all inputs (mouse & keyboard both)
      • Variable amount of both input latency and mouse sensitivity feeling noticably "slower" when enemies appear.
      • These variable, fluctating latencies make aiming and movement both feel extremely inconsistent
    • Mutiple enemies appear
      • Game stutters or seems to "stutter / "hiccup" / "freeze"
      • Aim = impossible to adjust
      • Movement = extreme delay, choppy, completely unresponsive
    • Result of fluctating "delay" or "latency"
      • Aiming & Movement = extremely inconsistent
      • Aiming & Movement = choppy
      • Aiming & Movement = not crisp
  • Movement inputs when enemies are on screen
    • General Movements
      • Game feels very "heavy"
      • Harder to move overall
      • Extremely hard disengage or move away
    • Complicated movements (Worst when multiple enemies appear)
      • Ziplines = stuttering & glitchy teleporting
      • Jumping onto boxes = stuttering & glitches off
      • Jumping out of windows = stuttering & fails to work
  • Visual Output (on your screen)
    • Tearing
      • 400FPS feels like 144FPS in gun fights
      • 400FPS feels like 60FPS when enemies appear on your screen
      • 400FPS feels like 10FPS when multiple enemies appear on your screen
      • 240hz often feels like 60hz whenever multiple enemies appear
    • Teleporting
      • Often teleport when trying to do complicated movements... thus unable to execute the desired action.
      • Trying to jump onto objects, take ropes, or take ziplines when enemies are on your screen can cause a ton of rubberbanding
      • When you walk next to teammates you teleport a ton, although this is worse if you have high ping yourself. Still occurs slightly with lower ping.

That may be a messy explanation, but... those are all of the issues that I face daily, whenever I try to play Valorant.

My specifications are:

ASUS B550-F Motherboard

AMD 5800x

360mm iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX Liquid CPU Cooler

4 x 8GB sticks of G.Skill Neo 3600Mhz RAM (32GB total in system)

1TB NVMe M.2 SSDRTX 2080

Much of what you are describing, particularly the input handling sounds like a different problem. Sensitivity feeling different moment to moment would be a very strange client side issue that wouldn’t be explained by any server behavior.

Out of curiosity, are you running an overclock and/or have you modified HPET or other settings that might affect timing? (If you don’t know what these are, the answer is likely no). Do you by chance have ASUS AI Suite 3 installed on the PC?

A 5800X can’t hold 400 FPS in combat, which makes me wonder along this direction.

What’s the poll rate of your mouse? Are you using the raw input buffer?

over 2 years ago - /u/RiotNu - Direct link

Originally posted by LovelyResearcher

  • No Overclock
  • No HPET setting
  • No changes to BIOS (other than setting RAM to the D.O.C.P setting and the case fans to the proper speed)
  • Raw input buffer = Off
    • Have tried "on"
    • On = much more responsive, but makes tracking inconsistent
    • Off = less responsive, but much more consistent and stable
    • I keep it "Off" due to that, and play better with it "Off"
  • Mice used
    • Razer Viper 8Khz (set to normal 1K polling rate, Razer Synapse uninstalled and not used)
    • Zowie EC2-B
    • Zowie S2
    • Zowie FK2-B

All mice display the same issue.

The issues have been present since the Omen bug hotfix in 2020.

Here's that Omen Hotfix time period, although I think October 2020 saw another Omen hotfix... maybe it was October's not this one (?):

https://dotesports.com/valorant/news/omen-temporarily-disabled-in-valorant-after-player-report-game-breaking-bug

Which is odd, I know.

It really wouldn't seem to have much to do with the problem of stuttering, right?

But the previous microstutter "fix" with the playercard issue, uhm... didn't really restore the game to feeling normal?

At least to me, although it did ease the symptoms A LOT

In case it's somehow a real server issue, rather than the netcode, I can tell you the servers that I play on.

I only play on NA Central or NA Eastern servers:

  • Illinois (95%)
  • North Virginia (4%)
  • Georgia (1%)

EDIT: 400+ FPS is totally possible with an AMD 5800x! Comp matches I get around 400 to 600, and in DM it's close to 450 usually.

Here's my proof from a Deathmatch:

Do you have ASUS AI Suite 3 installed?

over 2 years ago - /u/RiotNu - Direct link

Originally posted by LovelyResearcher

  • Don't have AI Suite III installed (never have on this Windows install)
  • Don't have Asus Armoury Crate installed (never have on this Windows install)

I also fresh reinstall Windows completely from a USB drive every 2 weeks to 4 weeks.

  1. Always update all drivers
  2. Always run a DISM + SFC to scan for disk errors
  3. Always use Ethernet
  4. Always use a Gigabit connection

It’s worth reaching out to Player Support if you haven’t already. The input handling item you are describing sounds like it could be explained by something related to timing but doesn’t map to any known issue I am aware of from your answers. I will note that the FPS numbers you are reporting are not close to normal for that CPU.

over 2 years ago - /u/RiotNu - Direct link

Originally posted by LovelyResearcher

UnrealEngine version 4.25 is what Valorant currently uses, right?

Would that not be a potential cause of a lot of these bugs?

I feel that most of the issues we struggle with are due to "hitching", more than anything else.

I'll admit I have no clue about the game engine.

But would any of the "fixes" in UE 4.26 / UE 4.27, could potentially help at all?

The ones listed below seem really interesting interesting to me, since they mention networking improvements and fixes for hitches.

Would none of these affect Valorant positively, if the game were upgraded to UE 4.26?

Unreal Engine 4.26

  • Networking Improvements
    • Improvements
      • "We made performance improvements to the networking Blueprints to avoid bottlenecks and disconnections. The network settings have been tuned for high load so you can have more participants with smoother object manipulation and movements"
  • Physics
    • New:
      • Implemented basic network replication for geometry conditions to correct the client. The replication can cause differing results with stacked objects since the client can run simulations between updates without prediction
  • Optimizations
    • Bug Fix:
      • Reenabled and fixed dedicated memory allocations (used by NVIDIA cards). Allocations can never be reused as they are tied to the image.
      • Fixed ref counting in FRenderTargetPool::FreeUnusedResource so that it frees resources correctly.
    • New:
      • Added a batched RT material gather pipeline using batched / parallelized API. This saves ~50% of the RHI thread critical path time.
      • Enabled r.Streaming.UseAsyncRequestsForDDC by default. This enables async DDC requests by default to prevent stalling the editor when the shared DDC network is slow.
    • Improvement:
      • Optimization of CREATE_NOT_ZEROED to reduce hitches on Windows 10 build 2004 and later.
  • XR
    • Bug Fix
      • Improved frame pipelining in the OpenXR plugin to eliminate hitches.

These are unlikely to be relevant.

over 2 years ago - /u/RiotNu - Direct link

Originally posted by LovelyResearcher

1440p is probably a problem, I guess?

Along with only using two sticks of RAM with your zen3 processor.

Using 1080p instead of 1440p, would help a lot, I think.

But it still looks like you should still be getting around 350 to 400 frames, tho... at least if you watch other people with an AMD 5800x on 1440p:

https://youtu.be/u5WYGke9MJw?t=290

You'd gain 5% to 10% performance by swapping to 4 sticks of RAM rather than using two sticks, like the video mentioned here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UkGu6A-6sQ

I personally use 4 sticks of RAM with the 5800x, but happen to adore using 1280x960 as my resolution.

  • During competitive match
  • Right after killing 4 enemy players, while healing myself
  • Never dropped below around 450FPS the whole round

If my values are abnormal, I don't know why.

But the benchmark videos for VALORANT with AMD Zen3 processors replicate my values, though...

they average 350FPS to 700FPS

Just saw this comment fork. All these numbers are surprisingly high for that hardware, which makes me suspect something is off timing wise. Do you have any idea what might not be default about your setup?

over 2 years ago - /u/RiotNu - Direct link

Originally posted by LovelyResearcher

I don't really know to be honest... typically, I just use the default BIOS settings.

Exceptions in BIOS:

  • Turn D.O.C.P on
  • Set the case fans to "quiet" rather than the "standard" setting, since I don't like them being super loud when playing.
  • Disable onboard audio as I use a Fiio E10K Dac/Amp

Windows Settings:

  • Power Plan ---> High Performance
  • Disable Game Mode
  • Disable Game Bar
  • Disable all background processes under the Privacy Tab
  • Use EmptyStandby as a task that's scheduled to run every 5 minutes to clear standby memory

Nvidia Settings:

  • Power Management Mode ---> Perfer Maximum Performance
  • Texture Filtering Quality ---> High Performance
  • Low Latency Mode ---> Ultra
  • Perform Scaling ---> Display
  • Perform Scaling ---> Override the scaling mode set by games and programs

So I don't really know why.

Besides that I'd only guess that maybe it's the 360mm AIO part that would make the performance be higher?

That said, even if my framerate is high in-game... I still have the same performance issues I mentioned earlier.

A lot of other people have messaged me after I made my comment, and they've said that they also experience the same problems.

  1. "Sluggishness when aiming"
  2. "Stuttering when seeing enemies"

If you haven’t already, you might try resetting everything to default except DOCP and see it that makes any difference.

EDIT: I would also probably try dropping the memory task.

over 2 years ago - /u/RiotNu - Direct link

Originally posted by LovelyResearcher

I've tried deleting the EmptyStandby before, but I couldn't really tell that much of a difference.

Going to try what you said now.

  • Delete EmptyStandby task
  • Reset BIOS to default, and only enable D.O.C.P (turning on-board audio on, and case fans to standard)

For reference, I also just did a benchmark thingie using my setup the way it is right now.

Before doing those changes:

https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/49886146

Sounds good. Case fan and onboard audio likely won’t matter for VAL either. Interested in your results.

over 2 years ago - /u/RiotNu - Direct link

Originally posted by LovelyResearcher

Thanks so much for all of your replies, you're really the best <3

Using BIOS settings and deleted EmptyStandby task, as you suggested.

Played a deathmatch just now while using the suggested changes, and snapped a few screenshots of the in-game stat graphs.

I'll attach those below.

Stat Graphs #1

  • CPU, GPU, Memory stats

Stat Graphs #2

  • Networking stats

Spooky. Will think more. There’s something we are missing.

about 2 years ago - /u/shaedyn - Direct link

Originally posted by Sage_The_Panda

Thanks for the answer!

  1. As for the Shazam's clip - I actually meant attacker's PoV being much slower than what Shaz as defender got to see.

If you look closely - Attacker firstly peeks, notices Shaz, performs a 'stutter step' again like short peek and then shoots.

What defender sees? Just ferrari peek and insta shoot. Shaz had 0 time to react, even tho on attacker's PoV we clearly see Shaz should have been able to kill him as he had enough of time.

About that 4/5 bullet - Sure, it's a common thing. Shazam was already dead to server.

Still - such 'ferrari' peek looking diffent with 0 time to react is common, especially in DM.

What's the theory behind it? Shouldn't it work slightly different way? Why the peekers advantage feeling is so huge in Valorant even tho while watching one of Riot's video(december2021) about server etc it seems like the manufacture is pretty solid and peeker's advantage should really be minimized.

There are also scenarios like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiuDn2LSI08

  1. Considering an enormous amounts of posts with different kind of theories like netcode, hit registry, all of the servers - What people have rights to complain about? Or it's still being under investigation?

I've read once one of the blogs and one of Rioters claimed that hit registry is on point/works correct, so I believe we can trust you all in terms of that.

What is Riot currently happy about in terms of 'server' and 'ingame duel' like aspects? like: - Hit Registration - Visual Clarity - Peekers Advantage and other things that matter in terms of competitive optimization of the game

  1. If you find the source of problem - The fix can be expected to take a place within weeks or months? Like how 'deep' the problem can be? How long it might take to find it and fix the source of it?

Such things are more than important as the whole game, its consistency/feeling and gunplay are just... too important to not get adressed asap. From what you already mentioned - we can expect the AMA soon, right?

  1. Patch 0.50 has been multiple times mentioned as the one who killed Valorant's experience. I myself also claim they game no longer offers the same feeling/smoothness every since that.

Could something happend around that period? Is there any data about it or community(including me) thinks incorrect way?

If you look closely - Attacker firstly peeks, notices Shaz, performs a 'stutter step' again like short peek and then shoots.

What defender sees? Just ferrari peek and insta shoot. Shaz had 0 time to react, even tho on attacker's PoV we clearly see Shaz should have been able to kill him as he had enough of time.

This clip is a good illustration of the tradeoffs for visualizing damage immediately vs delaying it to sync to character movement.

The build they were playing on is from before we synced movement and damage, so you see AZK's initial step out from cover, then Shaz's client learns that he died from the server and we show it immediately. As Shaz's body starts to cover the camera, you can see AZK start to step, continuing his movement to where he had fired the shot on his screen.

In VAL today, we'd wait to show Shaz that he was dead until AZK completed the sidestep, but any shots Shaz fired during that window would be rejected. The peek would look less Ferrari-like, but the result would be the same - it's just a question of whether seeing Ferrari peeks or having more of his shots get rejected is a better experience for Shaz.

If you find the source of problem - The fix can be expected to take a place within weeks or months? Like how 'deep' the problem can be? How long it might take to find it and fix the source of it?

Honestly, there are a lot of different factors that go into how gun duels play out. Netcode, remote interp delay, character animations, weapon balance, movement inaccuracy tuning and ping variance in lobbies - all of these things can impact how duels are taken, how they feel, and what their outcome is. Until we have more information on what's going on, it's hard to give any reliable timeline estimates. For now, the best I can say is that we're investigating this and it's a priority for us.

Patch 0.50 has been multiple times mentioned as the one who killed Valorant's experience. I myself also claim they game no longer offers the same feeling/smoothness every since that.

We've reviewed the changes that went into v0.50 a couple times in the past, but I'll take another pass through the list tomorrow. As far as I can remember, we didn't make any significant changes to netcode or hitreg around that time, but there were some tuning changes to how movement inaccuracy works that could impact aggressive peeking that we can review.

about 2 years ago - /u/shaedyn - Direct link

Originally posted by IBlubbi

Hey!, thank you for the indepht explanation on your approach to this problem. I figured I would use this to maybe get an answer on something that has been annoying me ever since you added the option to choose wich servers to queue on.

What is bothering me the most in my games (EU Immortal 2-3) is peekers advantage when playing against players with a high ping (60+). You basically have to swing as you just get killed with no time to react when holding angles. The guy that swings gets a way to big advantage. Being forced to swing certain angles that you would rather be holding due to high ping players just takes away from the tactical experience one would expect from a tac shooter at the high ranks.

I have had so many games were the the top fragging duelist had a ping of 80-100+, which I have never experienced in say CSGO (playing with high ping in CS is just a horrible experience, whereas in valorant you are completely fine as long as you are the one peeking for some reason).

That is not to say that people that have no server with good ping to connect to should not be able to play the game properly. I am sure the system is set up this way to give people with a bad connection a fair shot at competing.

But why are people that have servers with a 30 or lower ping available to them allowed to voluntarily choose to queue on a server with a way worse ping??? (looking at for example frankfurt-servers where the majority of players appear to be turks that rather play with 60+ ping than queuing on istanbul fsr).

I would much rather wait a bit longer for my games if that ment getting games with rather evenly distributed ping ranges. Who knows, having evenly distributed ping ranges across players and games might even be benefitial for a more consistent game to game experience as you wont have those games against high ping teams that just seemingly"ferrari peak" you on every angle.

Hey blubbi, thanks for sharing that. It’s a good point about how allowing server selection can negatively impact match quality. That’s one of the unfortunate consequences of peeker’s advantage - players with high ping are very disadvantaged if they try to hold angles. It incentivizes those high ping players to always run around corners, which as you say, takes away from the slower, more methodical experience that you tend to see on LAN or low ping environments.

We try to balance the benefits that players & parties get from being able to specify server preferences with the impact that could have on other players' experiences. Server preference is just one factor that gets fed into the matchmaker, which gets considered alongside other match quality factors to put you in a game.

I'm not an expert here, so I can't personally speak to any changes we'd consider. I'll bring up your feedback and suggestions with others on the dev team who know more though. We may also consider other changes that can reduce how effective players can be with aggressive peeks.

about 2 years ago - /u/shaedyn - Direct link

Originally posted by SAD66

Wow, thanks for giving us some insight into how things work behind the scenes!
I've had one personal observation (that might be just in my head) which could be responsible for some of the inconsistency. When counterstrafing it feels like sometimes I'm at my most accurate when I take a shot in the middle of the counter strafe (when effectively stopped), but other times it feels like I'm much more accurate if I shoot later, after I've already started moving the other direction. Is movement inaccuracy calculated on the server side? And, if so, is it possible that in some situations the server thinks you're moving when you took the shot, but on your client you took the shot when standing still?

hey, Sad. In theory, the server should be playing back your movement, triggers, and other inputs at a delay but otherwise synchronized to how you played them on your client. Having said that, we'll still go add some extra checks to our client/server shot result validation to double check that movement and inaccuracy states agree. Appreciate the tip!

about 2 years ago - /u/shaedyn - Direct link

Originally posted by JauxPlays

Hello! Appreciate the detailed post! Have a quick one for packet loss if you don't mind.

Why is packet loss intermittent for my games? Some games I jump in and get around 30% packet loss which is just unplayable tbh. So I quit my client, reconnect my lan cable, get back in the game and mostly solves my packet loss down to 0% so I don' t think it has something to do with my ISP maybe? Any in-game solution I can do to prevent packet loss?

Hey Jaux, it's hard to say with packet loss, since it's typically an issue with your network or ISP. Packets could get dropped anywhere along the route between you and the game server. If the issue persists for a while, your ISP or network admin are usually your best bet to help diagnose where the issue is occurring. Letting them know may also help them identify or confirm a hardware problem if other folks in your area have reported similar issues.

The only valorant-related packet loss issue that I've come across recently was due to a few players' networks not being able to keep up with Val's packet send rate when running at high framerates (>144 FPS). As an experiment, you could try limiting your framerate to 60 when you're seeing packet loss. Limiting framerate also reduces packet send rate, so that test would help you determine whether it's send-rate related.

about 2 years ago - /u/shaedyn - Direct link

Originally posted by itap89

Would it be possible or practical to have a stat that shows whether shots are being rejected by the server?

We've actually talked about adding this a few times in the past, but never prioritized it. We weren't sure whether it would be valuable or just triggering, especially since dropping some shots is unavoidable around death (and you usually already know when it happened). I'll bring it up again with the team though - thanks for the suggestion.

about 2 years ago - /u/shaedyn - Direct link

Originally posted by itap89

No problem. One more thing. I notice the game tends to switch to a higher buffer when the network becomes unstable. Then once the network does become stable again, the game takes a moment then returns back to lowest buffer. Is it possible to have this as a stat as well?

No problem. One more thing. I notice the game tends to switch to a higher buffer when the network becomes unstable. Then once the network does become stable again, the game takes a moment then returns back to lowest buffer. Is it possible to have this as a stat as well?

Yes actually - we're planning to add a graph showing that buffering as part of this investigation. :]

about 2 years ago - /u/shaedyn - Direct link

Originally posted by Sage_The_Panda

I appreciate you coming back to this post to provide more info!
Thank You, I didn't actually expect such detailed answer!

I'm happy you're aware there's some kind of problem and decided to make it a priority to find it and fix it. It only confirms that Valorant would get better and better.

I'm praying you'd get enough of information about what's going on and manage to fix it as soon as possible, at best this year(praying!).

If I had to sum up my experience before patch 0.50 - Have you played Counter Strike Source? Models there 'die' pretty responsive way, right? I know it's also because of the engine, but forget about it for a second.
Or If you watch one of commercial videos about Valorant like the one about Yoru or Alpha state of 'Project A'(with known 'precise gunplay) - in both of those cases the registration and movement feels on 'point', which no longer felt this way after 0.50

Idk how much of a 'hint' it is, I trust y'all about it.

I'd forget - About 2-3 updates ago, the 'packet sent rate' being incorrect for users with higher FPS was meant to be fixed, right? Since that the whole graph seems to look correct to any FPS gap.
I'm not sure If It's placebo or no, but locking FPS at '128' still seems to give far 'smoother'/responsive gameplay.
Multiple people also mentioned it around subreddit and discord servers.
As long as it's not placebo, I think it might be worth taking a look, as even I'm not sure what to think about this one(it can be placebo at some point).

I'm really happy to read you've already checked patch 0.50 in Riot and that you're willing to review potential changes that could impact 'aggressive peeking'.

I think more people should actually see all of the informations you've shared here.
Did you think, as Riot, to make some kind of a 'blog' statement about it? Considering informations were already shared here.

We’ll plan to share back findings once we wrap up the investigation and/or have potential changes going out. For now, we’re heads down and focused on the work.

about 2 years ago - /u/shaedyn - Direct link

Originally posted by PM_ME_UR_TIDDIES69

Hey! Have you made any progress on this situation? I would really like to be up to date on these things than finding things out on patch day or not at all.

To me, the inconsistency feels like this. One game I can hold an angle and kill anyone who peeks it. Jump into next match, same map, same angle and sometimes it's like their player model is moving very jittery and fast and it's impossible to hit that shot. I have also noticed on London(40ms ping) some games it feels like shots land nearly instantly and sometimes there's a slight delay. Not as big a delay like with the alt+tab bug, but noticeable nonetheless.

Hey, thanks for the extra info. We've found a couple issues that would cause the symptoms you're describing - effectively adding a small, random amount of client and/or server latency into some matches that can impact how delayed enemy movement appears. We're in the process of fixing those and wrapping up investigations in a few other areas.

If you have any video captures of the jittery movement that you're seeing, feel free to DM them to me and I can review. Also - once the fixes go live, let me know whether they resolve the issues you're seeing. We're planning to ship a couple extra debug graphs alongside the fixes that show details on client/server buffering, which should hopefully highlight any remaining issues if you're still having trouble.

As for timeline, we won't know which patch we're targeting until we wrap up the full investigation and go through internal testing. The current plan is to put out a blog post with details / timeline once we have more info, and to test any fixes on PBE before they go live.

about 2 years ago - /u/shaedyn - Direct link

Originally posted by Jeathiopia

It's been a while since I've seen any news about this issue. I've been eagerly waiting. I'm not sure if I've missed something. If I haven't, can you give us a small status update? Are you guys still working on it? Is it high/low priority? I hope I don't sound impatient; I'm okay with waiting as long as I need to as long as we all know it's still on the dev team's radar.

hey - sorry for the delay here. It took longer that we anticipated to get an update through the pipeline and up on the blog. Here are some details on our approach and findings so far:

https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/valorant-gameplay-consistency-update/