Original Post — Direct link

Nearly two weeks ago in the the patch 2.0 AMA in this sub, r/RiotPizzagram confirmed that there would be penalties for character select dodging. I personally believe these have been silently shipped in a recent patch and will provide my rational further below. First I would like to explain why I'm firmly against these harsher penalties.

RiotPizzagram statement.

  1. Dodging improves overall game quality.
    When you join a lobby and it is populated by either toxic people or people without mics you are certain that you will be at a disadvantage going in to the game. This is a big deal when playing ranked. I understand Riot does not endorse dodging neither in League or Valorant because it increases queue times and makes the getting into the game part quality worse, but I strongly believe that it is worth it to get into a game after a couple people dodged than it is to be forced to play a game where you are at a disadvantage from the start. It just does not feel right.
  2. Correctly dodging is a skill.
    I am not in favor of completely removing penalties of queue dodging, at the end of the day it slightly lowers the character select quality of other players. I personally think that having the old queue penalties were sufficient but if there needs to be harsher punishment may I suggest implementing the same system as in League. Simply remove 3 - 5 RR but leave the MMR of the dodger unaffected this plus the old queue penalty is more that enough to discourage most unnecessary dodges. I believe that being able to dodge certain games is a skill, because you have to outweigh the reward ( not having to play a lost game) vs the punishment. Mastering dodging raises the skillcap of Ranked.
  3. Longer queue penalties will result in people not being able to play that day.
    If the queue penalties have increased like I have been recently experiencing than this will limit the amount of time people can play the game. Most people do not have multiple hours available when they want to play the game, longer queue penalties for dodging a game that would have been started as a disadvantage would mean not being able to play for some players. Which would eventually lead these players to leave Valorant.

Example of queue penalty.

Why I believe that these harsher penalties have silently shipped:

The last few days I have gotten insane queue penalties for my first dodge after multiple completed games whereas a couple of weeks ago the queue penalties were significantly lower the first one 3 min the second 30 min and so on. I have even gotten a queue penalty after winning a ranked game (Proof!). A couple games later I dodged again and I received a 2hr+ queue penalty, insane. A final point I would like to make is that queue dodging from unranked and ranked should be handled differently.

TLDR: Dodging should not be punished harsher and is an essential part of the game!

External link →
almost 4 years ago - /u/EvrMoar - Direct link

Dodging once a night is probably okay.

Unfortunately, if you are entering into ranked, you are agreeing to play by ranks rules and your skill is weighed against such. If you can manipulate the map you play on, the rank of your teammates, etc. That's manipulating the queue to manipulate your rank - in turn not playing fairly.

Yes, we are okay with you dodging maybe a toxic team or having a real life issue come up. But when some players wait 5+ minutes to find a fair match, and have 4+ dodges in a row, it is a super unhealthy experience and queue manipulation as well. Allowing more dodges also opens us up to easier win trading, allowing players to potentially find specific matches easier.

You can dodge, on occasion, but you shouldn't be dodging often to manipulate queue. We will probably always be looking at the punishments, and adjusting if necessary, but we need to collect data and see how people are playing in the new rules when we change them.

I know it's frustrating not being able to dodge as much as you use to. A lot of times in game development it's harder to make the rules more restricting, then to launch the game with restricting rules and lessen them. It's the view that you are taking something away, instead of giving the players more freedom. We understand it can be frustrating, but we also want to maintain a healthy queue and try to curb match manipulation.

almost 4 years ago - /u/EvrMoar - Direct link

Originally posted by EvrMoar

Dodging once a night is probably okay.

Unfortunately, if you are entering into ranked, you are agreeing to play by ranks rules and your skill is weighed against such. If you can manipulate the map you play on, the rank of your teammates, etc. That's manipulating the queue to manipulate your rank - in turn not playing fairly.

Yes, we are okay with you dodging maybe a toxic team or having a real life issue come up. But when some players wait 5+ minutes to find a fair match, and have 4+ dodges in a row, it is a super unhealthy experience and queue manipulation as well. Allowing more dodges also opens us up to easier win trading, allowing players to potentially find specific matches easier.

You can dodge, on occasion, but you shouldn't be dodging often to manipulate queue. We will probably always be looking at the punishments, and adjusting if necessary, but we need to collect data and see how people are playing in the new rules when we change them.

I know it's frustrating not being able to dodge as much as you use to. A lot of times in game development it's harder to make the rules more restricting, then to launch the game with restricting rules and lessen them. It's the view that you are taking something away, instead of giving the players more freedom. We understand it can be frustrating, but we also want to maintain a healthy queue and try to curb match manipulation.

Also, issues like "my teammates are toxic" or "This guy is chat restricted I don't want to play with him" are issues we can solve without you needing to dodge. We need to make sure toxicity is reduced, and that chat restricted players can't play ranked, along with other changes to curb the actual issue instead of you feeling you need to dodge. Solving those issues will make it so you feel the need to dodge less frequently, resulting in less dodges and more faith in match making.

almost 4 years ago - /u/EvrMoar - Direct link

Originally posted by FlakersWasTaken

Thanks allot for the nuanced answer! I do really understand the reason for the adjustment also I have faith in the development team that they will keep finetuning where needed.

But can I count this respons as a confirmation that the harsher punishment have shipped? If so are we allowed to know what the exact changes were?

I don't know if any changes were made, that's the Social and Player Dyanmics team. That being said, I just wanted to give info on what we are thinking about for competitive queue. So sorry, I just don't know if anything changed, but I do know we have plans to help combat dodging/afk in the future.