We're seeing an increase in posts about a competitive ranked bug occurring. Competitive as a game mode is not currently functioning as intended. These posts are currently considered reposts and we will be removing them to keep the discussion consolidated to the existing threads. Riot has stated they're aware of the situation and are actively fixing.External link →
Originally posted by DentedOnImpact
Edit: see below!
In that case consider this us saying publicly that this bug has only been in the game for a few hours, and was only introduced today, and has been fixed already. The issue was only visual, and your rank icon will re-align to your rank data on your next win :)
Originally posted by TimeJustHappens
No matter how minor or major this issue actually was, it is going to be the excuse of the century for why people got demoted the amount they did.
Can confirm the issue was minor (visual discrepancy between rank icon and your rank data, but rank data was not impacted). And I sure hope you're not right, but you may be :P
Originally posted by YaBoiZJay
The whole game has issues bruh like fix it already
Working on it, will have them all resolved by tomorrow, starting with this one already fixed. Apologies for any disruption, always welcome bug reports sent to us via player support so we can expedite and always welcome feedback on where we can better invest our attention
Originally posted by DentedOnImpact
Get ready for people who aren’t programmers to think this is how code works
Get ready for the Rioter who confirms it only occurred today, only lasted a few hours, only impacted NA, has been fixed, was only visual and no player rank data was actually impacted, isn't long-term and rank icons will visually re-align with rank data with next win.
Originally posted by woopsifarted
Wait but people have been talking about how they get 3 games with tripld green arrows then demoting after 1 loss for soooo long. Are you guys acting like it was only for a day to feel better or what? Cause it's been an issue for a while
Seeing 3 games with triple green arrows then demoting after 1 loss would be a strong anomaly. For such a thing to occur the player would need to have had a train-wreck of a loss, and I'd encourage screenshots to see Match History to better assess the individual situations and ensure they're legitimate too
Originally posted by UncomfortablePrawn
This doesn't really make sense as an explanation for why it happens the way people are saying it does. I don't understand why it's so difficult to 1) implement a system that is already tried and tested in League and 2) have more transparency about it.
League has a pretty fair and simple ranking system - every game you win earns you anywhere from 15-25 points, you get into promos when you reach 100 points. If you lose, you lose about the same amount, usually slightly less. That's the key idea. It means that if you maintain win rates about 50%, you will still improve.
Over time, as people play, they will end up where they're supposed to and hover around there. This also does ensure a normal distribution, because it still ends up with the majority of the playerbase falling within Silver to Plat, as is the intention.
What seems to be happening here is that games are being weighted very differently to an almost unfair level. If you can win 3 games and be demoted from losing 1 game, it means that the weightage of the 3 games is each less than 33% of the loss's points, which is pretty hard to justify. Unlike League, this means that you may essentially have to maintain a >75% win rate, in addition to solid KD every game, to gain ranks, which is rather ridiculous.
To address the series of comments; I'd be able to give much better insight if I had Match History screenshots to reference. It's incredibly difficult to explain the outcome of a situation that is determined by performance without specifics based on vague descriptions of what occurred.
One thing to keep in mind is that we currently show 3 levels of granularity for rank increase, but only 1 level for rank decrease. That doesn't mean you only ever lose small amounts of rank on a loss; you could be losing significant rank from sizable losses.
Another thing to keep in mind is that rank levels are a range, and not a binary climb. Meaning that a recent promotion could have you only on the cusp of being in that rank bracket, able to slide back out easily if you under perform in your future games. And equally a demotion doesn't mean you fell to the floor of that rank bracket, but could equally be on the cusp of getting back up again if you play well.
The last and most important thing to keep in mind, is the system is ultimately striving to place you where it considers you belong. If your match quality has been good (fewer stomps) and you're gravitating between the same rank brackets, it's likely that you're where you belong and aren't intended to continually promote indefinitely.
That all said we are evaluating our current implementation, and are digesting a lot of player feedback to consider how we can iterate on it to meet some of the expectations we're hearing. Please keep them coming!
Lastly I'm glad that you like the League system, but those comparisons aren't too applicable as we have wildly different approaches and are specifically trying to achieve different goals. At a foundation level League's rank system only considers win/lose and see's large seasonal rank resets to offset the gradual climb, both of which we're trying something different towards.
If nothing else let me assure you that you don't need anything close to a >75% winrate to gain ranks, and we've invested heavily in our data analytics to inform us of our KPIs across rank, queue and match quality to ensure we're meeting our aggressive competitive, fair and balanced targets. I hope if nothing else your match quality is indicative of this.
We hope we can achieve an approach that satisfies a majority of our audience (a ranked system will never please everyone, the same to be said of Leagues too) and hope you'll stick with us whilst we get there.
Originally posted by stakkkkk
The guy who was handling ranked leaves Riot. They are hiring a new guy for that. This can explain a lot too...
Edit : no clue. Just some quote out of context heared from a guy who hear something on Morelo's Twitch if I remember correctly. Don't take it.
This is an awkward baseless rumor from an out of context quote. Let me assure you that there's a sizable team that works on ranked, and has done for many years now and will continue to do so.
Originally posted by bradpittisnorton
Is it really just NA? I'm not from NA so I'm not sure if I was affected or ranking after placement matches are just unstable.
After my placement matches put me at Gold 2, I won 2 more games and I was still at Gold 2. The second one even said I gained a significant amount of points toward my next rank. In my third game, I got queued with silvers vs a team of golds, and we lost and I deranked to Gold 1.
Was only just NA. Coming out of your placement matches its fairly common to see frequent rank adjustment as the system is assessing where you belong based on your performance. Keep playing and trying your best, and if you're outperforming at your level you'll promote up, and if you're under performing at your level you'll go down. If you're meeting your expectations and stagnating between the same ranks, then you've likely met your level and should see more infrequent adjustments.
Originally posted by Pkelove
I happen to work on the competitive team that owns ranked, hence being vocal in topics that discuss ranked. I wouldn't be much value in topics around hit reg, but I trust in the team that own that to address feedback and concerns, and consider it in the work they're doing. It's an area of our game that has a lot of investment and passion invested into it.
Originally posted by SaltEEnutZ
I'd love to get a little more insight on the ranked system in the future, obviously, I appreciate there's probably a lot of not relevant stuff but I've had a friend of mine who can win let's say 6 in a row and not rank up and then lose a single game to rank down.
Mind you his performances in those games weren't awful, around 1.0 KD
It's at the forefront of my teams considerations right now, and we're assessing options to respond to feedback like this. Please bare with us whilst we iterate and hopefully reach a point that resolves your concerns.
There was a separate unrelated bug that caused our new competitive overtime to revert back to sudden death. Apologies for any confusion that occurred with this!
Originally posted by SmolG0rl
@riotwozzer can you please explain the rank system? I went on a win streak and have nothing to show for it. All of these green arrows and top fragging and my rank is the same. Is there a link explaining how many point we need to rank and how many points per green upward arrow you get?
I'd need a screenshot of your Match History to be able to go into specifics. It's difficult to describe what's occurring with a vague description like that I'm afraid. It's possible that you're simply performing at the expectations of you, so are only seeing gradual increases. But I'd rather not speculate without a history to reference.
Originally posted by do0rkn0b
what are you going to do about your client constantly crashing and people getting hour bans because of it? anything?
Please contact Player Support with any and all context you can provide for the crash you are encountering. It sounds like you have a technical issue that we could help investigate; we certainly don't see high crash occurrences for the majority of our players.
Originally posted by _regan_
does riot plan on letting users actually seeing their rank data? would be better quality of life if we could see our actual mmr increases and decreases like in overwatch and rainbow 6.
To share what I posted just a little above; it's at the forefront of my teams considerations right now, and we're assessing options to respond to feedback like this. Please bare with us whilst we iterate and hopefully reach a point that resolves your concerns. :)
Originally posted by 19Dan81
At a foundation level League's rank system only considers win/lose and see's large seasonal rank resets to offset the gradual climb, both of which we're trying something different towards.
I have probably been the biggest critic of Valorants ranked competitive mode since its release in beta. I have been critical because I care about Valorants future as an esport and as a game that will be something that keeps players invested long term and it succeeds as an ecosystem for Valorant esports.
I have months of complaints and worries regarding player retention through this system and its integrity. League of Legends has successfully ticked all the boxes when it comes to a competitive ranked mode; it provides an in-game esports ecosystem, it provides players a platform for self improvement through a visual progression system that reflects their time invested and it provides the matchmaker with mostly good matchups using accurate player skill determination data. The same can be said for Overwatch - it ticks all the same boxes.
So why does the team behind Valorant take a drastically different approach? There's a reason Overwatch still has a thriving playerbase that's invested in its ranked mode and there's a reason LoL has become the juggernaut it is. Valorant competitive ranked mode doesn't tick any of the boxes that suggest the mode is worthy of time investment. It doesn't provide the matchmaker with accurate player skill data, it doesn't provide a platform for upcoming talents. What is does do is make people frustrated with its lack of visual progression, frustrated at the dynamic flex queue and the effect that has on assigning rank and the effect it has on solo queue players feeling isolated by the 3 and 4 stack groups they're paired with.
The whole system feels unrewarding and when a player feels like their time isn't respected they look for competition elsewhere like we've seen in Faceit and ESEA. Valorant needs a system where rank feels earned, relative and respected by the player and the community - without that it all just feels meaningless and shallow. This cannot be ignored. If you would like, I could link you numerous statements from several high profile pro players, journalists and content creators that will tell you the exact same thing.
I want it to work as much as you guys do. Right now, it's not full filling it's purpose.
Firstly, I'm glad that you care about our competitive future. I also am invested heavily and care deeply for it too.
The systems you have referenced have some fantastic elements that we share in some aspects and are considering for the future in others. They also have some shortcomings, to which you can no doubt find many frequent criticisms in their respective game reddits also. We don't want to clone what exists, we want to ensure what we have for Valorant works for Valorant, and if we need to iterate to get there we hope it'll be worth it in the long run. We're in it for the long term, as I hope as a player of League you can believe us on that at least.
I appreciate the feedback you're giving here, and as a point of feedback in return please try to avoid conflating personal opinion with facts. To reference one example, we're actually finding that the player skill data (among other data points) has us seeing match quality that aligns to our aggressive targets. I hope you're seeing this on your end in your games, aside to the criticisms you may have to our current ranked approach.
We're a month or so into Valorant, and we have a long road ahead of us with many planned iterations and additions to come for ranked play as well as learnings we'll have and adjustments we'll make alongside our players. Both of the examples you've given, League and Overwatch, iterated heavily on their initial offerings too. As ever please bare with us and trust that we have the best intentions in mind, are investing heavily in this space and will continue to iterate and digest feedback as we move forward.
Originally posted by do0rkn0b
I think you're missing the point, if you're able to log someone crashing then why are they being punished? An hour ban for crashing or even just leaving (which is not the case here) at hero select is asinine.
No player will be given an hour long ban for leaving agent select. The penalty starts at 3minutes and ramps up over time, over repeated occurrences.
In regards to why we punish; this system is in place in order to ensure the majority of players get a fair and balanced game. It's never fun when you have teammates AFK putting you at a disadvantage for what is essentially a ~45minute time commitment for the ~9 other players. In general players seek for us to have a deterrent, these punishments, to encourage not leaving the game.
The unfortunate side of that is legitimate reasons (crashes, ISP fell over, dog ate your mouse cable, etc) need to be punished, as there's no way to determine legitimate reasons vs general game abandonment. If we forgave crashes, we'd quickly see players forcing their clients to crash in order to dodge penalties. It's also why we lean on giving short punishments that scale to get more severe on repeat offenses.
That's why I gave the advice of contacting Player Support, so we can help dig into the root cause and hopefully resolve your crashing issue so that you can join the majority of players that benefit from the system being implemented as it is.
Originally posted by 19Dan81
To reference one example, we're actually finding that the player skill data (among other data points) has us seeing match quality that aligns to our aggressive targets. I hope you're seeing this on your end in your games, aside to the criticisms you may have to our current ranked approach.
Without knowing the data you're referring to one can only assume you're talking about match win/loss margins across each ranking tier? If indeed that is the case, then I would like to counter that data with what I and others feel in game. We feel the outcome is largely determined by stack size and raid boss Matchmaking with the individual having little effect on the win/loss margins the system is using as a basis for MMR movements. This obviously is a system that feels designed towards an assumption that it's 5 stack vs 5 stack.
We see support players that aren't earning First Blood bonuses net a significant lower MMR gain. We see players in all ranking tiers looking lost and out of place. I appreciate you taking a new approach but the discontent towards the system is very real. https://twitter.com/Subroza/status/1285660284762423296?s=20 this was just a couple of hours ago.
People in lower to mid ranked ranges feel like there's no progression or at least progression that matches their improvements and there isn't a single tier that doesn't have a problem with having players that look out of place.
There was a fantastic short video by an amateur content creator explaining the psychological reasons behind why we feel the need to compete as a species and why we continue to compete during beta regarding Valorant. If you would like I could link that 6min video so you can understand why we feel the system as being unrewarding and unworthy of significant time investment. We care about our rank, we want it to mean something, we want to earn it. No rank in the game is prestigious as it stands and that's a problem.
Thank you, I really mean it. It means a lot that you're integrating with the community and share our enthusiasm towards making the ranked mode worthy of the game itself.
We have invested heavily in our data analytics (to which I just asked the team if we can share some perhaps in a future dev blog). We consider far more than match win/loss, and purposefully aim to ensure match quality irrespective of pre-made stack size, skill disparities, latency considerations, etc. A lot of factors go into trying to ensure we're making fair competitive matches, for every type of player and situation, and then ensuring we are tracking the results of those games across all those matrices to ensure we're meeting those goals.
Best I can do is try to assure you that these are all things we're considering and iterating on internally. We have and will continue to invest a lot here. But it will take time. Like League we didn't build Valorant to be complete on day one, we don't have intention to release Valorant #2, and we will continue to grow the product on our bi-weekly patch cadences. We have some sizable stuff on the horizon which I hope you'll enjoy, and much more planned into the future, with increments occurring every patch.
Also appreciate the Tweet link, gave me an opportunity to clarify some confused rumors that are circulating lol. Thanks for all the feedback, and I really appreciate you caring and investing in our game <3.
Originally posted by 19Dan81
A future development blog and/or some type of road map the team is working towards would go a long way to satisfying the current feeling towards the competitive ranked mode. As a parting wish, I would love for you to take 6 minutes of your time indulging in this video regarding Valorant ranked. At the very least it would empower the team with a potential viewpoint that may not have been considered and that is the psychological reasons for playing a ranked game mode. Here it is > https://youtu.be/TRyD_dmvkus
Added to my watch list, will make sure to give it and watch through and thanks for the share :)
Originally posted by do0rkn0b
bro your game is an actual shit show, so you can stuff your pr answers. just admit that you released an unfinished product ahead of schedule. like admit it, be real with yourself, it is consistently buggy and constantly down.
and yes people get banned for d/cing at hero select, and that's just dumb. full stop.
Sorry you feel that way, was simply trying to explain the situation to you. This feature was actually implemented post-release, and was one which was heavily requested by players feeling frustration at having players abandon their matches. Also players aren't 'banned' for abandoning matches but given a queue time-out that begins at 3 minutes.
Originally posted by do0rkn0b
i've never experienced any kind of 3 minute time out, it's been consistently an hour and i've yet to actually leave a game. so are you able to gauge at what point someone leaves a game? if someone leaves at hero select the max should be 15 minutes, anything else is absurd.
Leaving Agent Select ends a match there and then for the other ~9 players, so only has a ~3minute penalty that will scale up on repeated dodges.
If you proceed into game and leave there, then the penalty applies for each round that you're not present for, given it's a far larger/longer impact to the other 9 players who remained in the game.
Again this also carries scaling punishments that increase on repeat offenses and have a cooldown period to reset.