Original Post — Direct link
about 4 years ago - /u/ProgRocktopus - Direct link

Originally posted by OpinionatedKitty

TLDR; Riot hasn't made any changes to deal with the sexism/toxicity, they're just saying that they're aware of the issue and are planning to do something about it in the future

As well as:

  • actively investigating for fixes on performance dips
  • fixing a bug where the Spike UI will sometimes overlap with the HUD
  • fixing a bug where enemy players will sometimes show up as having the Spike on the minimap, even though they didn’t
  • making sure players are being matched well with other local players, so they’re not being routed from L.A. to Chicago

fixing a bug where enemy players will sometimes show up as having the Spike on the minimap, even though they didn’t

To be clear on this issue, enemy players should never show as carrying the spike on the minimap, even if they are carrying it. It's desired that the spike carrier information remain hidden to defenders until they kill the spike carrier (or the spike gets dropped/planted).

about 4 years ago - /u/ProgRocktopus - Direct link

Originally posted by Trickquestionorwhat

(like agents automatically calling out when they see enemies with the spike

That line is in the same post, are you sure it's not intended for us to see which enemy has the spike? I'm confused cause that really seems like it was an intended mechanic, and personally I think having to hide the player with the spike or the spike itself adds more depth to the game. It also allows for more mindgames by intentionally revealing the spike at one site and then immediately rotating after you've tricked them into thinking you're committing to that first site.

Unfortunately, the post is slightly incorrect. Your character automatically calls out when they see the dropped spike, but not the spike carrier. There's also an announcement that plays for both teams when the spike carrier is killed.

Edit to address your notes about depth and spotting the spike carrier:

Goes without saying, but when defenders know the location of the spike it usually tips the balance of the round in their favor, enabling more confident rotates, stacking, and more focused defensive setups.

We used to have an announcement that played when a defender spotted the spike carrier, but it had a few problems:

  • In a game with drones, cameras, and teleporting/dashing characters it was really easy to catch a glimpse of the carrier and get that important info with very little effort.
  • Sometimes a player would not know they had the spike (e.g. someone grabs it and throws it onto a teammate while they have the buy menu up) so they wouldn't always position thoughtfully - or simply wanted to peek - and would inadvertently give away the info
  • Many of the higher-skill players drop the spike in a neutral spot (robbing the defenders of the carrier killed notification while they try to get picks), so the feature became a bit irrelevant at higher levels of play anyway

As for the depth you mention, you can definitely still achieve that effect by dropping the spike in a conspicuous spot, waiting for an enemy to spot it, then bailing to another site.

Concealing the spike carrier until they are killed relieves a little pressure on attackers to have to constantly worry about who has the spike and if they are handing over critical info (often without knowing it) for as little as a pixel peek from the defense.

Conversely, the carrier dying is an earned and clearly defined event for both teams, enabling them to confidently react.

Hope that helps shed some light on the thinking. Thanks for bringing it up!

about 4 years ago - /u/ProgRocktopus - Direct link

Originally posted by Sarg338

enemy players should never show as carrying the spike on the minimap, even if they are carrying it.

Disagree. Hope you reconsider.

edit: or maybe other ways to see the spike carrier while alive, such as if Sova's recon dart reveals the agent carrying the spike, he/his team could see that.

Justification above; sorry for not including it in the original reply.

about 4 years ago - /u/ProgRocktopus - Direct link

Originally posted by Sarg338

In a game with drones, cameras, and teleporting/dashing characters it was really easy to catch a glimpse of the carrier and get that important info with very little effort.

How about only specific abilities that already show enemy locations, such as Sova's Reocn bolt? Give it to specific abilities rather than agents/vision in general.

Sometimes a player would not know they had the spike (e.g. someone grabs it and throws it onto a teammate while they have the buy menu up) so they wouldn't always position thoughtfully - or simply wanted to peek - and would inadvertently give away the info

That's a player problem. Disagree that you should take that into consideration. I doubt very much any higher-skill player (who you used for a justification in point 3) would not notice they have the spike.

Many of the higher-skill players drop the spike in a neutral spot (robbing the defenders of the carrier killed notification while they try to get picks), so the feature became a bit irrelevant at higher levels of play anyway

Yes, that would be the right play with this kind of mechanic. not sure why that's a reason to take it out. It doesn't make it an irrelevant machanic.

Still disagree. Hope you reconsider, or at least consider giving us more, niche options of spotting spike carrier while alive.

No changes to this are planned, but we'll keep an eye on it. Appreciate the feedback.

about 4 years ago - /u/ProgRocktopus - Direct link

Originally posted by bl1nkz

I really hope you guys don't take this game down the route of "low skilled players make these mistakes, let's make it so they physically cannot make these mistakes.".

You're actually voiding a good strategy that exist around players being able to give a glimpse of the spike, for example it would be common to show that you have the spike, then rotate in hopes that the enemies are moving to the site where the spike was seen. This gives you options to punish greedy pushers on defence who saw the spike and think they can sneak up behind the attackers, or punish players who rotate too soon.

I understand you're trying to make the game different to CSGO and I'm not the community as a whole but I hope you are making changes with the mindset that they are testing the waters and can be reverted.

I wouldn't say we voided the strategy at all, but we did shift how it's done.

Broadly, we don't make our choices with the explicit goal of being or not being like any other particular game. We look at how our game plays, our goals for the experience, what players think/do, and then chart a path forward.

There are enough unique elements in our game that a change to this particular behavior makes a lot of sense, and I outlined the reasons above. The way we have spike spotting implemented, you can still bait the enemy team into thinking the spike is in one location and then quietly moving it elsewhere.

You could even argue that the strategy is more powerful in our game because the entire enemy team gets a notification when the spike's spotted, instead of a player having to notice it and communicate. There's a lot of gameplay to be had using the communication systems to deceive enemies, like intentionally getting spotted by a recon arrow to bait a peek.