[2021] Nearly 1 year later and Radianite is still absurd

Originally posted by Gusaxd

Also, isn't it illegal for Riot to sell Radianite as if it's on sale for 20-40% off even though that's the price it's been always sold for? It kinda feels like a limited time thing, creating a sense of urgency to buy the absurdly priced RP

Originally posted by MarioKartEpicness

Of course 1 Radianite won't have a use in the same way 1 Apex Coin doesn't have a use (Apex Legend's premium currency); Radianite upgrades are in multiples of 5, and apex's minimum spending is 25. But unlike Radianite, I can say that apex coins are around 100 for $1 USD because I could buy 1,000 for $10 USD, or that vbucks are ~80 cents because I can buy 1,000 for $8 USD.

That being said, I believe Radianite's "bundled discount" is still dishonest, as there's no way to obtain a useable amount individually using real world currency; Telling someone that their shop prices are discounted from an unobtainable amount (<5 Radianite) at an unknown base price, which if obtainable wouldn't be useful, is a bit silly.

What Radianite's markdown may be doing instead is making revenue in a more clever way. Someone who recently bought a skin will want the visual effects and animations that go with said skin. If they were told this costs full price on top of their skin price it would feel annoying, but the consistent 20-40% markdown on Radianite in the shop instead has it pictured as a deal. For more stingy players who would rather only pay for the skin, the battle pass is immediately an incentive, allowing them enough Radianite to upgrade a skin to the maximum tier if they desire at a "huge" discount to that of the shop. (Of course battle passes by design trade off their great value to the customer in return for that player's retention). This is why I believe Radianite is always marked down in the shop, it's price becomes more rational for players who have already bought a skin, or for those outside it's price point they may be instead driven to the battlepass, which has it's own slews of benefits to the seller.

That being said I feel as if this design won't change anytime soon. It's clearly effective in a social way as players will often point out the additional features a Valorant skin may have over CSGO skins, but compare them at the base price little mention of Radianite, and being marked as a bundle discount from a single Radianite's price makes it "properly discounted", despite being unobtainable at that price. It's a hot topic that isn't easy to justify from a PR standpoint to the average, and seeing a response in thread like these is a suprise, so i thank you for being as open on the matter as you can.

Originally posted by SturmiLol

Hey, about 90% sure you won't answer this, since that's most likely forbidden, but anyway. Is there more information about who exactly came up with the RP idea/price in the first place, or a person who is actually willing to debate about the topic? Honestly, as someone who owns just about every premium skin set in this game, i wanna tell yo, the system sucks hard. The battlepass gives you roughly enough for a single bundle, and even with your 'discount' (really unsure if that one is legal around here in europe), RP are priced rediculously high. Like for real, what sad excuse for a human beeing would even think of that. You advertise a fancy dragon skin with sick animations, you sell it for a 100€ (more than EVERY CD PROJEKT RED game combined) and thought yourself : "Hey, that wasn't enough money, we should lock the animations and alternative colours behind another 211,97€ paywall (360RP). That's a totall of about 312€. The system was designed to milk every last bit of money of whales (people like me, sadly ) and it sucks. Like really, it SUCKS*. If you can tall me a single positive thing about the RP system that doesn't include your revenue, i'll even think about buying the next f**king skinset.

Also, next time you see Joe Lee, thell him he's a big douchebag and i hope his sleves get wet evertime he washes his hands >:( .

Originally posted by Le_Vagabond

On the off chance you are real and being candid:

Your system is dishonest and predatory. If you didn't intend for it to be, you should take a step back from the horrible standards of the free to play industry and take a long look at yourself in the mirror.

When I was working for a Korean F2P company, we referred to ourselves internally as drug dealers. I still feel unclean about that, but at least I didn't delude myself into thinking it was ok.

You probably aren't though, because I do not believe anyone from Riot's monetization team would come and post this here.

Originally posted by JasemTheArab

People just think its bs to pay 20 bucks for a skin and have to pay AGAIN to get the good stuff for it. Your skins are overpriced as is and radiante is not cheap literally such a stupid cashgrab but hey its riot were talking about.

Originally posted by Le_Vagabond

the entire system is predatory in several ways, first with the valorant points themselves:

• the basic cash shop currency <-> real money exchange rate. this hides the true cost of any purchase in Valorant behind a conversion step, because "1700 VPs" has no real life meaning for vulnerable people like kids.
• the VPs bundles are priced just so you need to buy the bigger one to afford whatever you actually want, in order to have leftovers after that purchase - vulnerable people will see those "leftover points" as money wasted if they do not get more points and buy something else, and won't include them in the price of the item they bought in the first place.
• the items bundles are time limited. act now, they say, or I'm gonna disappear forever. this makes vulnerable people go for an impulse buy, rationalize that the price isn't actually that expensive (it is already masked behind one mathematical conversion from € to VP, so it's easy for them to fall for this).
• the items bundles have "freebies" included to incentivize you to get the bundle, for more money than you intended to spend, but less than they would cost separately. again, easy to rationalize for vulnerable people who buy on impulse. and look, some of those are even bundle-exclusive! if you're interesting in having a complete collection, you don't have a choice of getting them later.
• and if you don't purchase that new collection right now, you're gonna have to wait for a less than 4% chance of it showing up in your shop, for only a day. act fast, or it's gonna disappear again. nope, no time to think about this.
• then the radianite system makes it so the item or the bundle you see in the shop, with its nicely advertised 70€, oops sorry, 70000VPs price, isn't the item anyone actually wants to buy. that one, with the nice animations, VFX, kill badge, last kill VFX and the color scheme you're interested in and that was advertised in videos... is gonna cost at the very least 30RP on top of that, probably more. if you thought "well 70€ for that bundle / 17€ for that skin isn't THAT expensive, alright" and didn't do your due diligence (as kids and vulnerable people are wont to do because impulse buy, we just covered that), you're facing the prospect of having to get 30€ more out of your wallet, or not get the skin you actually wanted in the first place.
• radianite is a separate currency from the valorant points, because if you hide the true cost of your items behind one easy-ish conversion (not so easy with the leftovers and the bonus though for vulnerable people), then why not hide it behind TWO? with a conversion ratio of 1:1000 on one side and 1:2 on the other. and on top of that, you have to buy the second one with the first one at a 60:1 ratio, so that when you finish upgrading your skin and finally get to play with what you wanted in the first place, you have to use a spreadsheet to figure out how much it actually cost you.

all of this is basic (but improved, kudos.) free2play monetization predatory tactics, with the goal of

• shutting down critical thinking process (time-limited means you can't think too much)
• preventing easy, true and clear cost analysis (several currencies with different ratios, hidden cost)

which hits vulnerable people (kids, often. but also people with disabilities and those unable to make good financial decisions) the hardest.

note that this has nothing to do with the price of cosmetics or my liking of your system. those are manipulative, deceptive, predatory practices. those are well known to be the standard in the free2play industry, to the point where I cannot imagine you not knowing what your system is designed to do, or is actually doing, in good faith.

it's not EA level, which isn't the most glowing endorsement I could make given how horrible their practices are.

I'll take a Riot gunbuddy for the analysis, or I can send you my invoice :p

feel free to open a direct chat with me if you want as well.

edit: do note that the situation got a liiiitle bit better since you added radianite in the free section of the battlepass. just a little. the battlepass is still way too grindy to be considered fair, even for free rewards.

Originally posted by MarioKartEpicness

I've actually had some thoughts on it over dinner, and wanted to wait a while before responding. If it's too wordy, just go to the last scetion.

My initial message is definetly thinking on the side of "how does this make money", since it's hard to not look at a monetization method and wonder how it makes money. But a more neutral stance on the situation is better to go on, Radianite is just an optional upgrade for skins and it's not needed to enjoy that skin.

What players may be more bothered by is that their purchases feels incomplete without any upgrades, and that the price of Radianite is a high hike from what they've already spent. I could get an Elderflame Vandal for $25 USD if it appears in the shop, but it won't be that Elderflame Vandal i saw in the trailer until i've gotten the level two animation upgrade, which requires 20 Radianite. if i don't prepare for this prior, this could cost me another $20 USD which is almost as much as the skin! (with some leftover VP after the purchase) Of course the process could be managed better; Purchasing $40 USD worth of Valorant Points in a batch of $35 USD and $5 USD cover the costs almost perfectly, and playing through the free pass awards some Radianite as well, allowing me to get the animations for the gun's price alone. Still, the buyer needs to commit more time or money to Valorant if they wish to "complete" the skin they purchased, and while it's unintended, they may feel tricked by the way it's presented.

I believe players should be made aware of this before they buy; From startup screen to purchase there should be a warning along the way that the user is just obtaining for the skin's texture and model, and additional features may require a seperate purchase of Radianite. It could even be streamlined in special offers, allowing a user to instantly purchase the skin and it's upgrades all at once. Of course the actual price is an ongoing debate that has no right answer for everyone, but the current implementation as you said has room for improvement. Again, thank you for responding, and I hope that the work between skins and Radianite improve as time goes on. 👍

Originally posted by ro1isawed

the buning question- did he dm u?

Originally posted by Captin_Blackfire

Mostly yes, but partly no; it's being more honest with the customer, but now the player can't earn RP from the battle pass for free, so instead of some free ground, they get none, and now skins are more expensive when they are already quite high.
The problem with RP is that, no matter how it is framed, you are only given a fraction of the skin for the already high 20$ base price you spend.
In League of Legends, I pay 20$ for a legendary skin. I pay for new voice lines, new animations, and a new look. In Valorant, I pay 20$ for a skin that has no new animations, no new VFX, unless you go pay more money to actually unlock the skin.
And this is made even worse by the fact that RP is disgustingly expensive. You have to by the 20 RP bundle for 20$(which isn't enough enough to fully upgrade a gun in the first place!), when it costs 30$ for just the VFX and animations(not even counting the different styles!) .
Let's say a new player buys a Prime Vandal, and that they have 20 RP lying around from the battle pass or something. They buy the bare minimum for 20$, and now have 40, and are now barely able to upgrade it to max, and can't even afford any of the 15 RP alternative looks if they want any. That's 40$ for a single skin. Again, League charges me 20$ for the same thing, except that also gives me additional voice lines and I get to see it far more often than a single Vandal skin.
It's a problem that, at first purchase, a 20$ skin has no difference other than looks than a skin half it's price other than the fact more money can be pumped into it to upgrade it.
It may not be Riot's intent, but just that fact makes it come off as deceitful. "Yeah, this 20$ skin is better than this 10$, look at all this VFX! All it costs is simply 30 RP!" when RP is, again, horrifically expensive.
It'd be one thing if RP was like 10 bucks for 50, I mean, still annoying but at least it's approaching reasonable. But its far from that.
And yes, bundling it together fixes the whole issue of seeming a little deceitful, but it doesn't fix the issue that it still is way too much money for what you end up getting if it was just skin price+RP price.
Thank you for reading this if you did, and I hope you have a good day.

Originally posted by ro1isawed

It did here lol

Originally posted by ro1isawed

NO WAY