Original Post — Direct link

Look, I get it with AoE weapons, DE doesn't want us to just sit in one spot aiming at our feet. Holdover from when firing an Ogris at point-blank would immolate you because realism, exploited by Trinity, etc. Annoyance of self-stagger aside though, it at least pushes you to use explosive weapons a bit differently than a glorified shotgun.

Even with melee weapons like Glaive, learning to time the detonations so they don't blow up in your face is a mark of skill. Worst case scenario though it staggers everyone in range of you, yourself included, so you only lose a brief window of opportunity to... I dunno, run away?

In theory, Ack & Brunt Incarnon or Exodia Contagion shouldn't be a big issue because you need to give yourself more room to even activate their explosive projectiles. They're still annoying (and I would prefer they didn't), but I can see the defense of them.

But Hate? Hate's Incarnon fires explosive projectiles on EVERY. LIGHT. SWING. It's not like Ceramic Dagger where you can just choose to withhold the heavy attack for when you're at a distance. For 90 seconds, if you use your melee weapon at all, an explosive gets tossed.
And if your camera faces even slightly downward while you're swinging at enemies, or towards a nearby wall, you self-stagger on almost every swing.

Who thought it was a good idea to have a self-stagger on an effect on a melee weapon that you regularly trigger just by being in melee?

Unlike gun Incarnons we can't just turn it off. Need combo for heavy attacks which we can't build without light attacks. If I'm cornered, Sword Alone (cuz one of its bonuses is for exactly that!), my options are self-stagger and... die?

Like, if Exalted Blade waves exploded on impact and self-staggered, the ability would be absolutely unusable.
Or if Ogris shots just auto-exploded in the air after traveling 8 meters so you had to thread the needle on every shot; it wouldn't be impossible to use, but it would be a nightmare.

And I know the obvious response is "well I just use Primed Sure Footed" but ignoring that the solution is a Legendary mod, it doesn't fit in every build, and it would be a bandaid on a complete oversight in design.

We have Exalted Blade, Gunblades, and most Fans as precedent for melee weapons with projectiles that don't self-stagger. If the effect is going to occur on light swings, the Hate should take a page from their books.

External link →
12 months ago - /u/DE-Marcus - Direct link

Mentioned it here as well, but the Team will be reviewing the self-stagger on the Hate’s Incarnon form - we want you to be able to get up close and personal without the consistent AOE knockdowns.

We’ll review it alongside the feedback about the Soma’s Incarnon form!