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17 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by Front_Appointment_68

I don't really see the point of execute smite.it will just put an even heavier reliance on jungle champs with a single burst skill like nunus bite eves ult etc.

If it was about removing the reliance on smite timing I am not sure it does that.

One of the things we are testing and hoping to get feedback on is how it feels when abilities (non-dot) can proc Execute Smite vs just basic attacks both have trade offs for sure.

Our goal is not to remove timing entirely, we still want to allow for hype moments like objective steals. Timing is still a valuable skill for junglers and we want it to remain that way.

The idea is that this is really shifting Smites power into your champion mastery rather than being something so ping reliant with cleaner controls and guidelines. While opening up new spell options such as Ignite, Ghost, and Exhaust.

The new spells should be nice for ganking focused junglers, and having Smite on every camp should also help when you are looking to power-farm.

17 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by gheycub

Just a couple initial thoughts…

  • The execute smite changes will mean that your jungler will be expected to stay on the objective while your teammates protect and/or help them. It will be interesting to see whether this makes it to ranked. Obviously, it may mean less skill expression for junglers and those who were good at securing objectives with a well timed smite will be rewarded less. It will also make it more difficult to steal objectives. However, as a positive it means that low elo players and those less skilled will be encouraged/taught that your jungler needs to stay on the objective and it will be the responsibility of the team to help them out or protect them. This is mostly common knowledge amongst high elo players, however is a major pain point in lower elos and keeps players from maining jungle because they don’t want to be blamed for not securing objectives. The responsibility/burden of securing objectives may be more easily seen/acknowledged to be a team effort.
  • Does anyone know what, “Made adjustments to loadouts, so they reflect popular builds instead of default builds,” means? I’m confused because I just looked at how loadouts are organized and everything looks the same. I’m really hoping this tackles the issue of players blindly using default builds somehow, especially when the top builds are often troll because the top players either think it’s funny or don’t want to be copied.

I hope everyone enjoys the new patch, GLHF!

That's a good breakdown, though I don't think I'd call it less skill expression, more so that it is shifted into other areas.

Smite timing still matters when it comes to using your ability (non-DoT)/basic attacks on the objective (we are still testing to see how we feel about abilities working or not).

But the skill test is, like you said, still about hitting the objective and the timing for the still exists. This is intentional to allow for exciting moments like stealing Dragon/Baron and make them less of a coin toss and more about champion mastery.

Where I actually think this does is shift the skill test out of PvE and more into PvP. By giving junglers access to ghost, ignite, or exhaust, (maybe a heal gank) the skill check is shifted to ganking and choosing the right tool for your champion/game.

As for loadouts I don't know the details here, but I believe it is primarily focused on updating default loadouts with new items and better rec builds, while also fixing a bug where the wrong items were being recommended on certain champions.

17 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by The_Paragone

Did inhibs get added? It doesn't say so in the patch notes :/

They will be coming in one of the upcoming balance patches, so it won't be live today, but very soon.

17 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by -La_Geass-

Just had my first game as zoe. Im still learning her controls but I pretty much just hope I hit something with q>r>q because cam panning is hard

She takes some getting used to for sure, but don't focus too much on super long range hits, she can do her job with a well placed bubble from just around the wall if you are clever.

17 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by joshwew95

Bruh Camille’s getting QoL buff, knocking her ceiling by quite a lot. Still gonna be scary to play against.

Glad you are excited, I'm excited to see how she holds up once things settle down a bit.

17 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by gheycub

That makes sense, would you care to elaborate on the reasons as to why this is being tested? Like what was the team’s goals or problem statement being addressed with challenging smite?

Or is this just something meant to be new/fun for ARURF? I do like having access to flash and a secondary spell (rather than the obligatory smite) as a jungler, it’s a fun change.

Also, another thing I’ve wondered is whether these changes will mean objective securing is easier with specific champions or builds. For example, a higher dps jungle champion like Master Yi having an easier time securing than Rammus? If so, would that be intentional in that a Rammus player would have to learn/master their champion and how to time an ability rather than just using the old smite? Or that it’s intentional for Master Yi to have an easier time with this because it’s intrinsic to his kit? Or would this be an area/problem of concern if true?

Thanks!

We have a few important goals, but to be clear we do not see this as a one-stop fix for junglers.

One major one is to make the Smite controls more intuitive.

Summoner Spells all just have a single value unit type (Yourself: Ghost, Heal, Barrier, Flash, Clarity, Dash/Snowball2; Enemy Champion: Ignite, Exhaust, Mark/Snowball). Smite has 2 (champions and large monsters).

Abilities will prioritize champions, this makes sense and you generally want that to be your target.

However, Smite breaks this rule in a somewhat funky way.

Tapcasting:

  • Before Smite enhances it can only target monsters (ofc).
  • When you are in combat without a large monster a tap-casted Smite will target champions (assuming it is enhanced).
  • When you are in combat with a large monster a tap-casted Smite will target the large monster. If the large monster dies and small monsters are still around Smite will target the enemy champion.

Aiming:

  • When flicking (quick aiming) the game puts a higher priority on champions. However, that isn't always what you want when using Smite, so objectives are weighted higher. This makes sense given what Smite is for, but it isn't clear to players and even with that weighting mistakes can be made (especially when you want to Smite the champion).

All this makes sense when you look at them individually, but it is really unclear to intuit, or when you are learning how it works. A single spell with a different priority system that feels like it can vary and it breaks trust in the whole system. Even aiming isn't ideal because if a champion and objective are close by each other Doubly so when in the heat of intense combat when you are trying to act as quickly as possible.

New tools for junglers

When we had Red/Blue Smite players most players, even dedicated ones didn't really know the difference, but many more players know the difference between the rest of the spells. This makes it easier to bring your favorite champions into the jungle (Fizz gets to take Ignite) and you Smiting a camp just before a gank doesn't mean you are missing out on a powerful tool.

Junglers can take Ignite if they need Grevious Wounds, rather than buying a full item. Or can use Ghost if they want to sticking power.

Teamwork

This has a lot to do with junglers new and old, but it can always be a bit unclear if your jungler has Smite when it comes to starting an objective. You might have just had a big teamfight, but the enemy jungler got away. Did your jungler use Smite, did the enemy Jungler? What about if the jungler was just taking Red Buff and it turns out the objective looks open? Alot of those decisions can come down to if your jungler has Smite off cooldown, and that isn't easy for the rest of the team to know. By removing Smite's cooldown you can know that your jungler has it ready to go. They still need to time it, and there is always the risk of an objective being stolen, but at least you know you were not going in without your most important tool.

17 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by TerribleTeemoTime

Kind of wild that they don’t have to select smite.

How would role swapping work? Won’t this be a little strong?

Unfortunately, I don't know the details of role-swapping myself, but it is on our minds. This does add some power to junglers, particularly when ganking or in PvP, but in a way that should be more familiar to players trying out the position.

17 days ago - /u/R0gueFool - Direct link

Originally posted by The_Paragone

Sadge, we'll have to wait a few weeks then right?

I don't have the exact date off hand, but I believe it turns on in 4.1 (the next balance patch) or 4.2. Regardless I'm sure you'll see it in the balance patch notes.