[2022] why tanks are on a weak spot?

Tanks have always been in a rather strong spot, but they are often overlooked by the reddit player base because they are not as flashy or likely to get kills to solo carry. But consistently tanks have been shown to have a strong winrate and having one on your team is a good predictor for winning a game.

Likely that they are picking bad fights, you aren't following up, or tanks are building dps or not counter building the other team.

This feeling is the part that really matters here. Tanks can be strong without feeling tanky enough and that is totally valid. We would like to adjust how this feels, I personally have felt plenty durable when playing tanks (typically Rammus), at least until the very late game, but that doesn't mean they are weak.

We are unlikely to add an item that gives passive defenses, we already have a very similar item with Protectors Vow, and it is difficult to feel. The issue is that something like this is difficult to appreciate, Armor and MR are about as invisible as a stat can be, Protector's Vow gives a shield so that already makes it much more noticeable, and it still does a poor job.

Tank supports already have Zeke's and Protector's Vow so they have similar tools already. However enchanters and tank supports SHOULD feel different and have different tools at their disposal, giving tanks more starts to take away what makes enchanters special and we end up with little distinction between the two.

Assassins are designed to focus a squishy target and kill them, but tanks can still focus. For example Nautilus is great at locking down a single target, but if you want a tank built for starting fights against a group Malphite, Alistair, or Leona are going to be much better.

In my experience the difference between a good and a great tank is knowing when to start a fight and who to focus when you do. Waiting for the right opening after the opponent used an ability, or the carry took one step too far forward is VASTLY better than just being the guy who starts the fight.

So reducing Bramble Vests cost would buff them, but we aren't looking to buff tanks. Really what we would want to do is actually keep them power neutral, or a slight nerf, but increase satisfaction, for tanks. So a buff to Bramble Vest would likely mean we would need to nerf it's stats. This might be worth it given the increased access to Grevious Wounds though.

So when you say they are in a rough spot I think it comes down to play style, yes supports roam a bit, but tank supports are better equipped for that than enchanters. When I'm mid and Leona or Alistair roams to my lane I'm much more concerned than seeing a Janna or Yuumi.

I think the pacing comment is a fair one, but minion aggro and Ruby Crystal favor the tank. Because your defenses will compound and your opponent (with fewer defense) is also taking minion aggro.

I personally would like to make a clearer difference in bruiser and tank starting Armor/MR, but all that would really do right now is buff tanks and this is primarily a satisfaction problem, not one of power.

This sounds like we might be using "tank" to refer to somewhat different things. I wouldn't say a tank should be much of a threat in a 1v1, that sounds like a bruiser or juggernaut.

When I say tank I am referring to someone who is durable and good at starting fights (Amumu, Malphite, Rammus) these tend to have great target selection or fast ways to quickly engage on a group, we call these Vanguards. Or Wardens who are less focused on starting fights (though they can) and more focused on protecting their team, or an individual (Braum and Galio).

The important thing here is that they are a team focused class and if the assassin is focusing the tank then either A) the tank is out of position or B) The tank is happy because they are tanking so the assassin doesn't focus the carry.

Often I hear people refer to Dr. Mundo or Darius as a tank and while I can see why, they are very durable, they are the ones that should be a threat over time.

I agree that a tank being bust down by an assassin doesn't feel right and I can't speak to specifics you are thinking of, but players tend to overvalue HP at the cost of Armor and MR, health is fine but it needs to be multiplied. Counter the opponents damage by buying the right defense stats, don't forget about Randuin's Omen and Frozen Heart. Zeke's is great here because it is well rounded in defense while helping you amp an allies damage, while Iceborn Gauntlet will give you some adding sticking power.

So that comes back to the core issue we keep coming back to. Tanks are already strong, but the satisfaction is lower to most players. This isn't an issue where we have room to give them buffs, they are already winning a majority of their games. So giving them more durability isn't the answer and would come with a trade off. And small durability buffs (with balancing nerfs) aren't going to provide much satisfaction either.

Magnatron is an example of us trying a high satisfaction (dash+CC) tank tool as opposed to the generically powerful Stoneplate Enchant. The hope is that these two can co-exist at similar lower levels, but we Expect Magnatron to be much more flashy with a higher skill ceiling that provides good satisfaction. (Stoneplate being changed to a shield was also primarily done for satisfaction reasons).

Right Sona is the archetypical enchanter, and Lux has some enchanter qualities as well they should be enchanting groups. Tanks should not have the same outputs that enchanters have this is important to what makes each class unique.

Tanks are designed to work best in team fights so groups of 3-5 makes sense. But if you are a tank using your ultimate to disengage the group fight then yes Zeke's will not be helpful, though if the other team is forcing you to use your ultimate to disengage then you are already on your back foot and any enchanter style team buffs are not going to be as impactful as your ultimate would have been.

Keep in mind we also just reduced ultimate cooldowns, this is a major buff to tanks, and Zeke's (so doubling down on a buff to tanks).

Edit: forgot to address MR items

MR items are very niche. Armor is always valuable. Armor helps vs Towers, Epic Monsters, and most enemy champions, whereas MR only helps vs certain champions. And a team of all, or even primarily, magic damage dealers is very rare. This means that we want a larger pool of Armor options to address those needs. Where as MR items are more niche due to their stats, but they have much more powerful effects to make them worth it.

Magic damage dealers also tend to focus a bit more on burst, and stacking MR items is already good at invalidating them, adding more just pushes that further. I think one more could be worth having, if we find the right effect, but I don't expect us to ever try to match the number of MR and Armor items.

That really comes down to what you think of as meta. If meta is what is successful in winning games, climbing the ladder, and having the agency to make plays then tank supports are already meta in solo que. If you are talking about meta as in what is popular then there is still work to be done.

Yes durability and time to kill is relative, but I'm going to push back on it being shorter than LoLPC (at least pre durability update). This was actually a contentious topic internally when the game first launched, some people felt that our longer TTK would actually hurt us when compared to LoLPC, ultimately we stuck with the levels of durability we had and LoLPC ended up adding the durability patch, that brings them both closer together. Though I am not sure where both games are relative to one another at this point.

Rammus is one I play a lot, and I do agree that in a very late game I feel a bit too squishy, but up until that point Rammus with just Thornmail and Sunfires feels plenty durable and deals good damage back.