[2021] Suggestion: AUTOSAVE

The game is constantly saving to disk as you play; every step you take, every block you damage or break, every item you pick up, every minute that passes by. That very nature is exactly why a sudden power outage will shatter the save file- There's a reason every game under the sun warns you not to power off the system or close the game while the save icon is present on the screen. Interrupting the save causes save fragmentation/corruption; As now only a part of the changes are written to disk when it needs all of them to have a functioning save.

So, what we don't need is auto-save; It already autosaves, constantly. What it lacks is a working backup system. A big problem there though is that unlike most other games where save files are measured in 50-100kb, or maybe 5-25mb at most, values that can be, practically speaking, instantly saved with little impact on performance, 7dtd saves start at 250+mb and grow from there to in excess of 1gb and more depending on how long you continue playing the same save.

Gamers don't typically mind if they lose kb or a couple mb of space to auto saves- But when you're talking multiple gigs, it's a different story; And that's before discussing the impact on performance as the game backs up such a huge amount of data; It would likely require interrupting play entirely for several seconds each auto-save.


I'm sure a backup system will be properly implemented eventually. But, In the mean time, I'd strongly recommend making manual backups. before each play session at the minimum....Or getting an unterruptible power supply so that you don't suddenly lose power without being able to log out and close your computer down safely; since this is pretty much the exact use case for it. :)

Originally posted by Niknokinater:

Originally posted by Shurenai: The game is constantly saving to disk as you play; every step you take, every block you damage or break, every item you pick up, every minute that passes by. That very nature is exactly why a sudden power outage will shatter the save file- There's a reason every game under the sun warns you not to power off the system or close the game while the save icon is present on the screen. Interrupting the save causes save fragmentation/corruption; As now only a part of the changes are written to disk when it needs all of them to have a functioning save.

So, what we don't need is auto-save; It already autosaves, constantly. What it lacks is a working backup system. A big problem there though is that unlike most other games where save files are measured in 50-100kb, or maybe 5-25mb at most, values that can be, practically speaking, instantly saved with little impact on performance, 7dtd saves start at 250+mb and grow from there to in excess of 1gb and more depending on how long you continue playing the same save.

Gamers don't typically mind if they lose kb or a couple mb of space to auto saves- But when you're talking multiple gigs, it's a different story; And that's before discussing the impact on performance as the game backs up such a huge amount of data; It would likely require interrupting play entirely for several seconds each auto-save.


I'm sure a backup system will be properly implemented eventually. But, In the mean time, I'd strongly recommend making manual backups. before each play session at the minimum....Or getting an unterruptible power supply so that you don't suddenly lose power without being able to log out and close your computer down safely; since this is pretty much the exact use case for it. :)

I don't immediately believe that the game would autosave to that degree- that's pointless considering that, should any anomaly present itself and the game ceases to respond during an ever-so-present autosave, a constant autosave would be worse than no autosave, bricking your save completely instead of just losing the session's progress (not to mention the constant disk usage).

If it's as pronounced as you say, that's a huge design flaw imo and needs to be patched asap to lessen that grip.

It's pretty much a limitation of file size and file count. With so many files and so much size involved, Saving infrequently means a huge overhead at each save- Noone notices kb of data being written. They absolutely notice gb of data being written. Minecraft saves the same way- Most voxel games do, actually, since it's such a huge amount of data to write spread over hundreds or sometimes thousands of files.

Take a look at Valheim even; It's not even fully voxel based yet it's autosave at 20m intervals causes even the best computers to freeze up for a few seconds because it's commiting a huge load to ram/cpu/disk all at once.

The game has it's own methods of verifying file integrity each write. But, as explained in my previous post, it cannot do that when the power is suddenly shut off. It can cope with most forms of crashes without data loss, but power loss is another story entirely.

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Originally posted by Niknokinater: I don't immediately believe that the game would autosave to that degree- that's pointless considering that, should any anomaly present itself and the game ceases to respond during an ever-so-present autosave, a constant autosave would be worse than no autosave, bricking your save completely instead of just losing the session's progress (not to mention the constant disk usage).

If it's as pronounced as you say, that's a huge design flaw imo and needs to be patched asap to lessen that grip.

It's pretty much a limitation of file size and file count. With so many files and so much size involved, Saving infrequently means a huge overhead at each save- Noone notices kb of data being written. They absolutely notice gb of data being written. Minecraft saves the same way- Most voxel games do, actually, since it's such a huge amount of data to write spread over hundreds or sometimes thousands of files.

Take a look at Valheim even; It's not even fully voxel based yet it's autosave at 20m intervals causes even the best computers to freeze up for a few seconds because it's commiting a huge load to ram/cpu/disk all at once.

The game has it's own methods of verifying file integrity each write. But, as explained in my previous post, it cannot do that when the power is suddenly shut off. It can cope with most forms of crashes without data loss, but power loss is another story entirely.

Yep. Even on my overclocked 3900x with Raided drives for the game and for the saves AND using a ramdisk buffer to boost the speeds even more, I still see my FPS drop in half when Valheim makes a save.

7 Days is constantly writing data to files that can be up to a gigabit in size each. If it stored the data in RAM and saved periodically, you would see massive pauses in gameplay when it was saving, and having a separated save system would just fill up your drive enormously. This isn't a game where the save is a single 38MB file. It's a chain of several files and folders that can take up several gigabits as a whole.

Originally posted by vgifford:

Originally posted by SylenThunder:
7 Days is constantly writing data to files that can be up to a gigabit in size each ... This isn't a game where the save is a single 38MB file. It's a chain of several files and folders that can take up several gigabits as a whole.

My current Navezgane save folder is 960 MB.

I've had personal saves up to 12GB, and the servers I run have been up to 30GB. That's still quite a large bit of data to be writing to the disk all at once. Especially if you consider that most people still have platters or slower SSD's.

And in the earlier comparison with Valheim, that save is only 150MB.

Originally posted by Lex: Wow, I didn't know it would elicit this flood of responses. Thanks to all for the clarifications and suggestions. I quickly reply about some solutions. UPS are the worst possible purchase ever, at least for home use. Better to invest in the protection of the main electrical panel, where you can get multiple safety devices and voltage correction filters at better prices than any similar quality UPS. Without considering the fact that in the worst case scenario, as mentioned by a user, you will have secured not only your PC, but also all the appliances you have in your home. The fact is that if there is no energy anyway, there is nothing to monitor. And as rare as these events are, who among you has never had any? :)

As for the save system, now I understand that we are dealing with something very complex and before continuing, I would like to make it clear that I do not understand anything about programming! :D
What made me think, however, is the fact of having such an important resource of information accumulated (I have even read 12GB) that all of a sudden they become useless. It is a bit as if the interruption of the electric current made everything that I had previously saved on my HDs unreadable. There must be some way to get the cows in the barn. It would not be possible to make a certified backup at the exit of the program, at least of that or those files that are essential to read everything else? I realize that if you have a server that works 24/7, you will still have to set a specific time for this backup. But making one at the close of the program shouldn't be too much of a challenge. Then again, I'm a profound programming layman. So if I wrote some nonsense, have the leniency to interpret them as such. Anyway, I want to congratulate the developers, who have done an extraordinary job to date. Keep it up <3

It comes down to cost usually. A single-PC UPS will range from $30-150 depending on the load and uptime. Overhauling your electricity with backup power is generally $3000+

Which do you think people are more likely to go with?

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

Originally posted by Lex: Wow, I didn't know it would elicit this flood of responses. Thanks to all for the clarifications and suggestions. I quickly reply about some solutions. UPS are the worst possible purchase ever, at least for home use. Better to invest in the protection of the main electrical panel, where you can get multiple safety devices and voltage correction filters at better prices than any similar quality UPS. Without considering the fact that in the worst case scenario, as mentioned by a user, you will have secured not only your PC, but also all the appliances you have in your home. The fact is that if there is no energy anyway, there is nothing to monitor. And as rare as these events are, who among you has never had any? :)

As for the save system, now I understand that we are dealing with something very complex and before continuing, I would like to make it clear that I do not understand anything about programming! :D
What made me think, however, is the fact of having such an important resource of information accumulated (I have even read 12GB) that all of a sudden they become useless. It is a bit as if the interruption of the electric current made everything that I had previously saved on my HDs unreadable. There must be some way to get the cows in the barn. It would not be possible to make a certified backup at the exit of the program, at least of that or those files that are essential to read everything else? I realize that if you have a server that works 24/7, you will still have to set a specific time for this backup. But making one at the close of the program shouldn't be too much of a challenge. Then again, I'm a profound programming layman. So if I wrote some nonsense, have the leniency to interpret them as such. Anyway, I want to congratulate the developers, who have done an extraordinary job to date. Keep it up <3

It comes down to cost usually. A single-PC UPS will range from $30-150 depending on the load and uptime. Overhauling your electricity with backup power is generally $3000+

Which do you think people are more likely to go with?

To add on to this, $30-150 for protection on your $1000-3000 PC, or $3000+ to additionally protect your...light bulbs? Toaster? Most of the other things on your power grid either have their own built in surge protection, Or are tiny and often inconsequential to replace, Or are things that only function for a limited duration at a time, and so the chances of a surge at that exact time are minimal to begin with.

And to go a step further, Most other things don't lose data when they have the power shut off- Your PC does; So either way a UPS is still valuable, as it provides you the time necessary to shut down your PC safely, or possibly for the power to come back on.

Going with the rareness of the event to begin with, the UPS is significantly cheaper, will protect one of the most expensive and precious electronic items in your house from damage; And ultimately, most other appliances and electrical objects in your house will survive a surge just fine.