Original Post — Direct link
I saw a video by Lucky Ghost called "Ashes of Creation is in Trouble" about pvp and how it would be the end of AOC if the flagging system isnt improved or something else is added. Even though i dont agree with everything he said, it still got me thinking, so here is some ideas:

I would like to suggest some ideas, some may be bad and some may be good, or maybe they are all bad, i dont know xD. Also some of these ideas may or may not have already been added to the game or talked about, so i apologize in advance if that is the case. Also sorry for the bad english xd.

1:Overall i think that the reward to pvp players for protecting pve players against getting griefed in certain areas should be desirable and perhaps unique. Atleast to the point where it is atleast just as desirable to defend players as it is to attack players, and perhaps the reward for defending and reviving a certain amount of pve players inside of cetain areas should maybe even be a bit greater in certain cases or in certain areas, perhaps even unique.
Maybe there could be like a system where for example: if you complete 2 quests, and keep the time in between you taking a new quest short, like some sort of time limit, while you simultaneously havent attacked any other player, then you get categorized as a pve player until atleast one of those criteria is broken, then defending and reviving those people could give desirable rewards. This system could be implemented in certain areas and perhaps be implemented or removed under certain situation, like if a siege is taking place in your area then it is removed regardless of whether you fullfill the criteria. The flagging system could also be tuned acording to whether you are categorized as a pvp or pve player.

2: In terms of dungeons: maybe make it so that you enter a sort of portal at the entrance to the dungeons, just like in WoW. Or maybe make it so there is a heavy penalty for killing players inside of dungeons.

3: Maybe there could be like a speciel kind of quest, where you are suppose to protect players inside of your node or a cetain owned territory, and get unique or atleast valuable rewards for succeeding. Perhaps like a type of bodyguard quest.

4: Making sure that atleast the starting lvl areas are heavily protected by npc´s, like to the point where you wouldnt just be able to go in with like 5 of your friends and grief low lvl players.

5: Maybe make it so that if there hasnt been created like a sort of guild which main purpose is to protect the node and the players questing inside of the node or the owned territory, then the node itself cant be upgraded past a certain lvl, and if certain goals where you have to protect lvling players arent reached maybe on a weekly or monthly basis, then the node will decrease in lvl, or other sort of penalties.

6: Making it so that the reward for killing other players gets lower or higher depending on the diffrence between your lvl and the player you are attckings lvl, or perhaps the flag meter increases faster depending on the lvl difference. Maybe even making it so that killing very low lvl players as a very high lvl player, gives some sort of penalty, perhaps even a heavy penalty, on top of that the penalty could perhaps also be adjusted to whether the low lvl player who were killed were in a starting lvling area or not.

7: Since fast travel dosent seem to be a huge thing in aoc, then perhaps being strategic with where the low lvl areas are placed on the map is a good idea, in order to avoid griefing.

Feel free to add ideas or objections. All i want is a great mmorpg game :smiley:
about 2 years ago - Vaknar - Direct link
Hello all! Lots of big thoughts in here. I thought I'd stop by and share a well written post Steven wrote on that YouTube video, which can be found here

I'll also copy-paste it for ya here as well:
"Greetings brother, awesome video!

Just a few points I’d love to add.

Much of the Ashes corruption system has taken into account these concerns. In my experience with similar flagging systems, such as that of L2’s, there were very apparent flaws in implementation.

Some of the adjustments that have been made for Ashes’ approach to open world flagging system is as follows;

- Abilities with CC effects do not apply to non-combatants. The target of a cc ability must be flagged in order to suffer the CC effects. This prevents players from opening attacks that stun players during a pull for example.

- Corruption gain also takes into account level disparity between the player killed and the corrupted. The greater the disparity the higher the corruption accrued.

- PK alts would be highly ineffective, since acquiring corruption will apply dampening effects on skill dmg for PvP the higher your corruption score becomes.

- Working corruption off through exp grinding also takes significantly longer than L2, and during that time we’ve created a bounty system that reveals corrupt player locations on the map.

It is true that Ashes is a PvX game. And that means it won’t be for everyone. And that’s ok.

Testing will further refine our approach for corruption, but as a system it is core to introducing risk vs reward in Ashes, while disincentivizing griefing.

If you have any questions feel free to shoot me a dm on discord or Twitter 💪❤️" - Steven Sharif


I hope this provides some insight into the system that Lucky Ghost may not have highlighted in the video. Carry on! ^_^
about 2 years ago - Vaknar - Direct link
Azherae

MixaZavr

Azherae

This doesn't QUITE clarify enough, @Vaknar, so if SOMEHOW you have just ONE more answer from Steven it would help, especially if y'all aren't planning to make a whole specific post about it (someone else surely will, might be me).

I just want to know if we can interpret this part EXACTLY AS WRITTEN.

Abilities with CC effects do not apply to non-combatants. The target of a cc ability must be flagged in order to suffer the CC effects. This prevents players from opening attacks that stun players during a pull for example.

I think the most reasonable way to interpret this is:

"If your ability does only CC, it cannot affect non-combatants. If it does damage and CC, it can do the damage but the CC will not function."

However I can see an interpretation that is:
"If your ability does only CC, it cannot affect non-combatants. If it does damage and CC, it will not do the damage and the CC will not function."

Which, to me, are very different things, and I feel it would be counterproductive to make a whole post just 'discussing which of them is more likely', so IF this is a decided factor, or even if 'it differs by ability', we might be able to have a much more productive conversation on it.

Thanks as always.



My. Interpretation is this - if ability has a CC effect, it just doesn't start to cast.



That could limit a LOT of the potential CC effect types in the game, and reduce the complexity of the game as a whole, if it was true.

It also wouldn't matter if there were such a thing as a ground template CC. If I augmented my Hallowed Ground to also slow enemies in the radius and explicitly cast it as 'Full flagged, hits all Greens it touches', I want it to slow them, but you also can't 'control whether or not I'm allowed to cast it' as easily.



Of your various interpretations, which do you feel would be best for Ashes of Creation and why? 🤔