📝 Dev Discussion #61 - Time Dedication ⌛

Glorious Ashes community - it's time for another Dev Discussion! Dev Discussion topics are kind of like a "reverse Q&A" - rather than you asking us questions about Ashes of Creation, we want to ask YOU what your thoughts are. Our design team has compiled a list of burning questions we'd love to get your feedback on regarding gameplay, your past MMO experiences, and more. Join in on the Dev Discussion and share what makes gaming special to you! Dev Discussion - Time Dedication How much time do you think someone should invest in order to become an expert at an MMORPG? What are the differences between an expert player versus a casual player - time commitment, skill, and game knowledge? ----- Here are some additional thought-starters that might help you with this discussion:

• "Expert" and "Casual" can be subjective terms. What does being an expert or a casual mean to you?
• What are the differences you see in casual vs expert-level play on a day-to-day basis in your favorite MMORPGs?
• Is total time spent in an MMORPG an important factor to you?
• Do you feel you're an expert in some MMORPGs or systems within them, but not in others? If so, please explain :
)

Nerror;c-443645

Vaknar;d-59047

Dev Discussion - Time Dedication How much time do you think someone should invest in order to become an expert at an MMORPG? What are the differences between an expert player versus a casual player - time commitment, skill, and game knowledge?

What exactly are you trying to figure out here? Development-wise. What's the point of this question? Or, which system(s) are you unsure of how to implement that you need this answered? I am not trying to be facetious here, I genuinely don't understand the purpose of this Dev Discussion, so please clarify if you can @Vaknar :smile:

The point is for us to have a conversation about time dedication ;) What defines being an expert in something in an MMORPG? Do you feel you're an expert in some MMORPGs or systems within them, but not in others? If so, please explain :)

Damokles;c-443777

"Expert" is hard to define in my opinion. I think that you need to at least dedicate 2-3 hours a day to get gud in any game though. ^^

"Expert" can indeed be a subjective term. I think your example of what makes an expert to you is a good example of how we all can interpret this word differently!

Nerror;c-443784

Vaknar;c-443771

Nerror;c-443645

Vaknar;d-59047

Dev Discussion - Time Dedication How much time do you think someone should invest in order to become an expert at an MMORPG? What are the differences between an expert player versus a casual player - time commitment, skill, and game knowledge?

What exactly are you trying to figure out here? Development-wise. What's the point of this question? Or, which system(s) are you unsure of how to implement that you need this answered? I am not trying to be facetious here, I genuinely don't understand the purpose of this Dev Discussion, so please clarify if you can @Vaknar :smile:

The point is for us to have a conversation about time dedication ;) What defines being an expert in something in an MMORPG? Do you feel you're an expert in some MMORPGs or systems within them, but not in others? If so, please explain :)

Ok. :smile: I still don't quite understand the why of it all, but for me it's not really about time dedication as the main factor. It's about "wanting to be the very best, like no one ever was" - Ash Ketchum. It's primarily a mindset thing. Time can also be a factor for sure, if the aspect you want to become an expert in requires a lot of muscle memory for example. Combat with a specific class is an obvious one. But the time dedication needed can vary wildly depending on age, reaction time, ability to keep a cool head, fine motor skills and analytical capability and quick thinking. Anywhere between 100 hours to never, depending on the person. For something like crafting, you can probably become an expert without even logging into the game, if you can find all the info on the web. A few hours ingame I guess, to actually check if the info is true.

This response makes me think you do totally get the why of the question ;) I think your example here of muscle memory is very interesting! Especially with combat. Also, the idea that perhaps "Expert" has no ceiling at all (if that is what you meant by "100 hours to never, depending on the person."

JustVine;c-443789

Vaknar;c-443771

Nerror;c-443645

Vaknar;d-59047

Dev Discussion - Time Dedication How much time do you think someone should invest in order to become an expert at an MMORPG? What are the differences between an expert player versus a casual player - time commitment, skill, and game knowledge?

What exactly are you trying to figure out here? Development-wise. What's the point of this question? Or, which system(s) are you unsure of how to implement that you need this answered? I am not trying to be facetious here, I genuinely don't understand the purpose of this Dev Discussion, so please clarify if you can @Vaknar :smile:

The point is for us to have a conversation about time dedication ;) What defines being an expert in something in an MMORPG? Do you feel you're an expert in some MMORPGs or systems within them, but not in others? If so, please explain :)

Oh I understand, you personally are just trying to get a sense of the community not the dev team this time? That makes sense. You might want to change the header on the opening post in that case though.

That's not what I said ;) The goal here is for us, the community, to give our thoughts and opinions on the topic - which is time dedication. Conversations happening in Dev Discussions often assist the team in understanding opinions, biases, preferences, etc. Perhaps I can reiterate the question for you: What does being an expert or a casual mean to you? What are the differences you see in casual vs expert-level play on a day-to-day basis in your favorite MMORPGs?

Leukael;c-443799

Vaknar;d-59047

How much time do you think someone should invest in order to become an expert at an MMORPG? What are the differences between an expert player versus a casual player - time commitment, skill, and game knowledge?

Time: Casual players would player around 6 hours a week at maximum. Experts would fall between double to triple that number depending on the complexity of a game. Skill: Skill expression in a casual player are strictly technical. They know the rotation and can execute skill shots. They are on their own merits good at what in basics terms is their gameplay experience. Skill expression with an expert should be in being able to play around others are varying skills effectively. They're able to use their skills to turn a situation from a loss to having a chance to succeed. Knowledge: Casual players knowledge should be strictly driven by first person experience. Expert players should have learned how their abilities interact with both allies and enemies (and their skills.) This knowledge should then be leveraged in how they play (skill above) to turn the tides of a fight.

Interesting to see the associate of casual and expert play with a specific amount of time dedicated! I think your definitions of skill expression for casual play vs expert are very intruiging. I could see this applying to many different games beyond just MMORPGs!

Azherae;c-443796

Azherae;c-443790

AlphaCala;c-443781

I assume this question is being asked because of Asmond talked about it yesterday. I would say simply look at Classic WOW. Its easy to start for new players and gets more complex as you go. Retail WOW made it to hard to start as a new player. Theres a reason im playing Classic and not Retail WOW. Make the combat and play style complex while making the progession of the game simple and easy to understand. That way you wont scare away people 5 years into the game who havent played.

Oh, is this a situation where we can watch/link an Asmongold video segment for context, then? Because if we can at least use whatever Asmon was using as the 'definition' of 'expert', we might get somewhere... hopefully I wasn't too far off in all my own stuff.

Vaknar;c-443792

Damokles;c-443777

"Expert" is hard to define in my opinion. I think that you need to at least dedicate 2-3 hours a day to get gud in any game though. ^^

"Expert" can indeed be a subjective term. I think your example of what makes an expert to you is a good example of how we all can interpret this word differently!

Nvm on that then, AlphaCala, doesn't seem like this is related in that way, at least for answering (therefore I won't derail by linking the Asmon thing).

If you feel that the Asmongold video is relevant to the topic (time dedication, or of casual and expert experiences) then I don't think it would derail the thread :)

BlindingRadiance;c-443805

For this game. At the end of the day it is an mmorpg so is important to allow massive PvP in which case it essential to create incentives to go all out

Looping this comment into the thread; how do you feel expert and casual experience should play a factor in mass PvP?

JustVine;c-443816

Vaknar;c-443798

JustVine;c-443789

Vaknar;c-443771

Nerror;c-443645

Vaknar;d-59047

Dev Discussion - Time Dedication How much time do you think someone should invest in order to become an expert at an MMORPG? What are the differences between an expert player versus a casual player - time commitment, skill, and game knowledge?

What exactly are you trying to figure out here? Development-wise. What's the point of this question? Or, which system(s) are you unsure of how to implement that you need this answered? I am not trying to be facetious here, I genuinely don't understand the purpose of this Dev Discussion, so please clarify if you can @Vaknar :smile:

The point is for us to have a conversation about time dedication ;) What defines being an expert in something in an MMORPG? Do you feel you're an expert in some MMORPGs or systems within them, but not in others? If so, please explain :)

Oh I understand, you personally are just trying to get a sense of the community not the dev team this time? That makes sense. You might want to change the header on the opening post in that case though.

That's not what I said ;) The goal here is for us, the community, to give our thoughts and opinions on the topic - which is time dedication. Conversations happening in Dev Discussions often assist the team in understanding opinions, biases, preferences, etc. Perhaps I can reiterate the question for you: What does being an expert or a casual mean to you? What are the differences you see in casual vs expert-level play on a day-to-day basis in your favorite MMORPGs?

Ah I see, I think I came to the wrong conclusion due to the use of your profile pic and the lack of clarity but I think I'm picking up what you are putting down. My apologies then Vaknar, that sounds like you are in a position I don't envy.

Haha, I forgot that this was my profile pic! I actually have had this profile pic since last summer, I believe! I didn't think it might confuse. I just thought it looked cool 🥺