- Question: Is it correrct, these "immortal flames" are only for the hunt pass progress and not a new currency? So when the hunt pass is done, the immortal flames and the Bounty System is redundant?
Question: Can you still get immortal flames from break parts?
The Immortal Flames are the Hunt Pass Currency for the upcoming pass.
Currently, there's nothing to do with excess Hunt Pass Currency. It's something that we're exploring and hope to build out in the future.
Hey y'all!
I'm thrilled to see this announcement going out and to see how Slayers like the bounty system.
We've been gathering your feedback about the frustrations of farming break parts and other constrictions in Hunt Pass progression. These changes and this new system are the result of your feedback in action.
We're already looking forward to seeing what you think of bounties and how we can continue to improve this system!
ah yeaaaaaaah
Criticisms aside cough inventory management cough, these guys sure are trying to get things right. Kudos to PHXL
<3
There was a great suggestion on twitter, in which excess hunt pass currency or bounty tokens could be used, to buy maybe older hunt pass items or small cosmetics. This would allow those who finish the hunt pass early, a chance to get more. Say it unlocks at maxing the hunt pass.
I think, revisions of gear would be a great thing. A better looking or more detailed Drask alternative armor, or etc.
I like this idea.
I'm actually a little worried for this change.
Some quick napkin math based on worse case scenarios (you get only bronze cards) out of the 80 tokens give with the pass valued at 20 xp (assuming 100 = 1 level) puts you at 16 levels gained from completing 80(!) objectives.
Collecting 60 of any consumable is no small feat, and in weekly challenges, used to reward 150 points. Now we're down to 40 points for the same effort.
I'm also concerned with the premium tokens. Why would players ever be in a state where they would need to pay real money for the privilege of working towards the pass? This feature seems better suited as a bonus for premium pass owners where they get an extra token a day. As the paid tokens stand currently, they seem like a fix for an intentionally flawed system.
I am also concerned with how many challenges will be required to even hit 50, if that will still be the cap. If 80 bronze objectives will net you 16 levels, then you'll need to do over 240 bronze objectives to hit 50. I don't know how common silver or gold challenges will be, but completing over 200 challenges (no math done for unknown distributions) sounds like a tall order, let alone grinding for 120+ token drops.
I feel like every new system made for this game is intentionally handicapped, so that we can be nickel and dimed for a bandaid fix. I say this as someone who has over 10,000 plat invested in the game, and I'm honestly concerned for the future of this game.
We spent a lot of time on balance with a few goals in mind. A couple goals are:
Thanks for the feedback, looking forward to hearing more about how bounties feel when they land!
I don't know if I am to put trust in this new system with this kind of rewards and spend 10 euros worth of platinum without being certain to be able to complete the hunt pass. I guess I'll have to wait until I get to hunt pass level 50 to buy the pass, and if I don't reach it, I won't buy it.
But please, stop writing this is what community wanted, because I highly doubt community wanted this. I want to have fun with this game, and most importantly I want to do more activities besides the endless grind for "tasks" which give you 0,4% hunt pass progress each; such as mastery farming and trials.
PS: it is not reassuring that you created a new paid currency to unlock quests, it looks a little bit of a predatory marketing, that makes you pay to fully obtain what you already payed for.
A couple core goals for the system were to allow players to catch up even if they don't start the hunt pass on day one, and also to reduce the daily login requirement so players can finish the hunt pass without needing to log in every day.
Premium bounty tokens are available for players who either want to complete the pass faster or who miss out on a lot of the daily login collectibles. Again we have adjusted the daily login requirement so the system will be more forgiving than it currently is.
Looking forward to more feedback when it releases, thanks!
My main concern is "how many silver and golds do we get?" Clearly, you'll need to farm hunts to get more access to quests, but I'm not sold on that system at all.
Using a part breaker build, you just progressed your pass with EXP. Now, we have to do external hunts to unlock quests which allow us to farm objectives that eventually grant EXP.
My question is: How many hours does Phoenix Lab's foresee as the time to complete a 5 week pass?
Additionally, why does their financial team foresee enough players needing to purchase premium huntpass coins to make it worth it for both them and the player?
The required hours to complete a pass is based on a bunch of variables (average hunt length, how well players stack up their bounties, how often players log in for the daily collectibles). The main goals of the system are to make it easier for players to complete the HP without logging in every day and to allow players to catch up if they don't start at the beginning of the Hunt Pass (ie. we are making it easier overall).
The reason for changing break part XP is that it had several unintended side effects, for example a huge range in XP earning based on player build type, or players farming weak behemoths to progress more quickly while reporting that it feels like a chore. Another goal with bounties is to allow players to work on other goals like Mastery while still making progress on bounties, so that it adds to the experience rather than presenting players with conflicting goals. We won't know the results until it releases, but we'll continue to iterate after launch. Thanks again for the feedback!
So you got feedback that weeklies were too grindy and you fix it by making them more grindy?
Taking "Burning for You" as an example, 4 hunts for 20 points, 5 points per hunt.
The weeklies were 10 hunts for 150 points, or 15 points per hunt, not counting breaks which made the difference even higher.
So, it seems the grind increased 3-4x.
Even counting the theoretical gold version, which seems to be double the work for 5x the reward would be 8 hunts for 100 points, which is still worse than old weeklies at 12.5 points per hunt. Also no chance of extra points for breaking parts.
Is something going on or did you totally miss the mark?
Answered elsewhere, but as a quick note players will be able to work on up to four bounties at a time, and the bounties are designed to allow for stacking progress (for players who are clever in their draft strategy). Thanks for the feedback, looking forward to hearing how it feels after release!
This looks like a huge improvement on nearly every front. Only thing I am worried about is how well balanced the time investment is. If it will be too easy or too hard to complete in 35 days (especially coming off of the current hunt pass which basically demands you do the soul-crushing farm).
But this is really, really good looking. Only suggestion I would have is to possibly add "seasonal cards" in future passes that have challenges that fit the theme of the pass. But that would just be a small improvement off an amazing looking foundation.
Thanks for the feedback-- we've made an effort to balance things to require less daily logins and designed the bounties to allow players to make progress on multiple bounties at once (while also being compatible with other goals like working on Mastery). Looking forward to hearing how it feels after release!
Don't remove part breaks. Farming tokens to get more bounties is the same as farming part breaks, but with extra steps.
I am not sure what feedback you guys listened to, but i don't think anyone was asking for the removal of part breaks for HP.
It just needed to be polished, but you guys removed it and added a worse way to farm HP points (talking about farming tokens only).
It also seems like the people who could only play in weekends and were depending on the 6 levels from the weeklies will be getting the short end of the stick from now on.
I will wait to test it for myself, but it seems weird that we are not going to receive enough tokens to be able to complete the HP with having the worst luck (only getting bronze bounties). So what will the solution be? Farm random behemoths for tokens or buy tokens from store, right?! Or pay 200 plat per level to advance :/
These are genuine concerns about the new system.
The bounty rolls are balanced to guarantee all players will receive the same amount of bronze, silver and gold bounties. Check above for the explanation around switching out break parts for bounty tokens. Thanks for the feedback!
It does not seem like you can passively finish the hunt pass. Probably not doable without farming extra tokens which is a bad system for a something you already pay 10$.
They should have left the Part Break farm in because getting tokens instead of points is just more of the same with extra steps.
The bounties system is designed to be more friendly in terms of requiring less login days each week and allowing players to stack up to four bounties at a time. Looking forward to feedback on how it feels after release!
I actually like the system because it fits more with the monster hunter theme, you have the task to do something, you go do it if you want to, I just hope there aren't tasks that are too rng based or impossible to do without a fully coordinated team, although being able to choose between 3 already mitigates those chances
One goal with the bounty design is to offer some complementary bounties that are easy to make progress on while working on other goals (like Mastery), as well as more interesting challenges that players can opt into if they want to try something a bit different. Looking forward to hearing more feedback as we go!
I'm surprised nobody has asked this yet: with hunt pass currencies leaving the break parts tables, in what way will the tokens drop from hunts?
Will they be break part rewards or behemoth loot (end-of-fight) rewards? If they're behemoth loot rewards (which is what the phrase "... hunts will have a chance to drop a Bounty Token" in the news article implies), what rarity will they have? Will they be an additional roll on the loot table, or will they replace another loot reward? Will the Elite Hunt Pass affect their drop rate or give another chance to earn one on a hunt?
They will be awarded as part of behemoth loot, and no longer require part breaks. They are a new roll on the loot table. We will adjust the drop rates as we balance the system after release, but generally the harder the behemoth, the higher chance of earning a token.
This seems like its making it a little bit more grindy.
Also... are you guys going to extend current hunt pass. It was shorter already, and now you cut two more days off it.I just did 7 hunts of bloodfire embermane, getting a lot of breaks and no drops. Seems like I've got to play my whole weekend to finish this one in time, and I've been playing daily since this one started.
A big part of our goals with bounties is to make completing the hunt pass more consistent. Specifically the balance requires fewer daily logins each week, and we increase how many tokens are awarded in the hunt pass to account for shorter duration passes.
The current break part system is very inconsistent and that is a big part of why we shifted to just awarding tokens sometimes after successful hunts (the harder the behemoth, the higher the chance of earning a token)
Oh great a new system that rewards even less hunt pass items. First you nerf bonus cheats and now this. Maybe you should create a functional game before pushing hard into monetizing everything.
You can work on up to 4 bounties simultaneously which substantially increases bounty progress. Generally the bounties system is balanced to require less daily logins and we ensure that players are granted enough tokens to finish the pass as long as they show up regularly. Thanks for the feedback!
I'm disappointed that break part points are going away. I liked being able to go in to patrols with whatever build I preferred and grind for points if I didn't feel like completing weeklies. Now it seems like I won't have a choice.
Bounties are designed to complement other goals so you can more easily work on both at the same time. Also, every hunt you complete (except for lessers) has a chance to drop an extra bounty token. The tougher the hunt the better chance to earn a token.
The draft is designed to offer some spicy/specific bounties as well as more generic, complementary ones to fit all tastes.
Don't remove part breaks. Farming tokens to get more bounties is the same as farming part breaks, but with extra steps.
I am not sure what feedback you guys listened to, but i don't think anyone was asking for the removal of part breaks for HP.
It just needed to be polished, but you guys removed it and added a worse way to farm HP points (talking about farming tokens only).
It also seems like the people who could only play in weekends and were depending on the 6 levels from the weeklies will be getting the short end of the stick from now on.
I will wait to test it for myself, but it seems weird that we are not going to receive enough tokens to be able to complete the HP with having the worst luck (only getting bronze bounties). So what will the solution be? Farm random behemoths for tokens or buy tokens from store, right?! Or pay 200 plat per level to advance :/
These are genuine concerns about the new system.
Thanks for taking the time to share well-reasoned feedback :D
Don't remove part breaks. Farming tokens to get more bounties is the same as farming part breaks, but with extra steps.
The number of tokens that you'll receive from the Hunt Pass etc. should make this process less arduous and give players more choice about how they spend their time.
For example, if you didn't want to farm breaks then you were really stuck. Now, you can pursue other activities.
I appreciate that according to your non-descriptive point of view, that I "don't seem to understand what was said in the article."
I also appreciate that you've managed to type as much as you did while managing to evade every point that I raised.
I can say in one sentence what took you four, and I won't even use capslock randomly: If you don't want to complete the quest you've chosen, you can pick another quest at the cost of a token.
That wasn't even a point of contention. What are you even going off about?
How is picking 60 flowers, which was an already old and terrible objective, new or exciting? Better yet, how is grinding random mobs for the privilege of grinding for a token to get a random quest we'll have to grind again better than the old system of simply breaking a part and getting EXP for the past.
You're throwing the game's flippant history at me as though I haven't been here since closed alpha. I genuinely don't care about the one time deals they've made in the past. I'm primarily concerned with the present and the future of this game.
Since you like comparing this game to other MTX games, here's my opinion: Selling quests that you can buy for real money isn't only ridiculous, no other games with paid passes do that. No system in any F2P game should even allow for the concept.
If you want another response, please answer this short survey: Tell me in your words why you would or wouldn't pay for the new premium tokens. Tell me in your words how many hours you think is fair to spend in game to complete the paid hunt pass. Tell me in your words how much money you've put towards the future of this game.
To tackle a couple more of your comments, I'll break down the history of battle passes, and what the premium tokens address.
The annuity is a concept that appeared in Mobile games whereby could pay a small fixed amount at the beginning of the month for a ton of great content (typically at a big discount compared to the value of direct purchase). In order to collect this value you have to log in every day to collect a piece of the package. Missing a day means missing that chunk of content. Ultimately the trade is to get an excellent price on the content in return for showing up each day to play.
Then came the battle pass, which is essentially the same system but tuned up with a quest system. Ultimately it comes down to the same essential offer of getting a better deal in return for putting time into the game.
The current weekly quests are pretty fragile because they are worth so much-- if you don't complete it because you were extra busy it makes it very tough to catch up. Bounties shift from fixed schedule weekly quests to flexible schedule daily quests. This means it's easier to catch up and easier to complete the hunt pass on your schedule. We have adjusted the balance to be more forgiving if you miss daily collectibles, but you are still expected to log in a few days a week (thats the core of the system after all). Currently the only catch up mechanic is purchasing level skips, but with bounties we decided to offer the choice to buy more tokens at a price cheaper than level skips so you still have the chance to get a better price in return for playing a bit more.
Hope this context helps, this feature was motivated by the desire to make it easier to catch up on bounties and easier to work on hunt pass on your own schedule.
You have to do 7.5 bounties to equal a single weekly or 30 to equal the current progression from weeklies (which can also be done simulyaneously.) According to the information we'll have 80 tokens assuming a 35 day huntpass and daily login but to gain the same huntpass progression we'd require 150 tokens (5 weeks of weeklies vs 150 bounties.)
Don't try to peddle this as better for the player cause we can smell the bullshit from a mile away.
PS - Requiring daily logins to get the maximum tokens is the exact opposite of requiring "less daily logins."
sorry for the confusion-- let me try again. In the new system you can get XP in four ways.
Daily tokens that acrue each day (regardless of whether you log in)
Tokens earned as rewards on the Hunt Pass
Daily Ramsgate collectibles (resets each day)
Extra tokens that are granted on successful hunts (replacing break part XP).
The old balance was such that if you missed your daily ramsgate collectible XP, you had to farm that XP back with break parts. The balance with bounties is more forgiving, such that missing a few days of ramsgate logins will not require additional farming. Of course that means players that do collect all daily ramsgate collectibles will complete their HP faster, but the new system is more forgiving (less grind for missing ramsgate collectibles).
Hope this helps, keep in mind that you will be able to work on 4 bounties simultaneously, and if you coordinate your drafts you can complete bounties very quickly.
Thanks for your response. I would still like to know if the extra rolls on the loot table granted by the Elite Hunt Pass will also give another chance for Hunt Token drops though. If so, that would actually be two bonus sources of Tokens provided by the Elite Hunt Pass (one on the Hunt track itself, plus this), which might give players more of an incentive to buy it. And if there is a chance of dropping a Token in the Elite Hunt Pass bonus loot rolls, would that be in addition to a Token if one drops from the normal hunt rewards (i.e. could someone with the Elite Hunt Pass get two Tokens in a hunt)?
Great question, let me look into that.
Thank you for your answer. I really like the fact that we can make progress in more than one bounties.
I'm slightly concerned about the drop rate of tokens, but if it's anything like breaking parts, or a standard amount (1 per hunt for example), we should be fine :)
we've tried to update the balance to require less farming than was required with break parts. As will all systems though, we won't know if we got the balance right until we release, and we'll be keeping a close eye on it.
devtrackers.gg
