[2019] Shareable Bookmarks - Public Testing on Duality!

Greetings Capsuleers!

As we’ve been discussing for some time now, we’ve been working internally on a feature called “Shareable Bookmarks" Today we’re excited to announce the beginning or a public testing period, taking place on our alternate public testing server, Duality. The server has been updated with a recent mirror of Tranquility and is now open so please feel free to log in, test out this feature and tell us what you think!

To bring everyone up to speed with the feature, lets recap the details!

Shareable Bookmarks

The Shareable Bookmarks system will entirely replace the existing bookmark or saved location system, allowing you to create links to locations in space that can be navigated to (through the right click menu or places tab of the People and Places window). Whereas previously, Capsuleers could create bookmarks accessible to either themselves or their corporation, this system is designed to be less restrictive and more flexible. In almost all other ways these new bookmarks would be functionally identical to the existing system (for example, we do not intend to change the rules about what you can point a bookmark at).

1. Bookmarks are stored in folders, which are accessed through Access Lists.

• Those folders can be shared with your corp, alliance, coalition, friends, whoever you want!
• Folders can contain sub-folders to allow bookmarks to be further organized (Existing bookmark folders would be converted into sub-folders).
• Sub-folders are just a one-level organisation tool, they cannot be nested and do not have individual permission settings.
• Shared folders must be “subscribed” to - they do not pop up automatically.
• Shared folders can be linked (By dragging the folder into a text field) to allow anyone with access to subscribe.

2. Shared folders have multiple Access levels, each of which can be assigned an access list

• View – View, Warp to bookmarks
• Use – Add bookmarks, Edit/Delete own bookmarks, Copy Bookmarks to a different folder
• Manage – Edit/Remove bookmarks or subfolders
• Admin – Delete/Rename Shared Folder, Change ACL

3. Capsuleers can set Shared Folders they have subscribed to active/inactive

• Only bookmarks in active folders will be visible in space (r-click menu, sensor overlay, brackets in space).
• Bookmarks can only be added to active folders.
• Capsuleers will have a maximum number of active folders at any time.

4. Bookmarks can be set to expire automatically

• Bookmark can be set to expire automatically after some time (from a set pre-determined choices).
• Bookmarks saved in Folders or Sub-folders will default to the previously selected expiry setting.

5. Addition/Removal/Editing of Shared Bookmarks, Folders and Sub Folders will happen instantly (pending performance testing) for all characters with access

• The ability to warp to a newly created bookmark will now have a hard delay of 2 minutes rather than the old 5 min cache time.
• Bookmarks that you cannot yet warp to will not appear in right click menu.

6. The new proposed limits to bookmarks and folders, Personal and Shared, are as follows. Please note that these numbers may change based on performance testing:

• Bookmarks in Shared folder = 500
• Bookmarks in personal folder = 3000
• Maximum active shared bookmark folders = 3
• Maximum active personal bookmark folders = 5
• Maximum bookmark folders created and existing = 30
• Maximum bookmark folders known = 30

For the less arithmetically inclined, that will mean a new total of 15,000 (active) personal bookmarks and 1,500 (active) shared bookmarks, compared to 13,000 personal and 500 corporate currently.

7. All existing personal and corporate bookmarks have been converted

• All bookmark vouchers have been converted to new bookmarks for their respective owners (Capsuleer or Corporation).
• Please be aware that after the voucher conversion your total bookmarks can exceed the limits, which might cause client performance problems. You may find that you need to delete some bookmarks to be able to add more.
• Existing Corporation bookmarks have been converted to a shared folder.
• A transitional access list has been created for each corporation that includes the CEO and directors, this access list will be used for the “Manage” and “Admin” levels of any corporation bookmark folders, and the default corporation access list will be used for the View and Use access levels.

As this feature is still in development, expect there to be some bugs, and some placeholder UI and text. Please report any issues you experience, and provide feedback for any things you feel should be improved. Some specific known issues to note for now:

• The options for bookmark expiry are not final.
• Some of the text (like help text or error messages) is not final.
• Localized names of the transitional corp access lists are not not fully functional.

There we have it! We’re very excited to bring this feature into your hands. Thanks for taking the time to read this thread and please join us on Duality to test this feature out. We look forward to the discussion!

CCP Lebowski for Team Five 0

Correct, you can use the same access lists you use for Structures, or create new ones

As bookmark vouchers will no longer exist after this change, selling escalations through contracts will no longer be possible.

You’ll be able to informally trade bookmarks by selling access to shared folders.

You can do this even more remotely than before as you never need to create a contract.

Folders not sub-folders. Your current folders will be sub-folders in the new system and the amount you can have is not being reduced.

Bookmarks per folder (not sub-folder) is 3000. You can have up to 30 folders if you wanted (90,000) with a limit of 5 folders (15,000 bookmarks) active at any time

These folders will now be subfolders, and the amount you can have is not changing.

For anyone with a lot of bookmarks and/or vouchers I’d strongly advise that you log into Duality to see whats become of them after the transition

Sorry I posted before finishing my reply, edited above now

I’m pretty sure we’re at crossed wires here, you may need some organizational changes but the total amount of bookmarks you can have active is going up (13k - 15k) and the total max you could have is increasing to 90k. Please take a look at the system on Duality (as we’ve converted all your bookmarks there) and tell us how it looks

I’d strongly suggest going and taking a look at your corp folders and bookmarks on Duality, we’ve converted them all now so you can see how it will work

“Do you want to create a new folder now?”

Did you create a new folder?

Ok, I understand that this is confusing you so lets explain again:

• You can have up to 30 folders (shared or personal)
• Each folder can have up to 3000 bookmarks (30x3k = 90k)
• Each folder can have many sub-folders
• There is no limit to the amount of bookmarks in a subfolder (other than the total limit for its parent folder)
• Of your 30 folders, you can have up to 5 personal visible at any time (15k bms visible)

So yes, the new system will take some adjustment, some of your subfolders may need to be moved into their own folders, your sub-folder with over 3k bookmarks will need to be split up. But you can have way more bookmarks in total with a bit more organization.

I think we’re still crossing wires here. You can have all 13,000 of your current personal bookmarks visible at once PLUS 2000 more

Ok thanks for the specific example @Zhalyd_Lyehin, it makes it much clearer what your concerns are.

I’m assuming that many of your sub-folders (other than your huge null-sec one contain much less than 3000 bookmarks? If so you could certainly put many of these sub folders into one single main folder, perhaps called “General” or “Safes” or whatever organizational methodology make sense to you.

Hope this helps

This is a long way from your previous statements that the system is “not viable”, “not sustainable”, “fundamentally flawed”, “requiring people to delete things”.

I’ve been open about the fact that these changes will take some adjustment, but I’ve no doubt you’ll be able to develop an efficient organization system once this is released.

Never the less, thanks for your feedback. I’ll raise this with the team and see if there’s anything we can do to address your concerns.

Could you please explain this further? I am somehow missing, what exactly you see as the critical failure.

Regarding selling escalations: It seems like we would need to create a whole extra feature to support selling escalations separately, which would be too much work, given that selling escalations is only used by a small group of players. Furthermore: trading escalations is a feature, which was very likely not intended originally, and we are not making it impossible to share escalations - just less convenient for selling / less secure.
I am still interested in ideas on how to improve the experience, without having to add an extra feature (which would very likely not be approved internally).

Is the ability to mark the folders as inactive not good enough for your uses? Why?

To provide some clarification on this point, we absolutely understand that escalation trading is common among the people who run content that provides escalations. The point Habakuk was making was that escalations amount to a very small fraction of content run by the playerbase at large. As such, while its super unfortunate that the emergent gameplay of trading escalations will be negatively impacted by the changes detailed here, we have currently taken the choice not to delay/cancel the feature or significantly increase its scope due to this, as the other benefits it provides outweigh the negatives.

Again, we understand that for your specific situation, this may not be the case (i.e Trading escalations may be more important to you than improved sharing functionality) and for that we apologize.

This is for the context menu, when right-clicking in space? I am aware that the current solution is not yet perfect (the list grows quite long, if you have many folders), and we will for sure improve this aspect (but I am not 100% sure yet on the details).

Personal bookmarks are not shareable, but you can create a shared bookmark folder, where only you and your alts have access.