Original Post — Direct link

Tl;dr: Duplicate protection is not functioning the way a lot of people expected. In case it's considered by design by Team 5, and not a bug, I want to catalogue all the messed up experiences that result from this in an effort to convince them that it should be considered a very bad experience and a bug that should be fixed.

I've seen lots of people finding duplicate protection not working the way they exist, including for myself. There's a degree to which it does work: Caverns of Time packs will give you unowned Caverns-exclusive cards before it gives you cards you already own from other sets. But it does not in general give you unowned Caverns cards that also belong to other sets before giving you owned Caverns cards (e.g. you can get an additional "Caverns" A Light in the Darkness even when you own already both "Whispers" A Light in the Darkness before you get a Worgen Greaser even if you don't own Worgen Greaser). A lot of people were not expecting this. The blog post made it sound like it applies in the more general case:

Duplicate protection applies to both the original version and the Caverns of Time version of all 113 reprinted cards. That means that if you already have these cards from the original set that they appeared in, you won’t open them again in Caverns of Time packs until you have all cards of a given rarity from the Caverns of Time set – meaning that players who already have the reprinted cards will be able to get all the new cards even faster!

Note that the blog post does not say "until you have all cards of a given rarity exclusive to the Caverns of Time set", which is what would more accurately describe the way it's actually working. What's going on in general appears to be that the post made it sound like the different versions of the card work interchangeably, but in reality there are 2 separate versions that are treated as separate in most ways. At this point, I'm not sure if this is considered a bug or is the intended design, but below is an attempt to catalogue (feel free to suggest other things I missed that I should add) all the negative and/or confusing experiences that result from the way it currently works, so that hopefully if it is by design Blizzard can see that it is a bad system that should be fixed:

  1. The value of Caverns of Time packs (both non-golden and golden) goes down a lot if they cannot be used to help fill out collections. It circumvents the whole point of duplicate protection in the first place if I can keep getting duplicates of cards I already own rather than getting a card I don't own, e.g. A Light in the Darkness over Worgen Greaser.
  2. Cards earned through Caverns of Time packs do not count towards the achievements for getting all the cards in particular sets.
  3. A corollary is that when you get duplicates from Caverns of Time, the collection does not consider them duplicates for the purpose of disenchanting (i.e. you can't just press the global disenchant button for them). If you do want to disenchant, it's hard work to navigate to the specific set to disenchant them that a lot of casual players won't figure out. Similarly, searching for "Extra" does not show the duplicate copies as extra.
  4. Adding to that point, it is unclear if it is even considered "safe" to disenchant duplicate copies across sets. If, for example, Mean Streets Worgen Greaser and Caverns Worgen Greaser are effectively considered two separate cards, if a future Twist format includes Mean Streets but not Caverns, does it mean I can't play Worgen Greaser if I only own the Caverns version but not the Mean Streets version? Can the developers give us assurance they will be treated as interchangeable? Or can the developers give us assurance that Twist formats would always be set up to avoid this problem? Or is this actually by design to make more money by getting you to need to actually own both versions of all these cards to truly have a full collection?
  5. An added issue is that this devalues Wild packs in general. Even if you don't purchase any Caverns packs, and even after you've got the Caverns-exclusive cards, you can now get duplicates of cards you already own before getting other unowned cards. For example, if I'm missing Rinling's Rifle from for Darkmoon Faire, I can now start getting the Caverns version of A Light in the Darkness (even though I own both Whispers versions) before getting to these unowned cards that I want. Again, this is basically screwing duplicate protection in general even for folks who don't want to participate in Caverns packs specifically.
External link →
9 months ago - /u/HS_Celestalon - Direct link

If I'm understanding you correctly, it does actually work the way you hoped it would. You will get cards you've never gotten first.

The piece you're probably missing is that cards you disenchanted (since 2020) count as having been acquired. Once you've ever gotten all the cards of a rarity, even if you disenchanted them, you'll start getting (random) duplicates.

9 months ago - /u/HS_Celestalon - Direct link

Originally posted by HS_Celestalon

If I'm understanding you correctly, it does actually work the way you hoped it would. You will get cards you've never gotten first.

The piece you're probably missing is that cards you disenchanted (since 2020) count as having been acquired. Once you've ever gotten all the cards of a rarity, even if you disenchanted them, you'll start getting (random) duplicates.

To your specific list of points...
1. They do fill in holes, per first reply.

  1. This is correct. Collection achievements are based on collecting that set.

  2. This is the same as with normals and goldens. You may want both for cosmetic reasons, so we don't auto-disenchant them. We think that letting you customize that to choose to do so would be nice, and hope to add that at some point.

  3. If a card is in a valid set in a format, ALL versions of that card will be valid for that format, so you can safely disenchant the other versions. That's the intention. However, that is not currently working for Duels (it's not letting you add old cards), which is a bug we're working to fix soon.

  4. Owning a Caverns version of a card does count toward owning it. If you get Caverns Worgen Greaser, you won't get Gadgetzan Worgen Greaser from a Gadgetzan pack (until you've gotten all the Gadgetzan commons, then it's just random).

9 months ago - /u/HS_Celestalon - Direct link

Originally posted by zulukiwi

Hey Celestalon, appreciate you taking the time to reply! Please hear me out, it is not working at a cosmetic-specific level.

The following is one of (many) examples that happened to me today:

  • I already owned 2 golden A Light in the Darkness (Whispers of the Old Gods versions)
  • I did NOT already own any golden Worgen Greasers (but did own vanillas)
  • I opened a 3rd golden A Light in the Darkness (now a Caverns of Time version) *before* opening a golden Worgen Greaser
  • I am a completionist so I do not disenchant golden cards. I don't think I've EVER disenchanted a golden card (other than ones I get a diamond or signature version of). So it's not explained by me having disenchanted away the golden Worgen Greasers before 2020.

The specific issues I ran into were specific to golden cards. I made an assumption that similar logic applies to non-goldens, but I'll admit don't know for a fact. But could you please clarify whether the above way that goldens are not filling out collections is intended or not?

Edit: Also, for your point about #3, are you saying that you think players might want both a Caverns and Whispers version of the same card in the same quality, for example? (The only difference I'm aware of being the logo behind the card text?)

Edit #2: For added clarity, I believe the above example shows that even though you're saying #5 is meant to count that way, I believe it is not actually counting that away, at a minimum if you look at golden quality specifically.

Ah yes, Goldens do not currently do what you're asking but it's something we've actively been discussing.

9 months ago - /u/HS_Celestalon - Direct link

Originally posted by motazaliad

Hi Celestalon,

Thanks for doing what you're doing to clarify things for people. If I may; I, too, am after some clarification regarding duplicates across Caverns of Time and its feeder-sets.

I opened some old gods packs followed by some caverns packs, and managed to get 2 copies of the Epic card: Crazed Worshiper - one of which came from an old gods pack, the other from caverns. Given this scenario, I have two questions...

  1. Am I now facing the possibility of owning 4 regular versions of the card through opening more old gods / caverns packs (x1 from each set due to not being "duplicates" per se, but rather the same name/stat/effect from two different sets)? Or is this a case of me NOT receiving any more until I get all OTHER epics from either set?
  2. Is there a way to consolidate the cards so that they're both from the SAME set? I know this is nitpicky, but I get a tad pedantic with the aesthetics of my collection and seeing two sets of x1 Crazed Worshiper instead of one set of 2x (from either olds gods OR caverns) is gonna drive me nuts every time I see it.

Thanks in advance for when/if you manage to answer this.

  1. No, once you have 2 total, you won't get it again until you've got all of that rarity (from whatever pack type you opened).
  2. Their watermark is different so they are listed separately for collectors. No current plans to let you swap between them.
9 months ago - /u/HS_Celestalon - Direct link

Originally posted by TerryGonards

Why did y'all set it up where people could old legendaries before getting new stuff?

We should be getting Caverns exclusive cards first THEN the old cards.

All yall did was roll a mini set into WILD PACKS and slap a new pack opening animation on it.

We didn't. You'll always get new cards that you haven't gotten before old cards that you have gotten before (unless you disenchanted them pre-2020), of that rarity.

9 months ago - /u/HS_Celestalon - Direct link

Originally posted by GalleonStar

It would be low priority I know, but worth discussing introducing view modes for your collection that lets you separate by 'collector mode', i.e cards separated by water mark and cosmetics, and an 'identity mode', i.e cards are separated by name.

It would be a nice QOL improvement for deck building. If worried about confusion causing players to disenchant the wrong cards, could have disenchanting only available in Collector Mode.

We agree, something like that would be nice. As you guessed, it just hasn't been high priority yet.

9 months ago - /u/HS_Celestalon - Direct link

Originally posted by TerryGonards

Malorne isn't new

Acidmaw isn't new

Flame Leviathan isn't new

Wickerflame isn't new

Hobart isn't new

I got no NEW Legendaries.

These are not new cards, even after rebalance. They are not even separate from the old cards as they replace them in your collection.

And the fact you are up at around 1:30 am (US Central) responding to people just shows how bad y'all screwed up and now y'all have to play damage control.

I don't sleep, and I respond to players because I care.

Those are indeed reprints. If you got them, it's because either A) You never got them before (or did but disenchanted them before duplicate protection was introduced in 2020), or B) You've gotten ALL of the legendaries in Caverns of Time and are now getting duplicates.

Also, they aren't supposed to 'replace them' in your collection; that's a display bug with the Collection Manager that we're working to fix asap.

9 months ago - /u/HS_Celestalon - Direct link

Originally posted by Narrow_Helicopter278

Owning a Caverns version of a card does count toward owning it. If you get Caverns Worgen Greaser, you won't get Gadgetzan Worgen Greaser from a Gadgetzan pack (until you've gotten all the Gadgetzan commons, then it's just random).

What about something like spawn of shadows not having the same statline between the different versions?

That's a bug and will be fixed shortly.

9 months ago - /u/HS_Celestalon - Direct link

Originally posted by zulukiwi

Hey u/HS_Celestalon, not sure if you're still monitoring this but was hoping you wouldn't mind replying to one specific point. It hasn't been quite sitting right with me that you phrased the above as "what you're asking". I wanted to verify that we're on the same page that we're talking about a behavior that EVERY OTHER SET does follow, not some creative extra behavior I'm dreaming up :) [Not sure if you actually meant it that way, just double-checking]

Here's a post you've made in the past where you note that once you own all cards in a set, goldens will "prefer a card you haven't gotten the golden of". I just wanted to clarify it's this behavior I'm talking about. Other sets guarantee you get goldens you don't have in golden before getting duplicate goldens (of that rarity). Caverns of Time does NOT - you can and I did get duplicate goldens before getting goldens of cards I didn't have goldens of. Yet these golden packs are still being charged at the same high price as other golden packs for sets that do respect this golden duplicate protection.

To be clear, Caverns *does* guarantee that a golden you get will be one you haven't gotten before, just like every other set.

The new thing here is that this is the first time we've done reprints. Goldens are a cosmetic thing, not a functional thing, just like the reprint, so we counted them as tied in priority. We hear the feedback that you'd prefer it if golden trumped different set, and it's something we're discussing for the future.