Original Post — Direct link

Just a concern I'm having. Part of the reason there's some diversity in pro play is to get some champions with magic damage in somewhere.

The new PBE Guinsoo's converts crit chance into on-hit magic damage, meaning that you can build 2/3 crit items, be a massive physical damage threat, and then, as soon as your opponents finish their armor items, build Guinsoo's and convert into doing massive, rapid on-hit magic damage.

Of course, you can also choose not to. Meaning the opponent can never actually itemize against you.

As a matter of fact, I hardly see why the pros won't just start playing Lucian mid every game if he can choose to transform into a scaling magic damage threat late game at the drop of a hat.

In fact...every ADC can do this now. Meaning that magic damage from midlane/jungle, or from certain ADCs, stops being unique. Just play whoever, but build Guinsoo's to fix your comp.

It seems really unhealthy and, to be honest, a very lazy implementation of Guinsoo's. Instead of building crit and on-hit items separately, you just combined them...

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over 4 years ago - /u/AzuBK - Direct link

Originally posted by Kadexe

I'm surprised you didn't mention Yasuo/Yone, they're getting 100 magic damage per item while everyone else gets only 40. It's laughably strong on him, that's more than a level 18 Wit's End.

This is a bug, it's fixed as of next build.

over 4 years ago - /u/AzuBK - Direct link

Originally posted by AssociatePlayful8488

riot themselves said they dont balance around pbe, its 100% coming live, and maybe then, changed

We don't balance based on winrate data from the PBE, because it's pretty much incomprehensible. We do balance things while they are on the PBE. There's a big difference here.

over 4 years ago - /u/AzuBK - Direct link

Originally posted by bad-acid

Thank you for the clarification and that makes perfect sense. What other metrics do you use to balance from the PBE in the context of items?

Item power can be a bit tricky, data-wise, even without the critically low quality of PBE games confounding things. In this case, we're focusing first on clear outliers: the sort that can be identified without objective. Like, if you see a scenario in-game occur that is breaking down gameplay or clearly invalidating core League skill-tests, that's on the table for either tuning or mechanics work, whatever will resolve the issue. Or, if an item or build path or class isn't living up to its fantasy, that's also something we look for opportunities to resolve. In terms of things we can't get internally and need the PBE for, this is an opportunity for us to gather feedback from the community, including players who are just reading the items or are trying them themselves on the PBE, more than it is to gather objective gameplay data from PBE games.

over 4 years ago - /u/AzuBK - Direct link

Originally posted by Kadexe

I think the bug was that crit chance wasn't capping at 100%, so the on-hit damage was able to go beyond 200.

Bingo. Critical strike chance is implicitly capped at 100%. This is not Yasuo/Yone- or Guinsoo's-specific.

over 4 years ago - /u/AzuBK - Direct link

Originally posted by IAmTheRook_

Is Eclipse already on your guys' radar for a nerf? It feels like buying anything else on assassins is just trolling because of how strong it is

Yep

over 4 years ago - /u/AzuBK - Direct link

Originally posted by VinnyLux

I agree with the fact that crit can't go past 100% and it makes sense, it should be fixed for anyone that breaks that. However, the problem mentioned happens without breaking the cap at all. What was called a bug originally was the "Yasuo/Yone can build a single crit item and because of their passive actually giving them 50% crit, then Rageblade was giving on-hit damage accordingly". That happens without breaking the cap, and without any other mention that "Yasuo/Yone/(Trynda?) shouldn't get free on-hit from rageblade as well". I would suggest Rageblade tip stated that the on-hit was based on crit chance from items, because if it doesn't, there's no reason it shouldn't work like it's working now (Of course that breaks when champs get past 100% crit, which like you said and I guess the rioter meant, is indeed a bug)

I guess you are gonna not see my response again, but you responded to the original comment which said that Yasuo and Yone were getting free on-hit because of their passive and called it a bug. I understand the breaking 100% crit is a bug, like I said in what I'm quoting. But Yasuo and Yone benefitting from a single Rageblade like having 50% chance instead of the 20% from the item is how the wording is supposed to be intended, and you called it a bug. Again, I totally understand nerfing it because it makes no sense, but it isn't a bug, and the item should be adressed to note that it doesn't include crit from champs (Like my own quotation, I assume Trynda is having that "bug" as well)

Pardon me if I misunderstand. Yasuo and Yone are breaking the 100% crit cap, which is impossible for other champions not named Tryndamere (who is also implicated here). Crit from champions is intentionally included in Rageblade's calculation, just not above 100%. This could change, pending balance, but would be tooltipped accurately if so (like, "Critical Strike Chance from items").