Riot Scruffy Tweeted the upcoming changes for patch 10.7.
Patch Preview for 10.7 balance targets. Specific changelists should be previewed tomorrow.
Conditioning Rune Nerf
Phase Rush Buff for melee
Wukong
Nocturne (mid)
Garen
Nasus
Galio
Riven
Ivern
Akali
Kai'Sa
Corki
Xin Zhao
and u/Ovedius is probably crying over the mid Nocturne nerfs
a soul for a soul
Correct.
That was fast, were you stalking this thread?
No I'm just lying awake in bed thinking about how I can't play league anymore because I have no champs left.
Also, for some reason I get notifications.
What's with the conditioning rune being nerfed?
It stands clearly above all other runes in winrate
In 10.6 for example, its at 52% (the next closest runes are Approach Velocity at 51.3%, Guardian at 51.1%, and Glacial at 50.9%). Keep in mind further that two of those are keystones, and therefore are supposed to be more powerful and can influence winrate more with smaller tuning issues - so you can imagine how powerful conditioning must be. I expect we might need to go harder on it later.
So... honest question here, they're nerfing Nocturne (Mid) and Garen, which I'm OK with, but why are assassins (recently at least) kind of immune to nerfs?
I know people in here preach that Katarina is "an actual trash Champion" but her stats are almost the same as Nocturne's but with higher Pickrate and even Banrate yet Nocturne is getting nerfed before her?
Are they still trying to cash on the recent Kat skin or what?
kat and talon were debated for nerf, but we decided not to as they were both just under the line. That may literally change by tomorrow as more data comes in.
edit: Since i'm not going to reply to everyone - I'm not sure why people think fizz diana kass or ekko are skirting the line. those champs all have winrates that range from at most ~52%, down to sub 49% and below (Diana jungle in plat+ is 46.6%) spread over elo and role. Usually around 50-51%.
Kai'Sa buffs
I kind of knew this was coming since even after the Aphelios/Senna nerfs, and the changes in 10.5 Kai'Sa's winrate and pick rate have stayed around the same, but I'm starting to think that this is a really bad idea. I don't have the data you do /u/RiotAugust (at least, I'm pretty sure you're the one working on these right now), but I can still contribute my perspective.
Why is Kai'Sa at sub 47% winrate right now in Plat+, and why has she been like that the last few patches?
Indirect nerfs, botlane power creep, and a suboptimal meta. By this I mean a few things:
- Stormrazor nerfs, Rageblade nerfs (this was a while ago), and ranged champions being adjusted to do less damage to turret plates.
- The existence of Aphelios (who literally has a gun for every situation, 200 years) and Senna (who gets to be a support and ADC at the same time with no reprocussions, 200 years). Seriously, these two give Kai'Sa a run for her money when it comes to the term 'overloaded' and trade mobility for obnoxious sustain, range, and CC - all of which are far more useful to a team even when they're behind.
- Suboptimal meta. Contrary to popular belief, Kai'Sa doesn't have the easiest time versus tanks (at least not since the various nerfs AP Kai'Sa recieved post 8.11), and not being able to properly itemize Grevious Wounds since you're almost always going to go Rageblade only makes the situation even worse. Kai'Sa thrives in a meta where she can win any duel on the map, and this isn't that meta (especially w/ the brusier buffs).
Now of course, even with all of these in mind Kai'Sa is still doing fine, and you have to remember that she's an extremely popular ADC with an above average skill ceiling. However, it's exactly because of this that I'm so afraid of Riot giving her any more buffs - Kai'Sa is already doing OK, and she's even been able to start popping up in pro play again because of the Senna/Aphel nerfs turning them down a notch. The moment the meta shifts in her favor or she recieves an indirect buff she WILL take the front stage again with a buff, and I'm not sure that's what anyone wants considering Kai'Sa has been dominating pro play for the last two years (not to mention that I know several people complain about her burst/mobility and think that she's unhealthy game design in general).
If you really want to buff Kai'Sa, my opinion is that the best way to do it is through maintaining her three core weaknesses (laning, evolve access, and evolve tradeoffs) while giving her slightly more power either in the late game through her passive or through some additional attack speed per level. Also, please for the love of god round her base mana up to 345 - As someone with OCD, this hurts to look at.
August's argument is that there are now multiple marksmen that can range abuse her in lane (Senna and Aphelios being two new ones, next to Cait). I think it's reasonable to give her a fair shake given that reality - even as we slowly nerf Senna and Aphelios down as players catch up to their mastery curves.
So I imagine you've already thought about this (you as in you and the team over at Riot) but why not try to buff the other two there (second wind and bone plating is it?) I mean, second wind is more or less ONLY useful in lanes where you are going to get poked a lot, like melee vs ranged in top or mid, and bone plating is the thing you take as all-in support or champs in bot. I mean, conditioning has always just seemed like the "I don't have anything better to choose and I can survive early game, so lets just take it for some better scaling" like in the jungle etc.
they are both fine runes
So... honest question here, they're nerfing Nocturne (Mid) and Garen, which I'm OK with, but why are assassins (recently at least) kind of immune to nerfs?
I know people in here preach that Katarina is "an actual trash Champion" but her stats are almost the same as Nocturne's but with higher Pickrate and even Banrate yet Nocturne is getting nerfed before her?
Are they still trying to cash on the recent Kat skin or what?
Kata is like Riven, their dedicated players are used to her being a 1v9 murder machine and she's trash if she's ever any worse than that
Wait that's not really your logic right? Keystones don't automatically have a higher win-rate because of the opportunity cost of missing out on other keystones. You can take conditioning and still take a keystone. You can't take Guardian and still take another keystone.
i think you misread
Keep in mind further that two of those are keystones, and therefore are supposed to be more powerful and can influence winrate more with smaller tuning issues
Explain to me why this is relevant. It doesn't matter that Keystones have a larger power budget when everyone has to take keystones. Keystones are only relevant in power to each other because of this. Not saying Conditioning isn't strong, but I don't think it's power can even be compared to Keystones.
something with a larger power budget can affect winrate more (and more easily). A rune that does literally nothing would have a significantly lower winrate if it was a keystone than if it was a minor rune since it's competitors are relatively more important (you gave up more when you picked the do nothing keystone than when you picked the do nothing minor rune). This works in the opposite direction as well - a keystone that is twice the power of other keystones will have a larger impact on winrate than a minor rune that is twice the power of other minor runes - since keystones are just more significant in general. Therefore, for a rune that's competitors are all relatively low power (minor runes), having a significant winrate increase compared to literally every other minor rune indicates a large amount of relative power difference
Wait, do you not even check if perhaps the champions more likely to use Conditioning may perhaps also be more likely to have slightly higher win rates (perhaps due to being tanks that tend to be much easier, and as a result have higher win rates, than other champs picking Conditioning)?
no absolutely never check that, champs don't even exist in league what are you talking about
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