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/u/RiotJag tweeted:

For the 11.11 patch, Summoner's Rift Team is working on moving Support Senna's Mythic builds away from Frostfire Gauntlet into more on-fantasy items (like potentially Lethality or AP). If you have thoughts, you can hit up @TheTruexy (/u/TheTruexy on Reddit) - and as always, be respectful, please.

We're also looking at making more competitive options for top lane tanks' second item beyond Thornmail - mostly looking at Warden's Mail/Frozen Heart and Warmog's here.

As always, we can't promise anything will ship, but happy to hear feedback.

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almost 3 years ago - /u/RiotRayYonggi - Direct link

Originally posted by mublacksmith

Nerf Senna and especially this brainless tank build that is a result of how broken her support item is, she gets more gold than enemy adc without csing lmao

Support items give 1000 gold total, and if you literally did it as fast as you can from lane start (2 minutes), it would take you until 10 minutes to get 1000 gold. For reference, last-hitting 80% of minions until 10 minutes is 1600 gold from just farm alone. Not to mention the support item goes from (max) 132 gold/min to 18 gold/min immediately following 1000 gold received.

Senna souls grant you around 32 gold/min (of course not counting the stats), so in total Senna gains up to ~164 gold/min until 10 minutes then ~50 gold/min every minute after, while players that farm decently (80%) get 200 gold/min for the entire game.

So while you might end up with more gold than a marksman that isn't farming well at all, it's not actually true that you get more gold by not farming.

almost 3 years ago - /u/RiotRayYonggi - Direct link

Originally posted by [deleted]

[deleted]

Stats from souls are interesting because they are meant to actively off-set the stats other champs get ambiently. In that calculation above I did not count the stats, but I can below:

Comparing Senna to her closest neighbor (Caitlyn), Senna starts with 50 AD and gets 0 every level after. But, her souls grant her .75 AD each. Caitlyn on the other hand starts with 62 AD and gets 4 every level after. Doing napkin math, for Senna to match Caitlyn's natural (free) AD at level 18, Senna would need 100 souls.

Secondly, Senna faces some large disadvantages that actually make AD worse on her. First, she has a low AS ratio (.3), which means she gets less multiplicative DPS value from attack speed than other marksmen. Also, she has an increased auto attack wind-up (twice that of Caitlyn), so her attacks come out slower. These two factors make her DPS-per-AD lower than her peers in the role.

Lastly, Senna is completely lacking marksman steroids in the traditional sense. She has no attack speed steroids, AD steroids, or crit steroids like her peers that make AD actually worth buying. Those tools in champions kits (like Ashe Q, Xayah W, Vayne R) make them better than just an ADC Annie. Senna is notably worse in this department, with her only reasons for AD being good being the ratios on her abilities. Senna even does less damage with her crits than her peers.

With that said, Senna's advantage is her range, which at 100 souls matches (and then exceeds) the other highest marksmen in Jinx, Kog'Maw, and Tristana.

Hopefully this paints a picture as to why even though she might have access to more stats than other marksmen organically, they are not exactly created equal.

almost 3 years ago - /u/RiotRayYonggi - Direct link

Originally posted by [deleted]

[deleted]

That wasn't what they actually said, but I did include some context on that below

almost 3 years ago - /u/RiotRayYonggi - Direct link

Originally posted by [deleted]

[deleted]

That's true. As mentioned on the other post, adding the gold/min from the "value" of the stats on the souls does place it decently higher, but in comparison to other marksmens base stats+growth it's not an abnormal amount.

almost 3 years ago - /u/RiotRayYonggi - Direct link

Originally posted by Boomslangyo

Do you consider Range an AD Steroid ala Kog'Maw W? (Granted that also grants on hit damage so it is not a 1:1 comparison.)
Her base range basically matches Caitlyn and her Reach with Q is about double the range of any other ADC. Caitlyn is already a frustrating champion to play against from beh ind due to her range and zone control, and she doesn't have the shroud, hard CC, or slow from Glacial Augment to keep you at bay.

Yeah I do. It's worth noting that Kog'Maw also gets 100% uptime attack speed on his Q and Caitlyn gets a ad/crit steroid on her headshot that both increase their dps from AD.

But to your original point, range is a steroid in a more theoretical sense. With more range you're likely to get more autos off from safer positions, which can sometimes manifest in higher DPS (less time not in range of targets), but sometimes doesn't contribute as many additional autos as just raw attack speed does (or as much additional damage as just more raw AD/Crits).