devtrackers.gg
Anyone else getting an "Error 404" when trying to open the URL?
Or just me :)?
Anyone else getting an "Error 404" when trying to open the URL?
Or just me :)?
Hey! Not sure why. Raised it to the team.
Edit: The web team is aware. Working on a fix. Sorry everyone!
Edit 2: We fixed bb!
But the team needed to make sure that players would be fawnd of Lillia as a shy dan-deer-e.
Goddamned weebs. Anyway, this is all interesting from a development/background standpoint, but from the champion insights blog I kinda wanted more context on her abilities. Why is she a damage champion with almost no utility outside her R? Why make her melee? What is she supposed to build? What makes her a jungler and not a mid or top? How is the dream concept communicated outside of her R having a sleep? Are there no concerns about the visual and thematic overlap with Neeko? They probably would never answer this one, but any thoughts about the fawn centaur girls in competing MOBAs?
Don't get me wrong, dev insights are always welcome, but this just seemed to answer questions nobody was asking. Mildly disappointed that the concepts they hinted at in the roadmap didn't pan out, either.
Hello. It me. The writer of this post.
Goddamned weebs.
I had to do it. I don't even like anime. But onto your more serious notes.
The feedback about wanting more ability insight is great, and I'll 100% consider that moving forward on these. I think, as a writer, I naturally tend to gravitate towards the narrative end because it's my craft as well.
I'm not sure I'll ever choose to dig into the items because that can change patch-to-patch, and I actually don't get to play the champions before anyone else. I'm also smooth brain gold, so don't listen to me.
Riot Maxw3ll's intention with her lower range AA is to not have her auto. Weaving her Q with her other abilities is supposedly the best way to play her. He wanted to give her a sort of run-in-and-out playstyle.
Regarding Neeko, yes and no? Lillia fits into a unique slot. While I can personally see some similarities (I even asked the team about it during the Insights meeting), I think when we're looking at who Lillia is (and at her in-game) it's clear she's her own person fawn.
Edit: Listen to /u/riotmaxw3ll. He's the designer.
But the team needed to make sure that players would be fawnd of Lillia as a shy dan-deer-e.
Goddamned weebs. Anyway, this is all interesting from a development/background standpoint, but from the champion insights blog I kinda wanted more context on her abilities. Why is she a damage champion with almost no utility outside her R? Why make her melee? What is she supposed to build? What makes her a jungler and not a mid or top? How is the dream concept communicated outside of her R having a sleep? Are there no concerns about the visual and thematic overlap with Neeko? They probably would never answer this one, but any thoughts about the fawn centaur girls in competing MOBAs?
Don't get me wrong, dev insights are always welcome, but this just seemed to answer questions nobody was asking. Mildly disappointed that the concepts they hinted at in the roadmap didn't pan out, either.
Don't get me wrong, dev insights are always welcome, but this just seemed to answer questions nobody was asking. Mildly disappointed that the concepts they hinted at in the roadmap didn't pan out, either.
Can't really answer the other ones since I'm just the game designer.
People were like "Nah don't like".
In anything.
That's kinda it, seemingly. The high concept, form-changing spirit deer girl was just not well recieved by the majority of people who got their hands on her during testing. So I guess they went simpler to focus on the shy deer-girl aspect of her.
This is it. We had players come in to test her and they weren't feeling the kit. So Riot Maxw3ll and the team took a step back and decided to narrow in the focus on the best parts of her: the sleep and single form.
I had to do it. I don't even like anime.
Don't lie to me, nobody but high-level weebs know what "dandere" means. Anyway, as a fellow gold smoothbrain, thanks for the response.
Riot Maxw3ll's intention with her lower range AA is to not have her auto. Weaving her Q with her other abilities is supposedly the best way to play her. He wanted to give her a sort of run-in-and-out playstyle.
I can see that with the Q MS and generous range on her abilities, but that also suggests harassing top for me. I believe she was also referred to as a skirmisher in roadmaps, which I found kinda odd since she neither seems to rely on AAs nor has any defensive abilities, from what we've seen. Of course not every champion has to fit in a nice little niche, but a low-CC champion with 5 damaging abilities, melee range and magic damage is pretty novel.
Regarding Neeko, yes and no? Lillia fits into a unique slot. While I can personally see some similarities (I even asked the team about it during the Insights meeting), I think when we're looking at who Lillia is (and at her in-game) it's clear she's her own person fawn.
I think some of the dismay comes from her face and hair specifically -- her hair color and ears just make her a dead ringer for Neeko. Can't help but feel that a different hairstyle or color might have helped to differentiate them more. They even both have the flower thing going on.
Thanks again for the answers!
/u/riotmaxw3ll commented below me and can definitely answer gameplay questions better than I can.
Lillia actually has some salt for Neeko's flower in-game. ;)
Her lore says she goes around putting people to sleep and harvesting their dreams. Ik that that's intended to sound peaceful-ish since she looks to be a more or less nice character but it 100% sounds like she running around runeterra on a killing spree.
I flip-flopped on whether or not I could use "put them to sleep" because of the connotation of her actually killing people. She just wants to give them a good ol' nappy nap.
Then one of the testers, Gabriel, drew this picture, and we used it as her loading screen splash art for a while...
Can that please just be her official loading screen splash, thanks
To do this, Riot Dummerwitz utilized emotionally confusing source material with distant positioning in Lillia’s sound effects. When she swings her staff you can hear laughter and crying, but far-off in some intangible location. It’s distant, surreal, and neither good or bad.
Riot's entire sound design team smurfing again I see
Riot Dummerwitz is a f*cking wizard.
Is Lillia's mother tree different from the God-Willow? Seems like it, since they didn't mention the tree Ivern cut down by name, but it seems a little ambiguous. Would make a big difference in the interactions between Ivern and Lillia if he was the one who killed her tree.
hey! quick question. is the champion team still looking to make complex champions? after aphelios its back to back simpler kits.
Our goal is to release a range of difficulties for sure. Lillia's abilities are pretty simple, but you have to play a very tight game in order to get your damage done and not die yourself. She's pretty squishy compared to other close range junglers, so she really needs to use her movespeed to dodge skill shots and get in Q range to do her thing.
i'm disappointed that the dual form fantasy was scrapped, but i get that there's enough transform champs in the game and making her change forms on a timer instead of making it her ult like most other champs would have felt like you had no control over her kit. and she's definitely cute, no question there.
i guess my only gripe is that her gameplay doesn't seem to leave much to do other than run in and do a bunch of damage with an occasional long range slow and a lack of hard cc until 6. if i wanted to do all of that and live to talk about it in this high damage meta, i'd just play mundo and not care about hard cc. she's definitely a jungle champ with how much aoe there is in her kit, but the lack of inherent sustain worries me a bit. i guess i'll have to get my hands on her first.
She had sustain on her kit for the longest time (The passive healed over time as it dealt damage), but as our playtest team got better and better at her, it became more and more egregious. The value we landed on was that Ravenous Hunter was the correct amount of sustain for the character, so there wasn't really room for it. She's a hard champion to play correctly. A lot of your defense comes from dodging skill shots.
What do her gank patterns look like? As far as I can tell she doesn't have good ganks Pre 6, and after 6 she still needs to land her E or else she needs to rely on overextending.
Pre 6 her ganks aren't great. She's super squishy and has to play like the shy fawn she is. Her goal is to use her movespeed and good clear to get a farm lead, hit 6, then ult the lanes on cooldown. her movement speed stacks on each ability hit, so she can build up a good chunk of speed on scuttle and take that speed into the lane.
i get that, and talisman tends to give a lot of sustain for aoe champs, but i don't like the idea of a sustain rune being entirely necessary for a champ to succeed in the jungle. what if she wanted to go ult hunter?
and dodging skillshots is a big part of the defense of every champ, but other champs have dashes or conditional movement speed, hers seems reliant on landing one of the shortest range abilities in her kit. you'd want to have that move speed to dodge a reactionary skillshot, not a retaliatory one.
she has a ton more MS than the average champion. She gains the speed on any ability hit (not just Q), gains it on hitting anything (even jungle camps), and the speed stacks. So when she's in combat, she fast.
I hear you about the rune. I was very sad to see it go, but League is a complex game with tons of nuance. We have to balance Lillia around what we expect her best runes to be. The cost of opening up other builds in this case was also going to allow her to have so much healing that she could never really die.
How long is the cooldown on her ultimate?
130 at first rank. Its a really easy set up on any pushed lane w a ton of CC on it, and especially in bot lane can lead to double kills if they aren't being respectful.
rip nocturne
So that was part of the reason the team went with the dreams thematic. You see, League's already got the literal embodiment of nightmares (woops, wrong link lol). So it wouldn't feel right to have Lillia be nightmares and dreams.
If thats not her splash art next April fools day I don't actually have anything impactful I'll do but probably just be kinda sad
I've got a lot of April Fools thoughts. Don't worry.
She builds Runic > Liandries basically every game. Then its AP/defensive items usually. Most commonly Hourglass > Deadman's >Visage
I'm loving everything about this champion the only thing I dislike so far is the items you are suggesting after Hourglass. Building Tank with no Deathcap or Void Staff doesn't sound fun at all. Is it because her AP ratios are low?
Its mostly because her defenses don't scale well with the rest of the damage in the game. She hits a really strong mid game spike and needs to carry that through to close out the game, so mostly in late game fights liandries + passive + dark harvest do enough damage that you really just want to stay alive longer.
hmm since her playstyle is hit and run kite for days, is her q spammable like heca q?
not quite that low, but low. 4s CD
Sry so let's say she's similar to AP Shyv maybe.
Like farming till ultimate and edging the fight constantly while getting in melee only for the killing blow?
that description is pretty good.
Rylai’s ever come in or are more defensive options better?
It can for sure, but usually you're so much faster than them baseline that the extra slow is unnecessary.
Nothing talks about the weird decision on the voice being scottish. u/Cashmiir any insight?
/u/interlocutioner should be able to help!
I was thinking this too. They mention how she starts shy (weak) and then gets brave (stronger) but nowhere in her kit does it show that. If they just mean that she starts at level 1 and then gets stronger because of leveling up to 18 then oof.
Maybe I didn't do a great job explaining this part: So her kit is sort of a metaphor for her gaining confidence. She starts out shy and weak, and has to run away from you (which she can do with the movement speed stacks), but as she gets stronger (items), she grows confidence (move speed) and flourishes (lol I stronk now bb). She scales really well into the late game, and prances along the rift, slapping you with her spells and putting you to sleep.
She sounds really suseptible to invades. Does the movespeed boost help her escape more mobile and vicious jinglers like Lee, Elise, Rengar and Nidalee?
Yeah, if you have some stacks and aren't hurting too bad you can get away. Its obviously still not great, you have to concede the camps.
Is her E infinite range until it hits something?
Yeah, but terrain counts. So its really hard to get to get the long range ones off except in specific angles.
she has a ton more MS than the average champion. She gains the speed on any ability hit (not just Q), gains it on hitting anything (even jungle camps), and the speed stacks. So when she's in combat, she fast.
Oooh so that is the playstyle. That does seem interesting. Why isnt MS the main passive, and damage passive tied to an ability? The MS now gets overlooked. Would also allow her to scale over the entire game, matching gained MS of others in game from dead man or Zeal items. Especially given she already has damage on all her abilities, so her damage scales through entire game and the passive is %max HP.
The movement speed scales with Q rank so she hits a more powerful midgame spike.
Gonna take conq on her
She's classified as a ranged champion, so it isn't the greatest. We like Dark Harvest.
She builds Runic > Liandries basically every game.
Not for me she wont, im going to first buy Nashor's for the first 5 games i play with her for no reason
Godspeed.
And when it was over she had blossomed into something we didn’t quite expect: the bravest champion we’ve made,
This is Poppy Erasure
Aligned
Is it like rakan range or more like syndra?
More Rakan
Any worries she'll creep into midlane? Seems like she could be a pretty oppressive roamer post-6 if scuttle is up
Her roams are probably pretty good, but her range profile and low defenses means she gets bullied really hard
I mean, it's an interesting choice, but Scottish accents don't exactly give me ancient and strange vibes. It just kinda felt slapped on since it's just not an accent we have used yet and it's one that is much more familiar to most people. I wouldn't be opposed to it if the design of the champion hinted some more similarities to Scottish culture, but it was just very jarring when hearing the voice for the first time.
Bonus scottish lillia edit lol https://imgur.com/a/K4OHphk
When I first heard Lillia the only thing I thought of was this and I definitely sent it to Interlocutioner.
so they are waking up again or sleeping forever so that their dreams can forever be harvested by her mother tree? Because that's how it kinda sounded to me...
They wake up! Dreams used to go to the mother tree whenever anyone slept. Lillia just wants to save her mom.
Super stoked about this champ! I just hope that the people complaining in here don't get you guys too down about what I'm thinking will be an awesome addition to League's champion lineup.
I think people are averse to change. Myself too. I hate change. I think Lillia is unique and beautiful, and that the team did such an incredible job creating her. And in a few months people will be fine with it.
Glad you're excited!
Language!
Ok I also got a much darker impression. Nice to know
I mean, she's going to kill you in League. That's just a given.
'lulling people to their dreams' would be equally creepy so i dont think you can do much better
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
You haven't seen the people I play with, they will challenge that statement
I'm in the depths of Gold 4 hell. I know all about bad junglers...
Accidental serial killer is way more intersting an idea to me.
Lmao I'm going to pitch it. Some clumsy-ass champion who just accidentally kills people. I love it. That's my new main.
4s rank 1 cd, right?
All ranks.
How do you guys feel about her being played top?
I don't like jungle but I've been waiting a faun character forever and I'm not gonna let anything stop me but I'm wondering if it was discussed or tested or anything.
We tested it for sure. I think it’ll be a fine off role for her. She can clear waves pretty safely, but she’ll need to find a way to translate that into a snowball
Implying that phase rush isn't optimal so you can reach "I can't control my character anymore" speeds
Being ‘too fast’ came up a lot in testing.
Don't you think she looks a lot like Neeko?
I can see it in the splash, and I actually asked about it when I talked to the team. But I think in-game and when you incorporate all of her together as a whole package, not really, no.
I think if you were to remove/reword the "mommy dearest" just after it says she can harvest their dreams it'd come off more innocent; as it is now I think it draws unintentional allusions to the film about Joan Crawford or Norman Bates' complex regarding his mother.
Ooooh that's good feedback! I didn't think about that!
