Original Post — Direct link

Ive read some opinions claiming that the patch wont change anything and this is nonsense, let me tell you why.

Scenario 1: The midlane matchup is talon against lux, they are both lvl 6 and both have some tiny first items. Talon has 2 longswords and a dblade, lux has dring, cloth armor and the 435 gold book.

This gives Lux 58 Armor + 1070 hp currently and 65,2 armor + 1224 hp on patch 12.10. Talon has 117 Ad and no armor pen yet.

Currently: Talon jumps her hits everything + autohit and deals 1345 dmg in total, resulting in 851 dmg post armor. Leaving her at 219 hp, he dealt 89% of her hp in damage.

patch 12.10: Talon jumps her hits everything + autohit and deals 1345 dmg in total, resulting in 814 dmg post armor. Leaving her at 410 hp, he dealt 72% of her hp in damage.

Lux will survive with nearly twice the hp left.

Scenario 2: The midlane matchup is talon against lux, they are both lvl 11 and have finished their mythic and a serrated dirk for talon and armguard (fully stacked) for lux.

This gives Lux 93 Armor (effectively 69) + 1495 hp currently and 106,2 (effectively 83) armor + 1719 hp on patch 12.10. Talon has 195 ad and 28 lethality, which i factored in.

Currently: Talon jumps her hits everything + autohit and deals 2254 dmg in total, resulting in 1331 dmg post armor. Leaving her at 164 hp, he dealt 80% of her hp in damage.

patch 12.10: Talon jumps her hits everything + autohit and deals 2254 dmg in total, resulting in 1235 dmg post armor. Leaving her at 485 hp, he dealt 67% of her hp in damage.

Lux will survive with nearly 3 times the hp left.

Scenario 3: The midlane matchup is talon against lux, they are both lvl 16 and have finished their mythic and two other items. Lux has zhonyas and shadowflame, Talon has ghostblade and seryldas.

This gives Lux 128 armor (effectively 58) + 2120 hp currently and 147 (effectively 70) armor + 2414 hp on patch 12.10. Talon has 282 ad, 36 lethality and 38% armor pen, which i factored in.

Currently: Talon jumps her hits everything + autohit and deals 2987 dmg in total, resulting in 1890 dmg post armor. Leaving her at 230 hp, he dealt 89% of her hp in damage.

patch 12.10: Talon jumps her hits everything + autohit and deals 2987 dmg in total, resulting in 1758 dmg post armor. Leaving her at 656 hp, he dealt 73% of her hp in damage.

Lux will survive with nearly 3 times the hp left.

If my calculations are correct, or atleast not too far off, then the patch results in a ~15% damage decrease, which results in big differences when it comes down to absolute values.

Edit: I believe i forgot to calculate for the %armor pen nerfes, so lvl 16 talon should deal a little less damage then i calculated. Nonetheless, my point still stands.

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over 2 years ago - /u/TheTruexy - Direct link

Our goal is that it's somewhere between a 10-20% decrease in damage depending on game-time/class/items.

There's a lot of nuance to why the durability package is HP early and scales more into defense later (anti-burst vs durability). Hopefully we can go over the process in more detail later.

It's going to be noticeably different for your first few games and you are likely to lose a few kills with your damage expectations being off. But it should still be the League of Legends that you know and love.

over 2 years ago - /u/TheTruexy - Direct link

Originally posted by bz6

Surface level I am not going to lie, I thought this method lacked a lot of nuance and was pretty band-aid. My vision for damage reduction always revolved around a more systemic lens. Think a complete audit of champion kits, items, and runes. But when you expanded on the stat package angle, it became clear that base stats yielded control. And that control will be essential for follow-up work that will be needed whether in the form of champion specific changes or systematic changes; since base stats mesh well with the systems around the game.

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt. You nailed it. Base stats let us have the granularity we want WITHOUT precluding any follow-up work. We can adjust base stats per class, fine-tune the the existing numbers, and anything in between. Furthermore, we CAN still work on systemic damage if we think it's still out of line (not saying we're planning to as of yet). This is what we believe the most effective but least disruptive (to the balance of gold/items/runes) method for the project.

over 2 years ago - /u/TheTruexy - Direct link

Originally posted by FBG_Ikaros

Can you give me a reason to pick for example LeBlanc after that patch? She is already struggling, these changes will just kill her and many other champions.

Like if you arent picking Viktor, Corki, Taliyah, Veigar etc. next patch you are basically just griefing your team.

Sure, here's what LB provides. LeBlanc SHOULD provide a higher target access and higher kill thresholds than the DPS mages.

If she doesn't fill this niche and suffers, we'll quickly follow-up (we have changes scheduled even before the standard 2 week wait). This might mean even buffing burst on some champions.

The goal of the changes in a more defined sense (this is why we're open to buffing some burst damage back if champs suffer) - Champions that don't build burst are bursting champions too fast (i.e. Goredrinker assassins killing you in 0.1s or tanks killing you with 1 rotation) - Some burst systems lose their counterplay a bit too early (champs killing you from 100-0 before their first Mythic)

over 2 years ago - /u/TheTruexy - Direct link

Originally posted by Umiak01

There is 2 things I wonder :

1- do you intend to preventively nerf some dmg type, mostly True dmg and %HP ?

Like imo Kraken, Vayne, Fiora, Kai'sa Passive proc , PTA , Botrk and such should get a slight nerf before the update hit or they will have a high chance of being " problematic" in a way.

2- Is there any chance items dmg ( and Keystones ) get lowered as a whole someday ?

Additional thing : possible to rework how Mythic passive work ? instead of giving stats that are more or less useful make it like Moostone/Solari passive.

Ex for Liandry : Legendary items give +0.2% max HP Torment dmg or reduce the HP threshold for Agony or increase %dmg gain of Agony etc

True damage (and definitely % max HP true damage) is likely going to be more valuable after the changes.

We don't want to pre-emptively nerf a champion since we're honestly likely going to be inaccurate. What if we nerf a champion that's "fine" or don't go hard enough and have to nerf them multiple times. If champions are strong, we'll look at why they're strong (like we always try to do), and identify what we think is problematic. If Vayne and Fiora are the strongest champions, it probably makes sense to tune down their % true damage as it was likely directly what made them stronger.

And before we go "but you punished the heal/shielders!", this was (to us) a more clear outlier. Mathematically, every point of health is worth significantly more. Not adjusting the health restoration mechanics seemed clearly incorrect. A point a lot of people are missing is that the effective HP is staying about the same, AND enchanters/drain tanks are staying alive longer to get more rotations off (that Lulu is now much harder to kill and their shields are stronger).

over 2 years ago - /u/RiotRayYonggi - Direct link

Total effective HP is up somewhere between 15-30% for all targets, meaning that being bursted from full is much less likely (but still very possible). My findings is that the game still "feels" like league, and you may go entire games without noticing any differences, but there are very common occurances where targets survive skirmishes/all-ins with 5-15% HP remaining which can be attributed to the durability update.

over 2 years ago - /u/TheTruexy - Direct link

Originally posted by thundercthor

I don't understand the reasoning, it's pretty clear cut vayne benefits from these changes more than any other characters

Preemptively nerfing sunfire, but not divine sunderer (Damage), vayne and fiora?

Why is it bad if these champions arrive in a slightly weak state vs being blanantly OP, Vayne, Fiora are already in a strong state, this patch is clearly going to make them stronger, you would rather have them have the chance to be over the top OP then be slightly weak? One issue is game ruining experience, the other is they will be picked less and be more situational?

W/e the case is I'm banning fiora, asking team to ban vayne if they don't plan on playing, and dodging if enemy locks vayne. I guess I'll probably only play decay games and get a 24 hour dodge timer with how high prevalence vayne will be.

Is it pretty clear cut that Vayne will be above the others? Is Vayne going to be stronger than Ornn? Or Lulu? Or Aurelion Sol?

If we nerf the top end, that also means there will be new OP champs, and it's a very easy rabbit hole to go down that can easily turn very speculative.