Original Post — Direct link
almost 4 years ago - /u/Dovagedys - Direct link

Originally posted by swimstrim

TL;DR

Riot's response yesterday was mostly focused on Azir Irelia having a surprisingly low winrate, and mentioning that they might not nerf it in 2 weeks because of that. My main point here is that this winrate-heavy perspective sort of concerns me, because overpowered and oppressive are two very different things, and a lot of the more "oppressive" decks in the game have actually exhibited the same exact winrate. TF Go Hard was also a ~52% winrate deck that stopped people from being able to play a lot of types of decks on ladder. In fact, in TF Go Hard we saw the same EXACT pattern, which was a winrate trending slowly down over time. The reason for this was the meta was being warped around the deck to the point where TF Go Hard was killing off its own favorable matchups, and I think that's the exact pattern we're seeing with Azir Irelia.

TL;DR TL;DR

The bigger problem is that Azir Irelia is limiting the viability of a lot of decks from the game due to its polarized matchups, rather than its raw winrate.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, u/swimstrim.

It's important to note that the metrics I talked about over the weekend are not the only metrics we use and we don't only use metrics to make decisions. I focused on win rate, because the community has been focused on it and my intention was to keep the conversation focused on what I had been seeing a lot from the community.

You are right to call out that decks crowding out other decks is an important factor that we consider when discussing live updates. We also strongly consider how fun a deck is to play against or lose against. However, it takes more time to learn if and how new cards are impacting the meta on some of the axis. I think it's important to gather as much information as we can before making decisions that could significantly impact new mechanics. We only have two weeks of data so far and in my opinion there is no clear signal that indicates Irelia + Azir are "oppressive."

Quick side note - I think our community dramatically over uses the word oppressive to describe something they don't personally like. When I think of actually oppressive I think about examples in MTG like Caw Blade or Eldrazi Winter. Those metagames where 70% of players were playing the decks and top 8s and top 16s were regularly 80-90% populated by those decks.

To me, those examples are actually oppressing their respective metagames and right now Irelia and Azir Blade Dance is no where close to that level. I know that 20% metashare is high relative to LOR's healthy metagame history and if we see this trend continue for a long period, then we will act. But it has only been two weeks.

One final note, I want to make it clear that the data I shared for win rates of decks/champs on Sunday was only constructed and platinum plus rankings.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. As always, I enjoyed it. <3