[2019] Forum rework!!!!!1!!

I HAVE SOME VERY EXCITING NEWS TO SHARE WITH EVERYONE!

It is time for something that people have been asking for, for a while... A forum rework! Woo! The forums you know and love are about to be streamlined, more organized, and easier to use. It's all very exciting!

I wanted to give you a heads up about what is leaving:

1. Post count- There just isn't a real need for it. Your opinions are valid whether you have 2 posts, or 2,000.
2. Badges (like Lead by Example)- These haven't been available for a while, so we're wrapping it up.
3. The closed beta forums- All of the information stored there is very, very outdated. This information will still exist, just not publicly visible.
4. We're trimming down the amount of boards- We have a LOT of discussion boards, and most of them aren't used regularly. We're keeping General Discussion and Strategy... The rest are leaving. So for example, if you'd like to make a post about lore, feel free to post it on the General Discussion! If you'd like to talk about how much you hate Blue, please use the strategy board. We are keeping/creating:

Now for how (some) boards are changing:

1. Player support- This board was where we used to track bugs back in the day, but we now have a much better system that our support team and devs use. This board will now be used for Frequently Asked Questions posts, issues that we are seeing, troubleshooting guides, etc. It is becoming a resource board instead of a discussion board.
2. News and Announcements- This is still your go-to place for news (and announcements), but Patch Notes are leaving.
3. Patch Notes- All patch notes will be posted here! Much organization, such wow.

This also includes a visual rework and neat features like being able to sort posts by last post date/create date/reply count/title/view count. View count will also be a thing as well! You should still be able to access content that already exists on the boards when the switch is made (except for closed beta boards), and since we have to manually move over threads, things like Patch Notes won't look pretty at first. It is what it is. We're going to move things as fast as we can, though!

I'm going to open this thread up for suggestions and feedback... But I'd like to start out the feedback thread with these notes:

• Private messaging between other members is not a feature that we are going to add.
• We are not making a separate board for discussing the shuffler and variance.
• You can still talk about your usual subjects, but now it either goes under General or Strategy. Look at it this way... There is now less chance for you to miss out on an awesome conversation now!

Ready, set, constructive feedback!

@Avatar1971:

You might consider merging the 2 feedback forums of "Arena Feedback" and "Feature Requests", I have noticed they often overlap with each other where the feedback wants a new feature or the new feature is really just feedback. Anyway this all sound like a really good change.

Those boards will be leaving! The only boards we're going to have (as of now) are:

• News and Announcements
• Patch Notes
• General Discussion
• Strategy
• Player Support

@Padishar:

Seems good. It has been too many subforums so far. Having only two makes perfect sense.
One thing: Can we have updated selection for avatars, maybe from Standard legal sets?

Yes! That is part of the rework. :relaxed:

@DeadlyK1tten:

Will the shuffler thread migrate?
Can we create a matchmaker perma-thread as well?

Yes, the shuffler thread will migrate! I don't think there is a real need for a matchmaker perma-thread. I'm tempted to make a "I hate ______ pls ban it" perma-thread though. :joy:

@RandyB#75193:

Glad to hear about these changes! A couple of features I would love to see:
A way to highlight text and quote just the highlighted portion.

A way to preview posts to ensure proper formatting before posting.
Appreciate that you are looking for feedback!

Hmmmm

You can tag and change the formatting via the text toolbar, to quote things like this... Is that what you mean? Or I just quote the person and then delete the text that I'm not replying to.

As for previewing a post, I can ask! I'm not sure about that one.

@Jengas:

@WotC_Lexie:

• Private messaging between other members is not a feature that we are going to add.

For now? Or is it that the infrastructure of the new forums wouldn't ever support it? Members within this forum specifically have expressed interest in playing privately with each other and the PM system would allow such arrangements without clogging additional forum space. Not to mention sometimes members are hesitant to publicly post their email address or other forms of contact just talk to someone outside this space.
Also, sometimes forum threads get deleted or locked for various reasons and a way for two people to continue the conversation without danger of continuing to violate any forum policies is to do so in private. There are many benefits for allowing private conversations through the forum infrastructure, so it would be a much appreciated feature even if it is later down the line.

Unfortunately private messaging is more often used for bad than good, so no, we won't be implementing it.

@Jengas:

@WotC_Lexie:

@Jengas:

@WotC_Lexie:

• Private messaging between other members is not a feature that we are going to add.

For now? Or is it that the infrastructure of the new forums wouldn't ever support it? Members within this forum specifically have expressed interest in playing privately with each other and the PM system would allow such arrangements without clogging additional forum space. Not to mention sometimes members are hesitant to publicly post their email address or other forms of contact just talk to someone outside this space.
Also, sometimes forum threads get deleted or locked for various reasons and a way for two people to continue the conversation without danger of continuing to violate any forum policies is to do so in private. There are many benefits for allowing private conversations through the forum infrastructure, so it would be a much appreciated feature even if it is later down the line.

Unfortunately private messaging is more often used for bad than good, so no, we won't be implementing it.

Please at least consider it. I'm unaware of any problems that arose from the ability to message someone else privately since basically all platforms of social communication allow for it, and it's the least complained about feature from the likes of Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, etc., and it also allows a more focused method to report any bad behavior as you can link to specific messages and also they usually come paired with a block feature so nobody will receive a message they do not want. As I mentioned earlier, privacy is a concern members may have to posting other forms of contact information in public, so it allows this environment to be safer overall.
I understand that you basically already have a roadmap of what all will and won't be included into the new forums so even in the impossibly unlikely chance you changed your mind about this, it's probably not going to be implemented anyway. But I at least ask you keep it in mind should the opportunity come up later down the road to implement this feature. You can almost consider this a soft-launch of the friends list because that's basically what that will be in game: a means to communicate with someone in private. And surely that can't be more bad than good, otherwise the dev team wouldn't consider having it on their to-do list.

I really appreciate your feedback and positive attitude! I'll let you know if we change our mind, but as of right now, this isn't a feature we're planning on implementing.

@Chaghatai:

@WotC_Lexie:

@DeadlyK1tten:

Will the shuffler thread migrate?
Can we create a matchmaker perma-thread as well?

Yes, the shuffler thread will migrate! I don't think there is a real need for a matchmaker perma-thread. I'm tempted to make a "I hate ______ pls ban it" perma-thread though. :joy:

Can we expect these topics to be regularly consigned to the mega-threads, or will they continue to take up 50+% of the thread bandwidth?

Thanks for the feedback? It's not a big deal that people want to complain about specific cards and decks.

@PotdindyNoob#92981:

as always well done lexie

Thank you, here is a bad meme I just made in Paint

@AngelicAvenger#35444:

Are there any plans to eventually add [card] tags similar to other MTG forums so we don't either have to manually link to Gatherer or post enormous pictures when discussing specific cards?

That is a great idea! I will ask if that is possible.

@Sirius:

Hm... I find it weird to lose (almost) all the subforums.
I always like to go to the New Players forum to help new players. Now I have to search through all the threads and judge by title?
I like how you could put up a guide in the Guides subforum and it will stay visible for at least a month... as it makes sense for a guide. Now it just disappears, bascially within minutes? Why would anyone write a guide then? How would people find it?
I really like to go to Feature Requests and look at what ideas people come up with to improve the game; give them pointers if their request won't go into the game and support the ideas if I find them creative and helpful.
I rarely even open up the General Discussion forum. It's full of the same topics, 90% of the time. I don't care about reading the same thing and answering the same thing over and over. Now these will be in the same forum as the Feature Requests I like to discuss.
Same for the deck building ideas. Currently I can just open up the Deck Building forum, now I have to dig for the threads? I don't understand how this is streamlined or advantegous.
Also, I'm sure this is just an oversight.
You didn't mention the Dev Tracker board. As plain as it is in design, it is still an essential tool for the forum to work. The Dev Tracker will still be there, right?
And another thing. You say the Closed Beta forums won't be publicly visible anymore. But that isn't very clear to me. Having access to threads of the Closed Beta forums is important: For instance all of the reference about the opening hand algorithm is stored purely in Closed Beta threads. Surely this information won't be hidden away? If you have the link to a Closed Beta thread, it will still work, right? And you will still be able to locate them through the Dev Tracker? I think those are both important.
If that is not the case, please warn me. I might have to save a couple threads from the forums then before they disappear.

Basically we are slimming down the amount of boards because most of them aren't used/viewed often. There is still a dev tracker. Things like deck building can easily go under strategy, and if a player has a question about the game, there are many resources available to find answers (or they can ask in General/Strategy and get an answer almost immediately). If you want to write a guide I don't see why that couldn't go under strategy.

The closed beta forums will no longer be visible to the public via our forum (like they are at the bottom of our page now). If you have a direct link to a page, you should still be able to view it.

@AngelicAvenger#35444:

@WotC_Lexie:

That is a great idea! I will ask if that is possible.

Thanks for the reply but also, I think you might secretly be a wizard, Lexie. What is this temporal witchcraft?

I was just laughing about that. I mean, I DO work for Wizards of the Coast... Perhaps I'm an actual wizard??

@DeadlyK1tten:

@Sirius:

And another thing. You say the Closed Beta forums won't be publicly visible anymore. But that isn't very clear to me. Having access to threads of the Closed Beta forums is important: For instance all of the reference about the opening hand algorithm is stored purely in Closed Beta threads. Surely this information won't be hidden away? If you have the link to a Closed Beta thread, it will still work, right? And you will still be able to locate them through the Dev Tracker? I think those are both important.
If that is not the case, please warn me. I might have to save a couple threads from the forums then before they disappear.

+101
Plus, the "State of Beta" posts need to be archived in an easy-to-search manner. There is a ton of incorrect information being dumped on the forums about matchmaking and the shuffler, so there needs to be some way of getting the "official" statements from WotC employees.

The non-closed beta "State of the Beta" posts will still be accessible on News & Announcements, and if they were made on the closed beta forums, you should still be able to access them via direct link.

@Sirius:

Switching to suggestions:
Could we be able to apply the search function to the subforums? Currently it searches through all the forum posts, sometimes I'd just like to search the Strategy forum, or especially the Patch Notes / Dev Tracker if I'm looking for a specific statement.
Also, currently we have banner links to both the Server Status and the Bug Reports page, which is very useful. But there is a third page, the support page where you can send in tickets; I think that one could have a link in the forum somewhere as well. Maybe in the upcoming Q&A section?
And I don't know if these are already among the upcoming fixes, but using images in posts is still very awkward. When trying to rescale them, they commonly get stretched or squished, and when editing the post afterwards, they just reset to original scale.
And you're unable to select a text passage within the post you're writing and use the italic / bold etc. styles to apply them afterwards. You have to activate the styles before writing, which is sometimes inconvenient.

A subforum search function, banners that link out, and a link to the support page, etc is already in the rework.

As for images and text styles that is out of my wheel house. I can ask, I guess?

@Frankenfruity:

I assume "when visiting a thread you're taken straight to the first unread post" feature is also in the works?

No, responses are still in chronological order.

@Frankenfruity:

@WotC_Lexie:

@Frankenfruity:

I assume "when visiting a thread you're taken straight to the first unread post" feature is also in the works?

No, responses are still in chronological order.

That's not what I meant. They should be in chronological order. Forums usually don't have a problem remembering what the last post you viewed was. If you come back to a thread after some time, you're not going to remember what the last post you read was + even if you do you have to find it and that can take a while browsing through pages on longer threads.

Not sure about that, I'll look into it.

@Pimp Master J:

@WotC_Lexie:

1. Badges (like Lead by Example)- These haven't been available for a while, so we're wrapping it up.

:no_mouth: :thinking_face: :angry:

Actually don't mind losing badges, but doesn't post count help the community? Like ID'ing new posters?

While it does identify new posters, whether someone is new or not shouldn’t matter.

@Rheticus:

Hopefully, we can have an up-to-date calendar so we can always plan around upcoming events! :slightly_smiling_face:

I will pass along the feedback. :slightly_smiling_face:

@Dreadshow#60108:

@Yorik#73783:

Will the new boards still have puppets?

Yeah but you won't be able to tell which accounts are and which aren't by the posts count. Puppets will be much more integrated to the community.

Someone not agreeing with you doesn’t make them a “puppet”. Please reread rule 3 in our code of conduct.

@wujo444:

@WotC_Lexie:

I HAVE SOME VERY EXCITING NEWS TO SHARE WITH EVERYONE!
It is time for something that people have been asking for, for a while... A forum rework! (...)
Ready, set, constructive feedback!

So what you are actually saying:

• you are removing functionality,
• won't add anything,
• will stop giving us info through this channel,
• you will hide promises you didn't keep,
• and it's not official support channel anymore.

Just say it's dead and you don't want any pesky players to ask you question and make you all involved in unnecessary actions like communications with community.

We’re not removing any functionality (actually adding some), we’re not adding new boards because there is no need, you’re still getting the same information through this channel, not sure what promises you’re referring to, and it’s definitely still an official channel.

This is a rework, not a deactivation. The forums are still here. 🙂

@Dreadshow#60108:

@WotC_Lexie:

@Dreadshow#60108:

@Yorik#73783:

Will the new boards still have puppets?

Yeah but you won't be able to tell which accounts are and which aren't by the posts count. Puppets will be much more integrated to the community.

Someone not agreeing with you doesn’t make them a “puppet”. Please reread rule 3 in our code of conduct.

A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term, a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock, originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an Internet community who spoke to, or about, themselves while pretending to be another person.[1]

I am aware.

@Thyrionn:

In that case, some people need to copy/paste old important threads into the forums that will remain. For example, there is one called "features wanted" where the main desired improvements to mtga are listed.

Please don't do this. I guarantee the devs have seen it already. We already have a list of features that we're working on currently (and what will be working on next).

@Myrddrin:

@TopoftheStackMTG:

Seems cool, I’m glad the forum is getting some attention.

The "attention" it gets is a reduction of categories and the hiding of closed beta.

I don’t think either of those things are bad things. Reduction of non-popular boards means the boards that are used twice a month with few replies no longer exist, and those few posters can post in a place where their post will be discussed. If there is a need for additional boards in the future, that is something we can implement very easily

As for hiding closed beta forums, you can still access the forums if you’d like via direct link! If there is a reason why you’d like them to stay, please let me know. 🙂

@Volkbrecht#63244:

Two things:
One) while in an ideal world we should all treat each other with respect and discuss the topics at hand with a focus on the content rather than the poster, in the real world that we actually live in a system displaying success, seniority and ideally a ratio of the two (as was the old system with badges and posting counter) helps a lot in deciding if at all, and if yes, then in what tone a topic is best discussed. There are reasons why these features are so popular in other forums. Without them, I will have to look into people's posting history to figure out whether they are a newbie in serious need of help or someone who is, let's say, beyond the help a simple forum reply may give them.
Two) Having topics being "screamed into the void" in deserted subforums is not necessarily a bad thing. I do understand the reasoning behind wanting to streamline the forums. But what we will be getting now is more noise on the relevant forums. Useful discussions are more likely to drop out of view, and more people will participate in the discussions that stay up, making them more likely to dissolve into irate chains of postings that are not really leading anywhere useful (I'm looking at you, shuffler thread). The overall effect of the streamlining will be that we'll get less coherent discussions. I really hope that this effect will be counteracted by a serious overhaul of the forum graphics, so there is a chance to take in more information in one go without scrolling or switching pages (please make use of the full width of the screen, regardless of the page zoom).

Your first point: Please just treat everyone with respect. Whether someone has two posts, or seven thousand, their question and/or opinion is valid. Seniority shouldn't be a factor in whether someone is taken seriously. The Code of Conduct is mostly likely going to be pinned to the top of our two discussion boards because some people forget to just be nice (or even cordial), even when someone doesn't agree with you or won't budge on their opinions. This not being a "ideal world" isn't a reason to not foster the most positive and welcoming space as we can. We're all here because we're Magic players, and care about the game. :heart:

Your second point: If things get out of hand and a need for additional boards comes up, this is something that can be added very easily! The shuffler mega thread will still exist. As for making it full width, I have asked, and that can't be done. :slightly_frowning_face:

@Gorenzel:

You say News and Announcements will still be the place to find news and announcements, but I have always been frustrated that I had to always check General Discussion for news and announcements. This makes me assume this isn't changing, so what's the deal?

So the reason we did that was because News and Announcements didn't allow people to reply on posts there, so when it came to specific types of news, it had to be posted on General to allow replies. Now you will be able to reply to things posted on News and Announcements, woo!

News and Announcements will contain all News and Announcements.

@Pimp Master J:

@WotC_Lexie:

Your first point: Please just treat everyone with respect. Whether someone has two posts, or seven thousand, their question and/or opinion is valid. Seniority shouldn't be a factor in whether someone is taken seriously.

I'd argue post count is a factor in how the community responds, and is often helpful in the angle of response. This is different than saying everyone is valid, despite post count, which is what you are saying.
New players/posters and vets should be replied to in context of their experience level/knowledge. That's not invalidating anyone, just recognizing the foundation or motives of created posts or replies.

If taking away user post count throws the forums into chaos, they can be brought back at a later date. :slightly_smiling_face:

To those who have provided constructive feedback, thanks so much! Keep it coming.

Reminder to stay on topic and please stop with the insults. It isn't constructive or needed, and breaks the CoC.

Hey all! I'm going to close this thread. To those who posted constructive feedback about the forum rework, thanks so much! You are awesome. Keep an eye on your forum inbox tomorrow, I'll be sending you a code to redeem as a thank you. :slightly_smiling_face: