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| 0s | is are is this foreshadowing to pets |
|---|---|
| 3s | this is Pets we're bringing pets to New |
| 5s | World |
| 7s | [Applause] |
| 10s | sit hello and welcome to forge in |
| 13s | aternum the show where we talk all |
| 14s | things new world uh my name is Patrick |
| 17s | and today I'm joined by Joel and Tony |
| 19s | and we're here to talk about a really |
| 21s | exciting topic the economy uh if you use |
| 23s | the Trading Post the faction store kill |
| 25s | mobs run Expeditions you're contributing |
| 27s | to the economy and we're here to explain |
| 30s | to you what that looks like uh some of |
| 32s | the problems we face with our economy |
| 34s | and how we identify those problems uh |
| 36s | using some of our tools so uh speaking |
| 39s | problems Tony let's go ahead and get |
| 40s | started can you walk me through some of |
| 42s | the challenges in uh maintaining an |
| 44s | economy are you saying I'm a problem a |
| 46s | little |
| 47s | bit awesome so I mean when it comes to |
| 50s | economy um some of the big things that |
| 52s | we do face and some of the things that |
| 54s | we front or that we are faced up against |
| 57s | um the big one is actually wealth |
| 59s | disparity and so so what that means is |
| 62s | when you have players that play the game |
| 63s | an absolute ton then you have players |
| 65s | that maybe log in once or twice a week |
| 66s | you end up with this huge wealth Gap now |
| 69s | typically all in all you know in the the |
| 71s | reality of it that's okay on one end but |
| 74s | on the other end what happens is prices |
| 75s | start to ramp up we end up with |
| 77s | inflation there's just like a lot of |
| 78s | different things and a lot of real world |
| 81s | economic kind of terms that we face with |
| 84s | and what we want to do is we want to try |
| 85s | to keep that that Gap a little bit I |
| 88s | guess shorter if you will uh and so we |
| 91s | take a look at how is wealth being |
| 93s | distributed um you know do we need to do |
| 96s | things like distribute wealth more on a |
| 99s | weekly basis so you don't need to log in |
| 101s | every single day but then there's still |
| 102s | a source of wealth for people who do |
| 104s | want to play the game for 10 or 15 hours |
| 106s | a day and so there's like a lot of |
| 107s | complex problems trying to balance the |
| 109s | two because what we want to do is we |
| 111s | want somebody who only has a couple |
| 113s | hours a week to play to feel like their |
| 115s | time is valued and then we also want to |
| 117s | make sure that somebody who plays the |
| 118s | game an absolute ton still feels like |
| 119s | their time is valed valued but in doing |
| 121s | so not making it so they're so far |
| 123s | different that their experiences in the |
| 125s | game are just completely opposite of one |
| 127s | another yeah that's definitely one of |
| 128s | the bigger uh issues we face and it's |
| 130s | interesting that you say that like these |
| 132s | are real world problems we're tackling |
| 134s | because they are you see the FED meat |
| 135s | and they talk about inflation and how |
| 137s | rates are going to impact that uh those |
| 139s | are the kind of conversations we have to |
| 140s | have pretty frequently with the new |
| 142s | world economy because it is player |
| 143s | driven absolutely um so when we say |
| 145s | player driven economy Joel can you walk |
| 147s | us through what that means absolutely uh |
| 149s | so one thing to add to that too is that |
| 151s | players actually have the power to print |
| 152s | their own money they are the ones that |
| 154s | go out and kill a mob do an activity and |
| 157s | generate coin um so talking about wealth |
| 159s | disparity we have a tool called the |
| 161s | jinny index that we use which allows us |
| 163s | to measure uh the gap between the |
| 167s | high-end players and the more casual |
| 169s | time uh less timer players uh what that |
| 173s | does for us is we can use the data mixed |
| 177s | with a couple other dashboards that are |
| 179s | um basically faucets and syncs it allows |
| 181s | us to analyze every single value that is |
| 184s | coming in for coin and assess if we make |
| 187s | a balance change or a tuning change um |
| 190s | what impact have we caused on both of |
| 192s | those player groups and how do we |
| 193s | shorten that Gap um to some degree we |
| 196s | want a little bit there right we want to |
| 198s | make sure that the time R players again |
| 200s | as Tony said make it feel like their |
| 201s | their time is valued um but we have to |
| 203s | make sure that we control inflation so |
| 205s | we use the jinny index to monitor um |
| 208s | basically uh the amount of coin coming |
| 211s | in and the disparity between the players |
| 213s | coupled with uh dashboards that uh show |
| 217s | every single Source every single faucet |
| 220s | um and we as designers uh assess is this |
| 224s | the right place is this too easy is this |
| 226s | too hard for players to get coin um or |
| 228s | other resources as well it's not just |
| 230s | coin in that case um beyond that we also |
| 233s | have a few other tools in in our tool |
| 235s | belt uh which are um we have a uh trade |
| 239s | index that looks at the values of every |
| 241s | item in the game to see how successful |
| 243s | they are how used they are um and what |
| 245s | that does for us is really uh correlate |
| 248s | is there let's say iron is this valuable |
| 251s | or is this losing um losing its value |
| 254s | over the last patch is there a issue |
| 256s | with it um how do we control that to |
| 259s | make sure that a low player can go get |
| 260s | that easy to acquire resource and still |
| 263s | participate in the economy and still |
| 265s | bring value that the higher level |
| 267s | players can uh then buy those resources |
| 269s | from them so we're looking at these |
| 271s | different dashboards at a global scale |
| 274s | we're looking at them at a granular |
| 277s | scale so potentially individual worlds |
| 279s | especially say when new Fresh Start |
| 280s | worlds happen we look at the individual |
| 283s | worlds to see how the health is going |
| 284s | for those for that uh index uh the jinny |
| 287s | index or for the uh uh the In-N-Outs uh |
| 291s | faucets um on top of that we also have a |
| 293s | lot of player feedback that we get from |
| 295s | uh Discord that we get from internal |
| 298s | play tests um because feeling is just as |
| 300s | important here we want to make sure that |
| 302s | players feel again that their time is |
| 304s | valuable so we couple all of these tools |
| 307s | together and we try and do an assessment |
| 309s | we sit down I think it's every Tuesday |
| 311s | right now we sit down and we have an A |
| 313s | sync about the economy and we talk about |
| 315s | what's successful right now um where are |
| 318s | resources falling behind and we've had a |
| 320s | few of those issues in the past and I'm |
| 321s | sure Tony will talk about it later with |
| 323s | uh like leather the Ironhide leather |
| 327s | being not where we want it to be uh |
| 329s | versus is lower tier Le leather um and |
| 332s | ultimately our goal is to use these |
| 334s | tools to balance out and make it again |
| 337s | as Tony said that everyone's time is |
| 339s | valued yeah I think that's a really good |
| 340s | example to touch on is leather because |
| 342s | that has been one of our you know |
| 343s | problem children for lack of a better |
| 345s | word uh Rawhide the tier one leather is |
| 348s | generally a lot more expensive than iron |
| 350s | hide the tier five leather yes uh |
| 352s | confusing right because other every |
| 354s | other resource tier five outpaces it |
| 356s | significantly just because or Calcom a |
| 357s | lot more rare than iron uh runwood trees |
| 360s | for example also a lot more rare So with |
| 363s | iron or with the uh iron height issue |
| 365s | what steps have we taken to correct that |
| 367s | and when we think about a problem like |
| 368s | that what do we do to resolve it yeah |
| 370s | iron hide's interesting because like so |
| 373s | there there's wealth and there's stored |
| 374s | wealth and and iron hide itself is such |
| 376s | a at one point was such a complicated |
| 378s | problem we went through I don't know how |
| 380s | many discussions about let's try this |
| 381s | can we do that whatever and um excuse me |
| 385s | the when we look at it at first it |
| 388s | becomes a where is the stuff coming from |
| 391s | and where is the stuff going and you |
| 393s | know the realization was everybody got |
| 396s | to endgame everybody was in highend |
| 398s | zones everybody since everybody can do |
| 401s | everything everybody was skinning all |
| 403s | the things they were killing and so the |
| 405s | you know the generation was just through |
| 407s | the roof so that was that was one |
| 408s | problem what that led to was everybody |
| 411s | storing it because it really wasn't |
| 412s | worth much but people still had room in |
| 414s | their Town storages so they would throw |
| 416s | it in I mean you know I think at one |
| 417s | point I was holding on to 50,000 or |
| 418s | 60,000 iron hi high for whatever reason |
| 422s | and so then we do some changes and we're |
| 424s | like well we can change the amount of |
| 426s | iron hi High it takes to make uh infused |
| 430s | leather I think that was one of our |
| 431s | first changes where we basically |
| 433s | adjusted the recipe to consume more of |
| 435s | it um and that helped a little bit but |
| 438s | like you don't like make a change and |
| 439s | see a difference because there's a bunch |
| 441s | of people with 50,000 in their storage |
| 443s | and then it takes like three months for |
| 445s | them to burn through that before you |
| 446s | actually see any kind of kind of return |
| 448s | and so then we start taking a look at |
| 450s | well you know when it comes to skinning |
| 452s | in particular like what are Level ranges |
| 455s | for rawh hide whether the level ranges |
| 457s | for thicky CU we had a problem for water |
| 458s | thick hiive was just like super valuable |
| 461s | because there was like three packs of |
| 462s | wolves you'd go farm so that's what |
| 463s | everybody would do and there was a ton |
| 465s | of competition uh and so you know can we |
| 467s | move some of those things around and so |
| 469s | to the the Rawhide example actually for |
| 471s | the expansion when we brought in uh dark |
| 475s | hide we had to move some things around |
| 476s | again because I wanted to make sure that |
| 478s | we had enough uh creatures at the at the |
| 480s | high end and so we kind of adjusted all |
| 483s | the level things but what that did was |
| 484s | that removed and pushed Rawhide down |
| 487s | below level 30 therefore we lost the |
| 489s | farming Zone in cutless Keys which was |
| 491s | the main source of Rawhide so now we see |
| 493s | Rawhide going up because the source is |
| 496s | obviously down uh and so it's just like |
| 498s | a lot of back and forth in terms of what |
| 499s | we |
| 503s | do it's just a lot back and forth in |
| 505s | terms of what we can do and then you |
| 506s | know how do we balance um the the |
| 509s | overall input to the output |
| 513s | um |
| 516s | sorry hold Patrick context to the |
| 519s | audience why is a dog barking so a dog's |
| 522s | barking because last minute I had to |
| 524s | bring the dog in with me so she's over |
| 525s | there anxiously looking at me and wants |
| 528s | to come uh be pet so we're going to try |
| 530s | to make her stop barking we're sorry |
| 532s | she's very cute yes need get her a |
| 535s | little bit do you want her next to you |
| 536s | bring I think that'll make her be quiet |
| 538s | yeah bring her over sorry no it's a good |
| 541s | episode dude come here hello all right |
| 544s | set your ass down come |
| 546s | here are is this foreshadowing to pets |
| 550s | this is Pets we're bringing pets to New |
| 551s | World sit so we move some stuff around |
| 553s | for the expansion to make sure we had |
| 554s | enough room ended up moving levels |
| 556s | around and so Rawhide is now harder to |
| 558s | get so then that sends you know the |
| 560s | value up now the the knock on effect of |
| 562s | that right is rawhide becomes more |
| 564s | expensive so all the other Leathers |
| 566s | become more expensive because they all |
| 567s | rely on Rawhide so now we have to go |
| 569s | Circle back figure out you know where |
| 571s | can we massage the level gaps to maybe |
| 573s | bring cutless ke back into the play do |
| 575s | we not do that and do we change the |
| 577s | amount that rolls when you skin a level |
| 580s | 29 creature instead there's a lot of |
| 581s | ways that we can kind of adjust it and |
| 583s | the question is like what is the right |
| 584s | way sure and then we have to watch that |
| 586s | data for a while another thing to add |
| 587s | there too is that there's some |
| 588s | resistance to the price increasing like |
| 590s | you yourself said you had about 50k of |
| 592s | that stored um and we're very meticulous |
| 595s | with our changes it takes a long time to |
| 597s | make sure that we validate we're making |
| 599s | the right right choice uh in some cases |
| 601s | we may make a change and we may wait for |
| 603s | a while because it takes a while for the |
| 605s | players to drain that out of the economy |
| 607s | right so uh in the case of Rawhide we |
| 609s | made a change prior to the expansion and |
| 611s | it took a few months but we started to |
| 613s | see price correction now again expansion |
| 615s | more recently uh we're starting to see |
| 617s | uh spikes and shocks to the economy uh |
| 620s | as everything settles with the new |
| 621s | update right but prior to that it took |
| 623s | about 2 months for that iron hi High to |
| 625s | settle out of the economy and ultimately |
| 627s | get back to a healthy price right uh so |
| 629s | those are the type of things that we're |
| 630s | using the tools that I was mentioning |
| 632s | before to measure and control and make |
| 634s | sure that they retain value and that |
| 636s | they're useful to all players and that |
| 639s | everyone can find Value quickly and |
| 640s | easily and engage in the economy at a |
| 642s | low level even yeah exactly you know uh |
| 645s | wooden coin I think is another really |
| 646s | good example you know sitting uh at work |
| 649s | one day and going through the dashboards |
| 651s | and seeing that this goes to our item |
| 652s | faucet and sync that we have a overflow |
| 655s | of like it was like 98 and a half% on |
| 658s | wooden coins which means that 98 and a |
| 660s | half percent of all wooden coins that |
| 661s | come into the economy are just sitting |
| 663s | there and no one's using them for |
| 664s | anything and we're like what are we |
| 665s | going to do with these things they have |
| 667s | absolutely no value and there's just |
| 668s | like hundreds of thousands of these |
| 669s | things everywhere and I think it was |
| 671s | Izzy he was like just burn them and turn |
| 672s | them into charcoal literally burn them |
| 675s | we can we can burn them and we did that |
| 676s | and then their value came up and you |
| 678s | know now you get a good bump for |
| 679s | charcoal for and it may not be the best |
| 682s | thing to do with them but it still |
| 684s | worked and now they have value and so |
| 686s | you know it's it's not it's we have a |
| 688s | lot of options so it's it's always fun |
| 689s | to kind of mess with sure all right so |
| 691s | when we're designing new content uh |
| 694s | economic implications are a big thing |
| 695s | there so we make a new season pass for |
| 697s | example we have to be very meticulous |
| 698s | about what we're putting on that season |
| 700s | pass and how that's going to impact the |
| 702s | economy um so Joel I was hoping you |
| 704s | could talk to me a little bit about when |
| 705s | we're designing new content what sort of |
| 707s | expectations do we have for how that |
| 708s | performs economically and what |
| 710s | considerations do we have for how new |
| 711s | items might impact the economy |
| 713s | absolutely so when we're making a new |
| 715s | item generally we're looking for the |
| 716s | long-term health of that item how does |
| 718s | it fit in our long-term goals so we're |
| 721s | setting up kind of a average price range |
| 723s | what we think its value will be and |
| 725s | that's not one for one for what players |
| 726s | will actually decide ultimately when it |
| 728s | gets into the economy but we're looking |
| 730s | for specific targets to monitor the |
| 732s | health of that item uh after we start to |
| 735s | get it into the economy we're looking |
| 736s | for long-term Health making sure that |
| 738s | that item has a purpose uh that it has |
| 742s | continual faucets and syncs for it uh |
| 745s | going forward uh so good examples would |
| 747s | be new resources that we're seeing in |
| 749s | the expansion we'll continue to use |
| 750s | those in in um uh new crafting recipes |
| 754s | uh kind of a poor example would be the |
| 756s | flame core my fault um it's one of those |
| 758s | things where uh it doesn't quite make |
| 761s | sense and it's something we're going to |
| 763s | look at assessing and and kind of |
| 764s | addressing what do we actually want to |
| 765s | do with this because it doesn't really |
| 766s | have a home currently right so I think |
| 769s | really the key of this is making sure |
| 771s | that these items one have an immediate |
| 774s | value that we're kind of addressing at |
| 775s | the start uh and to longterm they really |
| 779s | have a home in a place uh in all |
| 781s | crafting not just in a a little pigeon |
| 783s | hold area right we need to make sure |
| 785s | that these things are valuable again uh |
| 787s | longterm and that they have a purpose on |
| 789s | the loot tables that they have a purpose |
| 790s | in the economy um to the wooden coins we |
| 793s | can always find ways to remove them or |
| 796s | change them uh but it's something that |
| 798s | we're always actively addressing to make |
| 800s | sure that these items continue to bring |
| 802s | value y absolutely no I think you said |
| 804s | it really well and it I think the fun |
| 806s | part about it is when we go into |
| 808s | something like Seasons Joel will come to |
| 811s | me like hey can we throw like this stuff |
| 812s | for like crafting materials or whatever |
| 815s | and it's almost always yes but um that |
| 818s | kind of back and forth and the ability |
| 820s | to have so much flexibility with what we |
| 822s | do with our stuff and how we can like |
| 824s | well we have access to this let's pigeon |
| 825s | hole it and move it over to here it's |
| 827s | just I don't know it's a lot of levers |
| 828s | and knobs it's a lot of fun to play with |
| 830s | for sure all right last question for you |
| 832s | two uh we just shipped an expansion |
| 834s | super exciting what is one thing that |
| 836s | has surprised you about how uh the |
| 838s | economy has been impacted from the |
| 839s | expansion I know for me uh golden scar |
| 842s | prices I thought they would stay a lot |
| 843s | higher than they did and they have |
| 845s | certainly come down a good bit so |
| 847s | interested in your thoughts yeah what |
| 849s | what surprised me with the expansion and |
| 852s | the economy um honestly this may be a |
| 856s | weird answer how stable it's been it's |
| 858s | actually looked really good and I was |
| 860s | very scared I was petrified we just |
| 862s | changed just about everything in the |
| 864s | game and |
| 866s | from uh you know a designer who's |
| 869s | looking after and uh keeps an eye on the |
| 872s | economy for the whole game when you have |
| 875s | thousands and thousands of changes |
| 877s | you're like I hope I did a lot of this |
| 879s | math right and you know I really hope |
| 881s | this goes well and I think we were all |
| 884s | on some level waiting for something to |
| 886s | hit the fan or something to go |
| 887s | completely sideways and knock on W it's |
| 891s | been really good so it's it's been it's |
| 893s | been fun so it's been enjoyable so for |
| 896s | me uh somewhat similar um it's like |
| 898s | performing surgery when you're going |
| 900s | into a new expansion there's a lot of |
| 902s | changes and it's really hard to measure |
| 903s | exactly what is going to have an impact |
| 906s | um similar feeling when we launched as |
| 907s | well uh ultimately I'm very surprised |
| 910s | that that the coin economy hasn't |
| 912s | changed too much in fact it's more |
| 913s | stable I think than it's been in a long |
| 915s | time um but then there's also little |
| 918s | nuances with a lot of the the resources |
| 920s | to where most of them are generally good |
| 922s | I think there's some some areas that |
| 923s | surprise me players are going faster |
| 925s | than I expected with more the resource |
| 926s | and the gear side of things um but I |
| 928s | think that's an overall positive |
| 930s | experience and it feels good to get to |
| 932s | the end and uh get all of the resources |
| 935s | and gears you want gear you want to |
| 937s | engage with that in-game content um but |
| 940s | the coin economy is really where I was |
| 942s | surprised I expected there to be a few |
| 944s | more uh just minor issues in there and |
| 947s | it it's been extremely stable it's very |
| 950s | proud of that and that brings us to our |
| 952s | community question and before we uh get |
| 954s | to the community question though I want |
| 955s | to thank you both for joining me for |
| 956s | this high level overview of the economy |
| 959s | uh if you folks have liked this let us |
| 960s | know and we're happy to do a more |
| 961s | quarterly Deep dive into what's |
| 963s | happening in the economy what some of |
| 965s | the hot button issues are and what fixes |
| 967s | we have for those sorts of issues uh so |
| 969s | with that said our community question |
| 971s | for the day uh what's your favorite part |
| 973s | of the economy to engage in and what |
| 975s | ways are you making gold end game uh |
| 976s | thank you for joining us and we'll see |
| 978s | you in the |
| 980s | [Music] |
| 981s | [Applause] |
| 988s | tum |
| 991s | la |