Having prestige and non prestige share the same highscores when they have access to entirely different parts of the game is wild to me. There are so many issues with this idea across the board. Honestly they should just filter the existing highscores to find the pures, 10hp, 1def, ect and leave it at that.
I'll say that behind the scenes, viewing these 'separate' HiScores is effectively just filtering what's already there - but what you've described in your last sentence is effectively what the outcome would be if Official Account Builds were to make its way into the game.
This whole thing seems like a waste of dev time. People pour countless hours into special niche accounts, and to ruin the novelty seems like a fast cash grab for Jagex, assuming people make new accounts. If this goes to poll, I hope this is one that the community doesn’t want.
This is something we tried to address in the conversation around dev time, in that the core system is really easy to spin up and expand upon. It's less complex than even Quest Speedrunning (which was already very quick), and adding additional layers is also something that could be done talking in timeframes of a number of hours, rather than days.
I understand where you're coming from though, this is what the poll system is for after all!
You mention this in the post as considered and too difficult to implement right now, but I'll just agree that the only way I think these will land is if the mode also totally disables the ability to perform actions that would otherwise grant this kind of XP--completing quests, attacking, etc.
The request, I think, is to make these difficult builds slightly less painful to maintain and not to warp the gameplay landscape created by the restriction. It's less interesting that a 10HP account literally only has 10 Hit Points, the interesting part is the parts of the game that character fundamentally can't touch, or can only touch in creative ways.
Keep up the great work, I know this is a difficult problem to work toward!
I think there are other sides to it too, seeing Skillers be able to try and tackle quests they couldn't otherwise but still playing within what (for many of them at least) is the core appeal of their restriction is interesting. For 1 Def pures, as an example, the appeal is largely playing as a glass cannon, optimising for PvP and tackling PvM with limited defensive stats - something like not being able to do Hallowed Sepulchre doesn't (in the eyes of good chunk of pures we see feedback from) meaningfully contribute to what makes the restriction enjoyable.
10HP is a totally different kettle of fish because of the nature of Combat in OSRS, hence it needing to be addressed separately.
You're absolutely right though that this is a tricky one to work toward, and one I hope we're able to find a comfortable middle-ground on to shine a light on approaching the game in a new way. Appreciate you taking the time to voice your thoughts!
This 100%,the 2023 roadmap looks horrifically bare. A couple of quests and a wc update? Yawn.
The roadmap from the Winter Summit only covers the first half of 2023, and we'll for sure have smaller content releases in and amongst the bigger beats we talked about in the Summit! Plus things like a whole new prayer book, potential discussions of a new skill - there's potential for things that totally recontextualise content that's already in the game and give players an opportunity to explore content they're already familiar with in a new light.
Not to mention the 'couple of quests' bring with them a combined 5 new bosses!
I appreciate that existing accounts with a lot of progress won't get left behind.
But am I understanding correctly that a level 3 skiller with account builds can gear up in full bronze and just train slayer normally (without prestige)? That just seems like an entirely separate playstyle and community.
Slayer is for sure something else to tackle via Community Consultation, considering it's another interesting use-case for 10HP specifically, and one we'd absolutely be looking to work with the 10HP and Skiller community on to find a suitable landing point.
u/JagexGoblin I don't think it's about the amount of dev time more like it's about the amount of weekly updates dedicated purely to improve said content.
Fresh start worlds and Speedrunning- both concepts that were claimed to need very little dev-time, were addressed every 2-3 weeks posts launch for months.
Even if it's not the goal, it feels like those "low dev time" concepts are being chosen because they can fill the weekly update change log, because in reality game itself is changing in a much more slower pace than in the last few years.
I think this largely comes down to them often landing on quieter weeks. Last week for example was when the Wilderness Boss Rework was originally scheduled for - but the WBR was delayed, and as a result we had only QSR Batch and Poll 77 changes for the week.
I don't think they're ever chosen to 'fill the weekly update' as much as when we have weeks that don't have significant content drops, their appearance understandably looks like it's the only thing we've 'worked on' for the week, which is never the case!
Any updates on items lost due to the rollback like our twisted bow?
There are still conversations ongoing internally between the OSRS Team and Player Support, nothing I'm able to share here but we'll update players once we have more to report!
On the subject of hiscores, is there any chance we are gonna get GIM hiscores at some point? We have hiscores for the team as a whole, but it would be nice to compare skill total/boss kc rank vs other gims indivudually. UIM/HCIMs have the ability, so it would be nice to have as a GIM as well. Seems weird to add hiscores for restricted accounts which have a LOT less players on whilst GIM accounts don't have that currently.
Personally would love for us to expand the functionality of the HiScores to accommodate things like this. While there's nothing I'm aware of at present, I don't think it's wholly outside the realm of possibility.
Is there a reason it couldn't have been implemented like the PK skull limiter, where gameplay is unaffected and if you try to gain restricted exp you simply can't do the restricted action? I think that would solve a lot of player concern (though not address the overall lack of interest)
We addressed this in the italicised note just above 'Further Considerations' in the post!
Is there going to be further updates for other account types, such as 13 defence, 30 defence etc? Seems weird for only 1 defence and skillers to get the option 👍🏻
I think if the core system makes it into game and is stable that it'd for sure be able to expand with locks at a specific threshold - just that to start with, locking at 0XP is the 'safest' place to get to and make sure things function. Sort of the same rationale for Quest Speedrunning offerings releasing in batches rather than just dumping 50 quests off the bat.
Completely agree with not downgrading the acheivment of current 10hp pures. A little bummed I can't make a 10hp pk rusher.
I don't understand the prestige, being able to do quests without undesirable xp is the main perk/point to this update?
I think for a lot of people that's the main perk yeah, but for people who might already play within those restrictions and want to opt in to a snazzy new chat icon or HiScore filter - the idea of maintaining the 'purity' of a build and being able to signify/symbolise that is important! Some people play restricted accounts for the flex, some play for the fun of it - being able to appeal to both is what this update is trying to do, while also maybe encouraging more people to get stuck in to trying the game out in a different way.
For 1 Def pures, as an example, the appeal is largely playing as a glass cannon, optimising for PvP and tackling PvM with limited defensive stats - something like not being able to do Hallowed Sepulchre doesn't (in the eyes of good chunk of pures we see feedback from) meaningfully contribute to what makes the restriction enjoyable.
I've played a 1 defence pure for years and would love to be able to complete every quest / access parts of the game i'm not currently able to. I don't understand why so many people are against it saying it devalues accounts.
I don't think there are 'so many' in fairness! There are for sure a handful of people who like having done things the hard way or take some pride in their accomplishments being devoid of Fairy magic etc., but the Prestige system aims to give those people the opportunity to still flex, while also enabling other people to engage with the core of the restriction, without some of the additional bits.
For example, if we were mapping out Morytania these days, I don't think the team would likely hard-force Defence XP via Nature Spirit on unlocking some of the more exciting offerings of the region. But there's a whole bunch of content in the game from 2002-2005 that cares a little less about that side of things. RS3 tried to accomplish similar with an increased emphasis on making Quest XP rewards lamps rather than direct XP injections on Quest completion.
Appreciate the updates!
Just curious - in the case of a 1 def Ironman, which chat icon would take priority?
I think this would be one to ask Engine on. I'm not wholly sure - perhaps could show both, or perhaps could let players choose! That'll be one to hash out in Community Consultation 100%.
Again slightly off-topic but related to game modes..
Can you include adding HC UIM in here as a game mode? I understand it may not get a huge amount of players, but it's the only Ironman mode without a hardcore option.
It would be a new way for content creators to interact with the game, get more eyeballs on OSRS and significantly mixes up the game mode, as no death piles can be used
I think if there were enough demand for it for sure, I've seen a handful of people make UIMs that block themselves from using death mechanics (i.e. looting bag, deathpiles etc.) and wouldn't be personally opposed - though I could understand some people perhaps not wanting to further dilute Iron.
yoo dud how about deadman mode with couple new relics :D
I'm really hopeful that DMM is something we'll talk about this year, but nothing to share at this time!
Who asked for this? Certainly not the people with actual restricted accounts, finding niche solutions/exclusions is the whole reason they do this. Restricting to an area or official chunk man would be much more appreciated.
These are restrictions that (in my understanding at least) we'd be able to add to and expand on the core system with if the initial release is stable/smooth. Mod Dylan is cracked and seems confident that it's something he'd be able to do in future if there's demand.
Can we get something for 70 def accounts or is that against the spirit of this update?
Spoke about this in another comment, but I think the possibility of setting a lock XP value is something we could offer in the future as an expansion to the system.
There are also other builds that make sacrifices to have these unlocks, such as 13 defense pures for slayer helm/fairy rings, who are left out in the cold with no highscores and pointless avoidable exp.
I think this is also valid and something for us to discuss if the initial greenlight happens!
However I'd argue most people making 13 Def Pures seem moreso interested in some of extra gear offerings (like the Slayer Helm) and that questing Nature Spirit for Fairy Tale Pt. 2 is an easy way to get north of 10def without gaining too many excess combat levels and also unlocking Fairy Rings. Happy to be wrong or disagreed with, but from what a lot of what I read from these communities - it doesn't often feel like people go from 1-13 Def for Fairy Rings, as much as the Rings being a cherry on top of other interesting offerings.
Remember guys, GIM was supposed to launch with a way to distinguish prestige players from non presistiged players on the high scores. I dont think that's been implemented to this day.
You can already distinguish between prestige groups and non-prestige groups: https://secure.runescape.com/m=hiscore_oldschool_ironman/a=97/group-ironman/?groupSize=5 (the star icon is for Prestige). Unless I'm misunderstanding you here?
Fairy rings was a big factor getting 13 def on my pure iron which I played on at 13 def for years afterwards.
More broadly having maxed 1 def be the only pure with restrictions means that 13def, 20def, 25def, 1attack, 50attack etc. accounts would become even moreso second class citizens than they are, without an official account type of their own
I can totally understand where you're coming from - I've said in other comments that if the core system is greenlit and makes its way into the game that we could likely add 'locks' at higher XP values, though I know this doesn't address your frustration at having chosen to go to 13 Def and Fairy Rings playing a role in that decision.
They should poll this stuff instead of relying on .04% of the player base to decide the rules.
Good thing we're polling it then!
Every time jagex are about to implement something good they bow to a few Reddit nerds and ‘decide not to implement it for now’
I think it's less a case of 'a few Reddit nerds' and more a case of, logically coherent and wholly valid argument put forward and agreed upon by the majority of one of a niche community, the exact kind of community that this kind of 'officialisation' is aimed to help flourish, rather than frustrate.
Isn’t that the point of those builds though. No being allowed to complete certain quests because they decided to restrict their account. If you want to have access to the full game, don’t restrict yourself … seem strange to me to make a whole update to unrestrict restricted accounts … just my take tho I understand it is only an opinion
I think it depends on the framing. The only 'hard' restriction of a 1 Def Pure is that you stay 1 Def. However, due to decisions or design choices made in the early 2000s, you might find yourself gated from accessing content that doesn't really meaningfully impact what's fun about the restriction. As an example, Nature Spirit was added in 2004, and In Search of the Myreque in 2005. Understandably, as Morytania content has expanded - some of this expansion ties beautifully into the Myreque storyline. However, to access Meyerditch and take part in something like Hallowed Sepulchre - you'd have to gain Defence XP.
Feedback we see pretty frequently is that it feels bad to see us release really cool new content that some accounts (choosing to limit themselves for gameplay/combat concerns primarily) can't engage with at all because of decisions made in the early noughties. While there are bound to be others (including people who play those restricted builds) who feel differently, we want a system like this to be able to broaden the horizons of restricted builds, while still offering some Prestige for people playing with 'complete purity' as it were.
How exactly would more people playing pures be bad for low level pvp? Aside from the whole devaluing meme.
I think the concerns raised are more around how disproportionately hard a 10hp can hit compared to other accounts in similar brackets, due to just how low their cb level sits without HP. They're extremely powerful rushing accounts (assuming you catch your opponent fully off-guard), and I think that some of the concerns raised by the 10HP community about how they could upset the balance of PvP at low levels are pretty valid - considering they're currently gated behind thousands of hours of meticulous planning and progress.
I think if there were enough demand for it for sure
you mean like champions max cape? tell us either yes or no, quit with this "if theres enough demand" nonsense
For what it's worth I'd love to see a Champion's Max Cape, I think its visuals are among the coolest in the game - I'm more just trying to make sure I'm not committing us to a stance we're not able to take and setting people up for disappointment, when there's still a lot of uncertainty around some features!
I understand the idea of what you guys are suggesting I guess the way I see it is that’s what a main account is for. I’m my eyes if you decided to restrict your account you gotta live with what means. If you want to enjoy all the content don’t restrict your account. But like I said it’s definitely just an opinion and that’s what polling is for
I get where you're coming from! Conversely I think you could make the same argument for Iron as a game mode, had it not been officialised. I made my first Iron in 2015 knowing full well what it entailed, but still found myself enjoying the addition of things like Drew's sandstone grinder, farming contracts etc. that fundamentally changed progression on those types of accounts without taking away from the core reason for me to engage with the restriction (not being able to trade).
Speaking wholly personally, because I still completely understand the other side of the coin and why people might feel otherwise.
Is there a reason that the new skill gets a yes/no poll, but this (so far) does not?
If you caught the Summit Summary blog, we said that we were polling new skill greenlight as its own question and that the other poll questions would likely go live on December 20th!
Poll this.
It is being polled on the 20th beast.
Its wild to me the change of views in the community. I also started an iron early into its release and if you suggested anything about it being unfair all you ever heard was "you chose to limit yourself" and now we are suggesting bending the game around the limited accounts. Its very surprising people seem to be okay with it.
Speaking purely personally here: in fairness, I made my first iron in 2015. When I jumped into GIM with an IRL the difference in speed + ease of progress is absolutely massive, it's far easier to progress now than it was back then despite what was available to me when I 'chose to limit myself'. Attitudes and philosophies change over time and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Would also argue that a whole bunch of people still use the 'chose to limit yourself' line in a lot of discussions like this!
I haven’t played in a bit. But I get the impression that you might actually play a restricted account yourself, and I have a feeling that you might have had an important role in making dynamite (p) happen.
If that’s the case, thank you very much for that. It’s very much appreciated, and I look forward to trying it out when I find some time for ’scaping again.
I’m also happy to hear about the restricted accounts poll, even if it ends up not passing the way it’s currently being suggested.
I've played a handful of goofy restrictions in the past, though none with a use case for Poison dynamite - those wheels were set in motion before I even started!
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