[2021] The actual problem with skilling in OSRS

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The common complaint concerning bloated PvM drop tables as it relates to de-incentivizing skilling is a red herring in my opinion. Players are complaining about skilling not being profitable, and not comparing to the resource output of PvMing. I agree that this is a problem, but not the overarching one.

In my opinion, there’s a more fundamental problem with OSRS’s skilling system (which I love). It’s not effectively integrated or rewarding at all. Blacksmithing, fletching, crafting, will never provide a BIS item like crafting systems in other MMO’s, which essentially means that the corresponding gathering skills will also be relatively meaningless in their value output. By the time you hit 99 mining or smithing, the gear relative to those levels are meaningless compared to gear you can purchase or achieve through PvM. Even for an Ironman many of the “crafting skills” are pointless. This is reinforced by the fact that achievement diaries, in reality are the best underlying utility to leveling a lot of skills. I love the addition of those diaries, but it is an ultimately arbitrary way to impute value to skills.

I think if players ultimately want to fix the “profitability” of skilling, they should first think in categories of better integration and a more rewarding system. Rather than the pure GP output of a given skill.

One example that I’m just pulling out of my ass, some BIS items in other MMO’s require a sort of recipe that involves a unique PvM drop, a mixture of gathered materials, and the crafting lvl required to create the item. What if BIS items in OSRS were similarly integrated. To craft some great-sword you need 500 Runite bars and a dragons dick, with the corresponding blacksmithing level, maybe even a recipe learned from some grandmaster quest. Skilling materials will be more lucrative when they are made more useful. The drop tables would certainly still need to be addressed to some degree, but I think it’s only one piece of the pie. Just some thoughts.

TLDR: Skilling will be more “profitable” when it’s given more overall utility and better integration with other parts of the game.

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over 3 years ago - /u/JagexFlippy - Direct link

Yes and no.

Looking at the money making guide on the wiki, there's plenty of money makers using skills. The main problem is that players who say skilling isn't profitable mean there is no competitive/best xp/h method which ALSO is as profitable as doing something requiring skill, starting budget and account progression (e.g. bossing).

If woodcutting gave you resources for a BiS platebody rather than your usual logs, woodcutting wouldn't magically turn super profitable. The resources for the BiS item would still be dirt cheap, because supply doesn't change.

Not to say you can't do this for skills. You could make difficult skilling bosses or more stuff similar to Hallowed Sepulchre. I'm just saying supply is equally important to demand if you want to make competitive skilling methods profitable. Additionally, the more you increase xp/h the more supply you'll have, hence decreasing the value of the items.

over 3 years ago - /u/JagexFlippy - Direct link

Originally posted by nickyGyul

That's not really what OP was getting at. OP was saying that there is an other way to bring back the intrinsic value of Skilling aside from making Skilling content competitive with bossing in terms of profit.

By making some of the upper echelons of gear require decent Skilling stats. So even if some of the parts (of the new BiS unique) get flooded into the game, at least legitimate players will feel rewarded for the time and gp sink that is training Skills. I personally thought that the Barronite mace was a really cool implementation.

Mod Curse is keen on a Completionist cape, but I feel like that would be a band-aid fix for adding value to other parts of the game. Adding it to the game will feel worse if 8/23 Skills have no great use outside of diaries and getting a Max cape.

Skilling would less likely feel like an arbitrary grind if it became equally important as other stats for account progression. I feel like the gp/hr with Skilling is a misdiagnosis of the problems with Skilling.

Plus, you've already pointed out that in order to get comparable profit via Skilling, one would have to sink in way more time training the skill compared to combat. Zulrah or Vorkath has a lower barrier to entry than the comparable gp/hr Skilling counterparts. You'd need near-99s to effectively make that gp/hr outlined in the wiki.

I'm sorry but I've re-read the thread three times and I don't at all see what you're describing in the original post.

You're saying that it feels bad because skills aren't integrated enough which I can stand behind 100%. OP has a TLDR saying "Skilling will be more “profitable” when it’s given more overall utility and better integration with other parts of the game." and essentially explains how skilling resources would be more valuable if they were used as recepies for BiS gear.

over 3 years ago - /u/JagexFlippy - Direct link

Originally posted by RaidsMonkeyIdeas

Ferocious Gloves gives a good precedent - Bosses drop the raw/tradeable material and you need high skills to make it, with the final product being untradeable so people can't just buy the completed product off someone else. This is how you make higher skill level relevant.

You're right about the BIS platebody example because if it only costs like 10 Logs to make, it would be dirt cheap due to how much is in the game. You would have to consume like 1,000,000 Logs or Ores to make it reasonable.

As for direct profit from skilling, more Hallowed Sepulcher/high-intensity activity that's locked behind higher skill levels is always welcome, especially if it's bringing in consumables as its primary source of gp - Blood Runes, Sanfews, etc. Avoid high intensity activities that are extremely monotonous like clicking NPC for Blood Shards/Crystal Seeds.

Sepulcher does a good balance between GP and XP because if you sacrifice most of GP, u can get slightly higher rates.

Yeah I'm all up for that type of content.

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