devtrackers.gg
I've managed to break the news module, so you won't be able to access the link just yet... sorry about this lol
Edit: should be fixed now, really sorry about that!
I've managed to break the news module, so you won't be able to access the link just yet... sorry about this lol
Edit: should be fixed now, really sorry about that!
These combat achievements would be great content for people like Xzact and Rendi to push the boundaries of what players think is possible similar to their 3cb fire cape series, Xzact’s 40 cb inferno, and Rendi’s lower the better series.
With that said please do not add hard combat level/gear requirements to tasks. Things like use Dharoks to kill Mole or base x combat stats locks these lower the better accounts out from completing a tier set. Tasks should all be “completable” as long as an account has access to the boss (slayer level, quest requirement, etc).
Have you read the updated blog? This exact point is pretty much covered in it :)
I saw the update about limited accounts being able to complete up to hard, but I still see the Dharoks task which is why I asked about the hard requirement of gear/stats.
"where possible we'd like to offer players an alternative option to completing a specific task that would otherwise be impossible"
This is what I was referring to! We'd just offer alternate gear options with lower requirements if that was the only limiting factor :)
I hope you guys consider giving Ironmen seperate GWD rooms to mains, like Corp. Instances are definitely needed for mains with how packed bandos is, but it's unfair for ironmen imo.
For context, bandos alone took me 800kc to complete at 3 kc per trip, thats 40M GP just to get BIS melee armour... (and I have friends who went up to 1,300 KC to complete a BGS/bandos).
Are you taking into account the gold you would have earnt along the way if you end up going that dry? With a decent amount of kills per trip, you shouldn't ever really lose money. Appreciate that whilst learning, you might not get as many kills per trip though.
That's ignoring the potential loot you get from killing the boss aside from the uniques, though.
According to the wiki without uniques you can expect to net ~38k/kill. This works out to ~30.5m in drops not including any duplicates you could sacrifice to Death's Coffers. If ironmen really only care about getting the uniques then it's more like 10m to complete the set (in your case).
You realize ironmen can't sell items on the grand exchange for gp, right... ?
But you can put them into Death's Coffer and there is a new question that was added to allow for the fees to be paid from there if you'd rather.
Thank you for considering player feedback. This is a great improvement on the GWD instance front.
Opening it (and other instances) to deaths coffers makes it far more accessible for ironmen.
It may still be a bit pricey, but I'm confident that can be re-examined any time in the future, so I'm not about to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Please don't throw the baby
ironmen instances should be free, not locked behind content and gp gated.
They're instances for everyone though, not just Ironmen :(
u/JagexAyiza any news on when the next Gielinor Gazette is coming out, we didn't get one in Ocotber and November is almost over?
There should be one coming soon, but I can't give you an exact date sorry :(
I saw that, I think that's a somewhat fair compromise. However can I ask why there's a precedent being set where an almost uniquely ironman problem is being solved by punishing us with a fee? You guys handled the corp one perfectly, why not give us the same thing?
Do you still feel like having the ability to pay instance fees with Death's Coffer is too punishing?
Edit: I should also add that the change to Corp is a little unique here, as we all know the only way you can solo that is by reducing the defence with special attacks, something that's not possible to do with an instance as the stats reset once you leave and re-enter.
This all just feels like pointless busy work to me honestly. Why do we need a separate achievement list for PVM to clog up the interface?
Is PVM so unpopular that we need a diary to incentivize people to do it?
Why are we locking things that should just simply exist already like GWD instances behind this? Why must GWD instances be ~unlocked~ but anyone and their mum can do kraken instances?
I don't think introducing new players into PvM and giving long-term goals for all players that want them is pointless, but that's the beauty of opinions I guess. We all have them but don't have to agree :)
GWD bosses are a little more lucractive than the likes of Kraken, and instances there is a pretty huge change, so locking it behind some requirements to lessen the impact on the wider game and long-term health of the economy seems like a sensible decision to make.
3 zuks in one task i think i just busted in my pants
I hope you had some tissues close by
Thank you for listening to the community on liquid gp and death's coffer regarding GWD instances! Very pleased with the changes.
I'm glad you're happy with the changes!
Instances changes are fine, encourages longer trip methods and the death coffer thing makes it super easy (drop dupes in there -> pay for Bandos trips)
Thanks Ayiza
<3
Will you have achievements for killing bosses unarmed? I've always thought it would be the fremennik way to kill vorkath by bashing its skull in with my fists and I'd love to get a achievement for something like that!
Maybe ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I still think instances should be free for ironman.
Or at least expand what we can put in the coffer to pay for this, I guess I can suffer the cost more if I can put in my redwood shields and magic bow(u)s
Forgive my ignorance here but could you not just alch your Redwood shields and Magic bow(u)'s for the gold and then use that to pay the fee?
Not an ironman so maybe I am missing something, but don't irons already get Corp beast instances for free? I don't see why they need to pay GP at all for GWD when that free instance precedent has already been set. It does devalue the combat achievements for them a little I guess, but they can still go for unlocking the teleports and reduced KC which are fantastic rewards on their own already.
Much happier with the current costs for mains now though. If you get a Jad/Zuk task to kill 2-3 of them, does each kill in that task get the increased pet drop rate?
The Corporeal beast situation is a little unique. Because the only way to solo it is to reduce the stats with special attacks, and stats get reset each time you leave and enter a new instance, a private instance (which already existed there) wasn't feasible.
We have the opportunity to approach this in a different way, one that won't have as big an impact on the long-term health of the game and benefits all players.
And the increased Jad/Zuk tasks would act the exact same as the current one does :)
To be honest, I don't think having a fee is the issue. But I think the cost of it is.
End-game GP making methods on ironman such as corrupted gauntlet (which you'd do far after GWD tbh) are like 400 - 500k gp per hour. On the lower end you have slayer and ardy knights which can range from about 150 - 350k gp per hour depending on which task you have or what you're doing.
I think lowering the cost down a little more for ironmen would make the proposed instances more palatable. 100k w/ hard would be fair IMO, though some other irons seem to think there should be no fees at all which may be too forgiving
My ~1800 total HCIM has absolutely no issues with GP from just playing casually.
I'm not sure where this lack of Ironman GP everyone else is experiencing comes from honestly. I'd love to be enlightened because I am absolutely stumped lol
GWD bosses are a little more lucractive than the likes of Kraken, and instances there is a pretty huge change, so locking it behind some requirements to lessen the impact on the wider game and long-term health of the economy seems like a sensible decision to make.
So we punish lower level players that can maybe get 1-2 kills a trip with higher instance costs while higher level players can get in quicker and cheaper for multi kill trips?
GWD instances should exist as a separate thing with a static cost. Lets introduce these new players to PVM by actually making the instances usable rather than being higher than the profit they're going to make on a typical trip.
Do you not think if the higher level players are getting in quicker and cheaper, the overcrowding issues in non-instanced rooms would be better? If they were, you could always use those to practice until you're confident enough to pay the fee for a private room?
It feels like not that much has changed outside of Instances. Will anything about the new offhand and its balance around the Avernic be addressed before the poll? Going from +30-28 to +40 is quite the leap, especially for Pures who go from +8 to +25. On that note, how is the Offhand obtained? Is it free to reobtained, making it no risk for PvP?
It would be free to obtain yeah.
It's a lot of accuracy but provides no strength, in most scenarios avernic will be better dps, where this offhand would shine at very high defence monsters.
Middle ground: Scrap the gold requirement on GWD instances and make it only payable from Deaths Coffer. This way, Irons have an incentive to not drop trade shit because they need to sacrifice duplicate pieces to the coffer to pay for instances.
No one can complain about irons dropping dupes anymore and irons get an actually decent way to pay for their instances that isn't dipping into another one of their scarce resources (GP).
It has been changed to offer the ability for all accounts to use deaths coffer to pay for all instances in the game, as a separate question.
So just to be 1000% clear, having (or stats to equip) a set of full dharoks will not be required to complete any diary task?
Will any of these require defeating wilderness bosses?
Oh it might be required at some point. We're not able to make Combat Achievements open to absolutely every type of limited account, purely because you just cannot kill certain bosses without the requirements, but the blog states we'd be looking to make up to Hard completable by low Defence builds.
Wilderness bosses are included in Combat Achievements yes.
My fellows irons. THIS is honestly even better than the update we asked for. Is it pricey? Yes, a bit. But mage bandos, range bandos; they are options to lessen the cost. By the time you want to grind out 1k bandos KC, you will have money from shamans and Hydra. Gold is expendable eventually. This price is NOT the hill we should die on. If we keep complaining, support will fall. This is likely our only chance at getting instances, and in a way that legitimately helps all players. This is an instant YES from me, and I hope from you all too.
Glad you agree, GP has very limited use for irons and I don't think it's unreasonable to either ask you to grind some GP before grinding bandos if you want to avoid regular/non instanced bandos, or even grinding for some dupes to dump in the coffer.
It's kind of what the gamemode is all about, gather your resources, then use them.
These prices are absurd. Does anyone at jagex actually play the game they work on? Over 100m just to get the opportunity to finish gwd is absolutely insane.
Realistically you're only going to use instances for bandos, and even then you don't need to use it for all of your KC, most likely just during peak times, or if you can't be bothered hopping at all.
How much you "pay" really depends on how good you are at the content, and how many dupes you're willing to dump in the coffer.
I don't think it's unreasonable to have to spend some GP to earn this luxury, the amount of GP you spend really depends on you. (And i guess your RNG at bandos)
Hey quick question, will UIM be able to use the deaths coffer for this? Just want to clarify because currently we retain the old death mechanics and don’t use deaths coffer at all like other account types
Currently UIM can't dump items in there as there's no point, but if that question passes I think it would be reasonable to lift that restriction.
Please don't throw the baby
plz
Realistically we get crashed at literally every boss, so we will need to make the choice of paying the money for a guaranteed trip or just hoping we are not crashed. Every crash is a supply and time waste, so it isnt as simple of a choice as you'd like people to believe.
Also just how good do you expect people to become at bandos? The skill required to sit there an prayer flick is one thing, but doesn't even mention the laggy servers. Yesterday I got my first ever zulrah kc and I died at least 10 times because it was completely new content for me. How can you realistically expect people to afford the cost of their learning curve when it will be in the millions?
I love how you call being able to kill the boss a luxary. As if this isn't just an extremely outdated dungeon that we're literally begging you to fix. I have an idea, how about instead of all this instances bullshit, just make it so it's impossible to crash someone at gwd. Then everyone can finish their trips and it's fair for literally everyone. Or add multiple boss lairs per world like with cerb and sire.
It's ridiculous to me that bad game design is being bandaid fixed with forcing ironmen to pay absurd amounts of gp or throwing away our dupes. I personally like to hang on to mine, just incase something dumb happens and I lose a piece. I don't mind putting them in the coffer, but this also rides of the fact that I wont go extremely dry at bandos. If I do go dry then I will be punished pretty hard for bad rng.
Getting crashed at anything that isn't bandos is quite rare I found, I'm sorry if you had a different experience but I do believe Bandos is the only boss really in demand here.
Instances do help the laggy server point quite a lot, since you can choose what world is best for you, instead of having to hop and sometimes be forced to use a suboptimal world.
I'm sorry you feel that the costs are still too steep, I'm afraid we're just going to have to disagree on that.
This might be too specific but for example I have a stack of 15k magic longbow(u)s, these only alch for 768 compared to ge price of 1020.
I am already 99 magic and don't really want to alch those anyway , and collecting bowstring and stringing them would also be horrible fletching xp compared to other methods.
Currently there is no "efficient" reason for me to touch those 15k magic longbow(u)s , and there is sure as hell no for fun reason to want to do 15k alchs.
If I could chuck them all in the death coffer for ge price would be great.
This also applies to tons of other ironman supplies like glass orbs or gold bars that you have absolutely no use for the number you get from other standard training methods.
Given the context you provided, that's fair enough. I wouldn't want to alch 15k bows either, especially if I was interested in efficient gameplay.
That being said, does the Death's Coffer question cover the specific issue for you as you'd just be able to whack them all in there and have your fees covered for a pretty considerable amount of time?
please explain what impact iron corp instances has had on the "long-term health of the game" when sigil prices have only gone up?
That part was in regards to the GWD instances specifically and not related to the Corp changes. There hasn't been an impact on the long-term health of the game with Corp, but there could be with GWD, which is why if we're able to, we'd rather avoid it!
I think the problem is a lot of irons responding to this aren’t at a point yet where they have the cash to spare, but they also wouldn’t be the ones these instances target. I remember struggling for gold in the early game stages and thinking I’d never have any leftover. But by the time I wanted to really grind bandos, I had tons of gold banked.
I think the current proposal is fair to everyone and probably the smartest way to implement instances
Yeah I can empathize with that, early on you're saving up GP for buckets of sand, construction, some runes here and there.
It does very quickly become semi-useless until you go for 99 construction, then after that it's basically just blood runes if you're interested in getting the blood weapons.
That aside people of all levels will get duplicate items they can use, even barrows items hold a hefty value that will help a lot.
Personally yes and I feel would also cover a lot of ironman issues with having to use up value to go into bandos instances.
If for example ironmen could use anything on deaths coffers rather than just the limit, if you are not willing to just do free ironman instances it would be a good compromise giving ironmen a use for "value" they otherwise have wasting.
Thanks for your replies, it's been really helpful <3
That's fine to disagree, that's what the polls are for. I just feel that cash is a resource that shouldn't have to be spent on instances. People crash an ironman literally everywhere. I've had people crash me even at places like dustdevils in the catacombs, just because I have iron in my name and that makes it a free world.
Also I do play on 30ms servers and still have been getting large lag spikes. It seems to be an issue with the leagues worlds and increased player base.
Since you seemed to have skipped over it, I'm going to ask again. Why are you not considering just making it impossible to crash at bandos? The worst outcome would be a team locking down a world by trading supplies with an alt. This could be fixed by just disabling trading in the boss room and making every player leave the boss room and get more KC if they want more supplies. That being said, I honestly wouldn't even mind this. I just want the opportunity to be able to complete a trip without paying a large amount of money.
You also skipped over the learning curve bit. Any plans on a reduced cost for people without 10 boss kc?
I don't think there's a realistic way of "disabling crashing" at godwars. I wouldn't want to disable trading in a godwars room since players regularly trade to distribute loot or resources for their trip.
There is no plans to have reduced cost for people with low KC, as hard as bandos slaps there isn't a large learning curve like Zulrah.
I also don't believe every boss needs to have reduced costs, Zulrah is the only exception that I'm primarily guessing is simply because it was free before, but it's quite easy to empathize with since zulrah is a very challenging boss to learn.
big impact on the long-term health of the game and benefits all players
Sigil prices are at an all time high. The ironmen instance had no effect. This is fear-mongering.
That was in relation to GWD instances, not the impact the corp changes had. Sorry it wasn't clear!
Have I ever told you you’re my favorite
I am not sure, have you?
Silly question...For speed kills, i.e "kill vorkath in under 1:10" will a personal best of 1:10 unlock that achievement? Or is it strictly 1:09 required
If a time is specified, you'd need to be under that time
So you admit that there is no data to substantiate your concerns and yet you are being obtuse purely to acquiesce to a vocal portion of the player base that hates the iron game mode?
No of course I don't admit that because it's not my intention at all, it's just a consideration we're taking into account? Sorry if it came across otherwise :(
Great job on the extra clarification, just one question:
"There has been lots of discussion within the community about Combat Achievements being available to all players, even those who intentionally choose to limit their account. Whilst we want it to be available to as many players as possible, some in-game encounters are locked behind requirements that not every account type can access. Naturally, because of this there will be certain tasks that limited account builds will not be able to complete, but where possible we'd like to offer players an alternative option to completing a specific task that would otherwise be impossible. With this in mind, we'd like to propose that account builds with limited Defence levels would be able to fully complete everything up to the Hard tier of Combat Achievements."
You state that limited accounts will be able to complete certain things, but can't you just remove the base combat stat requirement? I myself am a Maxed Zerker with all 99s on combat, except of course attack/prayer/defence and have over 18m slayer exp, multiple thousand killcounts on bosses and can compete just as well as mains on pretty much all bosses, albeit slightly more challenging at times, but that is indeed what we chose for. If tasks wouldn't be locked behind combat stat achievements, I'd provide for a very nice challenge to try and complete master/grandmaster tasks as a limited account pure too?
There is no base combat stat requirement. They're listed in the blog as a "we'd expect a typical player to be at this kind of level" rather than "you have to have these levels to start the tiers".
Limited accounts will still not be able to fully complete all tiers of Combat Achievements purely because of the fact certain bosses have requirements that prevent you from killing them and we can't change that.