Wildy agility course will be botted to hell. It's awful to PK there. They will just have a logout script
"Speaking of risk, our final change is to add more skeletons (alive ones, obviously) around the course to make insta-logging less prevalent." is something we'd be aiming to do as well, would rather add energy restoring mechanics and encourage players to tank up or fight back than just insta-log at every turn.
While you’re looking at the Fountain of Rune, could we get left click recharging of dragon stone jewelry? It’d be a nice little QoL.
For the Wilderness Agility Course, will you move the clue step out of there if those changes are made? Paying 100k to do a single clue step would be kind of awful.
Can pass the first on as a feedback point for sure.
Second point it's worth re-stating that the 100k is intended to be a 'I'd like to opt in to extra reward' fee, it's not required to enter or to just run the course, only to gain the extra bonus loot bits! That being said, I'm sure the team would be open to adjusting the location to make it 'about as risky as it is now' in line with the change at the top of this blog!
Did the misc changes need to be separated in quite such detail? What kind of mad lad is gonna vote "yes more hellhounds" but "no more ice giants"?
I think I just wanted to make stuff as granular as possible for people just in case, appreciate that it adds a few seconds to voting but think it's preferable to do that vs. group questions up too much!
Should we add the Blipblock Scroll, a tradeable item that unlocks the ability to block teleportation attacks from Elder Chaos Druids
Uhh so what ability does this blipblock scroll actually unlock? Is it a new prayer you have to keep running while killing these mobs or is it a permanent slayer unlock?
The blog isn't really clear in this regard...
The blipblop scroll blocks the Elder Chaos Druid's ability to teleport you all over the place, with the potential on the table for it to block the Abyssal Demons' ability to do the same!
Still not going to the wilderness with more than a clue and spade. Nice try.
We'll get you one of these days!
Will PKers be able to tell who opted into the extra loot? Or will they just kill everyone on the off chance that they opted in?
Think it'd be cool to try and add some kind of anim/indicator that somebody's opted in for sure! That being said, people might still do the latter because you genuinely never know when somebody's rolled up with everything without realising - twice this month I've run a wildy clue step with full rune pouches, idiots like me are the reason everybody is a potential target :(
Throw in the chaos elemental while you guys are at it! If blipblop is no more, then blipblop is universal. Otherwise they should call it the 'elder chaos/abby demons teleblock scroll'
Kinda neat, will pass it on to the team!
Wildy course gp/hr is insane, considering how bots can just insta log, this is a huge buff to bot farms, you have to either make logging out not possible 5 seconds after doing an obstacle or add just a shit ton of level 12 skeletons everywhere so you are always in combat, also 2m gp/hr is insane compared to lvl 92 agility sepulchre which is around the same gp/hr, also i think chivalry should be nerfed if it requires no defence level anymore
There's a sentence in the blog around adding more skeletons with the express intent of preventing insta-logging to avoid scenarios like the former. Also worth keeping in mind that the rates in question assume you're wholly uninterrupted, if it's wild enough that it's a no-brainer to do, then there's more activity and your odds of remaining uninterrupted go down - or your loot tolerance decreases and you're less likely to stay on longer trips to really get the most out of it.
I’m a little confused by the agility course
What incentive do people have to PK there? Does the loot in the chest go into your inventory? It’s just builds over time in quantity earned each lap?
Inventory or looting bag most likely yeah, you get more out of it the longer you stay, but your odds of running into a player go up. Similar to stacking loot at Revs for example, it's not uncommon for me to stack up a 1m+ bag before leaving, which is the incentive for a would-be PKer!
I think it's time to start adding a bit extra counter play for those hunted instead of weapons for the hunters, which all Wilderness content really is.
Every single Wilderness content is a bait for people to get Pk'd, and I woulnd't mind vote yes for some of these If the other party would get a bit of love. No way I'm going to vote yes for a tool for pkers to kill my accounts easier. Didn't I decide to be an Ironman and therefore shouldn't I live up with the decision I made? You decided to be a zerker. though luck! Level up that defense if you want to get that prayer.
I think what maybe isn't clear in my original comment is that the odds are still overwhelmingly in your favour if you're a regular main account with Piety/Rigour/Augury vs. a Zerker using Chivalry. If your sole focus is tanking, leaving Augury on and chewing through brews still gives you a huge advantage over a Zerk who might be sporting Chivalry.
Adding to this that at most Wilderness content, owing to the Wilderness level it's in, the majority of the people getting on you are going to be accounts who are already using Piety/Rigour/Augury (unless you're also a really low-level account). I'm not sure this will really prove that impactful for people who only engage with the Wilderness for PvM-y bits as they already have been (revs, WBR)!
Preferable to who?
Certainly not me. One off mechanics are annoying and confusing.
Totally get it, what I'm driving at is to consider then 'is it preferable to blanket a logout delay across the entire Wilderness' which is likely unpopular for other reasons, or 'is it preferable to just not have one at all, and then run into the issues with potential abuse that others have mentioned'. What would you propose - pick one of those two, make an exception, or something else? (Not having a go btw, am genuinely curious, hope that comes through over text!)
Stop trying to fix things not broken. Ruining the charm of the game.
Then vote no!
Did the team consider lowering the prayer requirement of chivalry to line up more accurately with its in game usefulness? Like 57 prayer or something?
I don't think we're interested in adjusting the Prayer requirement at this stage - if you want the extra power then it's still completely justifiable to expect you to earn extra Combat levels.
Can you take a look at bloodvelds in the wilderness? Usually they are just an insta skip since there are only a few of them in the wildy gwd cave.
Can for sure raise it as a feedback point, think the majority of these changes are intended to be 'small stuff that's easy for devs to do to release either alongside or shortly after Undead Pirates'. Adding bloodvelds to the caves would require some Art time to map down an extra room and is a little beyond the scope of what we're aiming for here. Here's hoping they're able to find the time in the future though because it is a pretty 'meh' task, especially considering you can't get Superiors down there :(
Just to clarify because it’s not 100% clear in the blog - will chivalry, obtained through the new scroll, remove the defense requirement?
Yes, if you obtain the scroll as a drop or through trading and use the scroll, you're able to use Chivalry so long as you have 60 Defence Prayer.
Doesn't that apply to restricted account builds then?
Just get a few extra combat lvls and you can get it.
Think that just changes the whole core of those builds though, think the team's thinking is similar to those types of builds being able to use things like Turmoil, Anguish and Torment back in the day if they were willing to gain a bunch of Prayer levels for Curses. Still having to trade-off combat levels and engage with Prayer, but not gated by Defence, and thus still able to enjoy what they enjoy about their restriction (glass cannon, high-pressure).
Can we also get more moss giants with these changes (maybe hill and fire too, but those areas are quite small) - those 3 tasks could be improved and they have a small number of NPCs
More than happy to pass these on as feedback!
Maybe it's just me but constant baiting pvmers and skillers into the wilderness to be loot pinatas for pvpers is just frustrating for everyone except the pker. The wilderness is already stacked with some of the best mid-game bosses, and by far the best gp for slayer. Does it really need to be bis for multiple skilling activities as well?
Why not focus more content on pker vs pker, y'know actual pvp. Imagine something like Gurubashi's arena from wow being added in and having pker's fight for cash/pvp rewards. Put the onus on pker's for once and have some actual fair fights.
Ultimately think a healthy dose of changes to the 'base layer' of Wilderness food chains and more 'separate' PvP a la LMS, PvPA, Clan Wars, Soul Wars, Castle Wars etc. is important. As it stands, not many players interact with any of this content in the first place, spreading stuff out and giving people new options for moneymaking while on one grind or another, while also incentivising some more PKing activity is something that still interests us - PKers are a huge lapsed audience for us and have historically been interested in Wilderness PvP, so it's in our interest to try and win some of them back while also trying to bring some Wilderness methods into 2024 by improving stuff that's not been looked at in a decade.
Would still be very keen to explore more arena-based stuff, mind you. Things like Sarnie's Team Rumble GameJam, or expanding on PvP Arena to incorporate small groups/seasons etc.
Also maybe my hot take of the day but you're only a loot pinata if you let yourself be one, so many PKers let their guard down like crazy and you would be stunned what you can get away with by just bolting people back and bringing Vengeance sacks or a sneaky DDS (or better, if you're not skulled), or how strong you and some pals are if you're at a Wildy boss and willing to anti-PK together. Only speaking on it atm because I've been doing a bunch of Wildy content on my GIM lately and antiing the whole time with other Jmods/friends at Wildy bosses, or antiing at Revs and have had an utter blast - once confidence/comfort improves, the unpredictability and unique interactions you get are second to none for me!
PK activity increases and the rate should balance itself out
Seriously need to re-think the reward structure for the course. Heavily nerf or even remove all $$$ rewards and drastically increase the xp per hour. Pkers will still exist and the course might actually be good even with the constant harassment (like chaos altar prayer training).
As it is now, it's going to be infested with pkers to the point where it's not worth it. And even if they're not killing you, fighting back/switching worlds constantly completely tanks the xp/h.
For wilderness content to be used, it needs to provide an absolute massive benefit to the "prey". The pker needs almost no incentive because they will be there in droves even if their potential rewards are minimal. Again, see chaos altar prayer training. The chaos altar sees tons of pker traffic, despite the fact that their biggest loot potential is like 100k worth of dbones.
As it is now, you're turning the prey into walking loot piñatas with an xp/h that doesn't even come close to compensating for the inevitable lost time. The pker harrassment will be unreal, to the point where it's prob gonna be one of the worst courses in the game for XP gain.
Conversely though - if the course is better XP/hr than Sepulchre, do you not anticipate the total opposite complaint around players feeling forced to go out there in order to engage with it. With XP being the primary reward (rather than just competitive with other options), what incentive is there for anybody to PK there in the first place?
If it's solely to interrupt peoples' Agility gains then sure, but if there's no profit there for PKers to encourage other PKers to come along, you're left untouched getting the crazy XP/hr on a low intensity course, and then whenever somebody does come along it winds up being frustrating because 'I don't even have anything! I'm just training!'. The Chaos Altar is slightly different, because aside from XP/hr it's also half the cost (so your effective 'profit' is whatever the cost of all the bones you can use in an hour is).
By targeting rewards systems towards 'competitive XP/hr, strong GP/hr' the aim is to capture the crowd that doesn't mind the risk, that opt-in to the risk in exchange for the reward by choosing to go for the GP-offering option in the first place, rather than compelling people to go there for XP rates if they don't want to send Sepulchre and then feeling frustrated because they can't get competitive XP rates without being killed.
I want to make it clear that I totally get where you're coming from, but also feel like rewards systems like this also feed into the 'forced into the Wilderness' reasoning that we've been trying to disentangle over the last 2 years or so.
I think you meant 60 prayer? Not defence?
you are very right, that is a crazy typo to have made, ty for spotting
I think what maybe isn't clear in my original comment is that the odds are still overwhelmingly in your favour if you're a regular main account with Piety/Rigour/Augury vs. a Zerker using Chivalry.
Yes, you're right but then again why is the zerker trying to use a zerker to get advantage over a type of player that has piety, If he chose to be a zerker in the first place. Then he should have a specific account in specific brackets to kill the specific people he is hunting. I'll smash a pure If I have defense and defense gear, is that unfair? No. He chose to be a pure.
By that train of logic, We should give Ironmen tons of free stuff since even though we chose to limit ourselves, main's odds are still onverwhelmingly in their favour. They can GE'scape anything that we have to spend hours going through, but let's ignore the fact that I chose to limit myself and give me advantages mains have, I know we're just talking about a prayer that isn't that overpowered, but Why do I have to go through ToB for something as pathethic as Vials of blood to do potions that, aren't even that overpowered, just saves an invent space. I think I got my point.
Honestly, this is the easiest "No" I've voted in a while.
In response to your first paragraph, the point is namely that in PvP Worlds and most Wilderness content then you're not necessarily trying to 'gain an advantage' over somebody using Piety, it's likely your only option. The odds are still overwhelmingly stacked in the favour of somebody with higher defence, better gear, better prayers, but it adjusts those odds slightly to make them feel like less of a foregone conclusion, while also condensing multiple prayers into one to make these builds (which are easier to put together & tend to risk less, making them good jumping off points for newer PKers) easier to pilot.
I'm not really sure I agree with your second paragraph - the game continues to change, evolve and grow by incorporating updates to content, some of these updates serve some portions of the community better than others. I don't think the point around Irons/mains is really the same - if we wanted to keep on that line of argument, 'You knew exactly what content was in the game when you made your account and should never expect anything new'? Iron has gotten a lot easier over the years, it just doesn't feel like a fair example to me, or a fair equivalence.
All that being said - I still totally empathise with and understand your position, it's what conversations and polls like these are for!
If we're going to continue to make the Bandit's camp impossible to not be dogpiled in by Bandits, can we please move Rennard somewhere that is more accessible for those that rolled him there u/JagexGoblin? Right now it's already incredibly hard to talk to him and complete the dialogue. None of the others are nearly this bad, and it sounds like it's going to get worse.
Will make sure the team keep it in mind!
the wildy agility course buff is a great idea! there should be reward shop of cool cosmetic items too and perhaps even some perks while in the wilderness and skilling etc
Also, why not add monsters to lower levels of the wilderness with good drops to attract more people there? For example varrock multi wild, hill giants etc these areas can be revived, (f2p too).
On the point around 'monsters to lower levels' - we're open to it! This is the lowest we've gone in a pretty long time, we could go lower but it's tricky because the risk is extremely low, so it's hard to make things properly rewarding and not underwhelming, unless you just wham them in a cave (which we'd maybe like to try doing a little less of)
Also maybe my hot take of the day but you're only a loot pinata if you let yourself be one
aka get good? :p
It's good to hear it wont all be focused on loot pinata mechanics though.
My biggest gripe has always been how the wildy clashes with ironman playstyles - not getting loot from anti-pking, the greater impact of losing gear etc. I will give it a crack bringing a bit more risk to fight back though as you do make it seem fun. Probably I'm just a bit bitter from being bonked in my monks robes at calvarion so often over the last week :D
Absolutely not 'get good' but more, 'get comfortable'! I'm not good at PvP at all, still regularly get Abyssal Daggers, Staff of the Deads etc. with one or two well-timed Vengeance procs on my GIM, then just use another account to take the key off the GIM and use the money for raid splits!
Similar with our recent wildy boss sessions, 5-10 of us squadded up, all ready to just freeze anybody who comes in, not risking a whole lot, just chatting and having a good time.
Less about 'getting good' imo and more about being willing to engage with what the Wilderness is and leaning into the MMO of it all for me at least. It wasn't intended as shade and I'm sorry if it read that way, but I more meant that if you go into the Wilderness with a mindset of 'I'm just a loot pinata, if somebody gets on me I'll just let myself die' then that cycle's never going to change innit. If the mindset becomes 'People think I'm a loot pinata, if I get better at tanking I might be able to catch somebody off-guard and snag a loot key, or fight back just enough to tank a TB' then it becomes way more dynamic and unlike anything else in the game. Just my $0.02 crab emoji
the rates in question assume you're wholly uninterrupted,
Why are you ignoring the portion of their comment that points out the possibility for bots to instantly log? An interruption for them is mere seconds while they hop.
The first sentence in my reply was addressing the comment around instantly logging, in that it shouldn't really be doable because skeletons should keep people in combat and thus logged in. Moreover, 'This loot embiggens (real word) with every lap you complete without logging out or leaving the area.' means logging/hopping resets your streak and worsens your loot gains for a while while you build them back up. It's more than mere seconds, it sets them back ages if they've already built up a streak.
1v1 MMR based game mode in ferox would be a great way for people to get into NH
This is sort of what Emir's Arena wants to be, but it needs a whole lot of love to get to that vision, other tricky part is making it rewarding enough for people to deem it worth their time (since reward is the primary motivator for near-enough any OSRS player to do anything in OSRS) while also not being so rewarding (or sufficiently ring-fenced) that players aren't incentivised to instead just artificially force certain outcomes. Tricky balance!
What happened to wilderness only clues from the gamejam?
Still in the backlog, just a much bigger project than is feasible to complete alongside the other work - aim of these changes is to fit in alongside Undead Pirates and not overscope heavily!
Also worth keeping in mind that the rates in question assume you're wholly uninterrupted
Do you guys have provisions in mind to prevent a repeat of the multi revs situation? It seems like it would be way too easy for a clan to lock down the area and let players get these uninterrupted rates. And historically, that's led to an increase in RWT.
Is the thinking that it'll be difficult for a clan to do so because the whole area isn't multi? That brings up the question though of how you'll prevent this at the pirates, since those are multi.
I think relative to what multi revs was, nothing in this poll comes anywhere close to that. I'm not sure it'd be worth paying for protection at content where better alternatives exist, coupled with there being more worlds than there were at the time, Agi Course being singles, Undead Pirates being harder to 'control' because it's so open since it's above ground and because it's a low Wilderness level so it's hard for one clan to have the numbers to cover all of the potential brackets in a meaningful way, no uniques on the same 'tier' for desirability as revs weapons (since a lot of the people paying for protection back in the day were Irons looking for the GP and revs uniques).
RWT is a separate issue for ACT to tackle, and they continue to ban buyers and sellers - if protection did pop up and ultimately lead to RWT, I imagine ACT would have a field day tracking stuff down, but from a content perspective I'm not really convinced this is a good fit for protection/symbiotic systems like that!
Any word on pickpocket chance rework
Will be in an upcoming Project Rebalance blog sometime next month, finished writing up Thieving stuff earlier this morning funnily enough!
Maybe some clarity on mechanics within the game? What about an overlay indicator that tells us if there's a wilderness specific mechanic there?
A lot of people are just unaware, and you shouldn't have to look an area up first. It's smart to do, but that should always be reflected in gameplay.
Think it'd be cool to see if we could expand the 'overlay' offerings maybe beyond just 'Wildy Level' and 'Single/Single+/Multi', will see if the team would be willing to have a sit-down and think about feasible components for something like that!
The agility course presents some issues with fighting back though. Agility encourages you to weigh as little as possible. Counter pking requires you to wear armor, bring weapons, and food and potions. I think if you want to make fighting back viable for the non pkers, the wildy agility course will need to ignore weight or provide a significant run energy regeneration bonus.I think it's also worthwhile for you guys to consider what it is about Wilderness PvP that attracted pkers, and find a healthy way to recreate that. If it was just fighting other players, then maybe it would be better to give the PVP Arena more love and find good unique rewards for it. If the part those players liked though was hunting non pkers, you guys need to be really careful how you do it. History has shown the non pkers usually don't like being part of that. Finding a new way to offer that kind of gameplay might be a better approach.
Edit: I'm an idiot, I missed that part in the news post. Thanks for thinking of it preemptively!
"Touching the pillar (or chest!) will also restore your Run Energy, so you can indulge in some heavier gear and fight back against anyone causing trouble – and free up some Inventory slots you would otherwise spend on Stamina Potions!" is in there, because we agree! Would rather give people the freedom to actually gear up to fight back if they'd like, and actively encourage people to actually engage rather than let themselves perish/log (likely not possible).
Agree to some extent that I think it'd be cool to find more of the 'other' stuff that's fun for veteran PKers and encourages newer PKers to get involved. That being said, there very much are still people who enjoy what the Wilderness offers even if they're not PKers, and we have been putting in work to try and decouple some of the longer-standing 'forced' talking points that are far less prevalent these days!
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