devtrackers.gg → Outriders

[2021] PCF: Can we please have an update on the Co-op servers/p2p?


Original Post — Direct link

Hello PCF,

Can you please give us an update on what's going on and how you plan on fixing/improving the co-op servers/p2p?

Now that it appears that the inventory wipe bug is fixed 🤞 and we can finally play in group safely "i know your priority next is to give back peoples lost inventory" Actually playing in group is terrible atm. Especially when you're not the host. Even as the host its not any better but when not the host its extremely bad.

When i matchmake and join a group here are some of the issue i deal with:

1) Major Rubberbanding

2) D-sync

3) Hit registry not working

4) Abilities/Skills not working correctly "especially trickster hunt the pray, venator's knife and time rift"

5) Mods/talents not working in group

6) Getting Randomly one shot and dieing out of no where.

7) Game Crashing or Freezing.

This is just the tip of the major issue i face playing in co-op. Its just not fun but i can see the huge potential and thats what annoys me the most. Spending already almost 250h in outriders and it hasn't seem to got any better in co-op since the demo.

Ive been playing co-op since launch. "even when it was risky" Dint play alot of co-op before the inventory wipe fix but i played enough to compare with how the servers/p2p are today and nothing has changed. I'm still experiencing the same issues at a consistent rate.

We are almost 3 weeks into the games life and while we all know PCF is working hard to fix things, many of us dont have alot of confidence in the servers/p2p getting better for co-op and it would be nice if we can get an update from PCF on this.

I love the game "ALOT" But these p2p servers are really destroying my experience and making it really hard for me to stay positive.

Please give us an update on how you plan on fixing the co-op p2p servers and co-op bugs and when can we expect this to be implemented?

Thank You.

FWIW i play on PC, Steam. 140FPS. My PC specs are 3080FE OC, 10900K OC, 32GB 4000mhz CL15 ram, sata SSD in a Custom watercooled loop. Internet speed is 400down/50up. My hardware isn't the issue.

External link →
over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Edit - THURSDAY: Just a note to say thank you to everyone who has replied here and/or DM'd me with details. I am continuing to gather reports to identify patterns that may be helpful to our team in investigating these issues.

I also want to reiterate that this reply is not us refuting that some players are experiencing problems with co-op. Rather, this reply is intended to explain the kind of information we need in order to better understand and resolve the issues you are facing.

OP below

Thanks for kicking this thread off, I'm really sorry that you're continuing to encounter these frustrations with the co-op connectivity.

As a bit of background for how we've typically dealt with connectivity issues to date:

Whenever I noticed a large number of reports around connectivity issues for the game I immediately checked in with the online team to see if we are encountering any connectivity problems. If they were not already aware (and they are aware most of the time), they then check all our systems and dashboards and either confirm that they are seeing the same issue or ask for additional details, which I then source.

Since we resolved the server issues of the launch week, our metrics indicate no widespread problems that are impacting the entire community. When we look at ping times for multiplayer games, they generally fall into acceptable ranges.

That's not to say there aren't problems - There will definitely be cases where some players are indeed encountering issues and you have quite rightly raised them in this thread after all. And whenever possible, we try to investigate these reports. For the cases where we are able to identify an issues, we can address them in some manner.

Just as a minor example: Thanks to community reports, we discovered during the demo that specifically players in South Africa were encountering bad connectivity in multiplayer, so we added on server capacity in Africa to help those players in particular. Their co-op experience improved thereafter.

However, had we not found out from those users where in the world they were accessing the game from, we would not have been able to identify South Africa as an issue. A South African Twitter user who says "co-op is laggy" but does not state any details, is not providing the information we need in order to help them, especially when according to the metrics we're looking at, the overall connectivity for players appears to be normal.

Since launch we have also made many other improvements to co-op connectivity that will have helped players in certain circumstances.

The key thing, however, is that amongst all the players that are connected online, the numbers of users with individual issues may not be immediately apparent to us when reviewing our metrics simply because of the sheer volume of players we're dealing with.

That's why working with the community is so important - We need to hear from you when things aren't working, but more important, we need a lot of details so that we can reproduce issues on our end. Reproduction in turn can lead to resolution.

So, I'd therefore like to in this thread request the below details if you are encountering specific issues you mentioned - these will help us track down your issues specifically. And if you can think of anything at all that may shed further light on the matter, please do not hesitate to include it.

Major Rubberbanding / D-sync / Hit registry not working

  • Please describe exactly what happens at what point. The more detail the better.
  • Do you only encounter these connectivity issues in game? During login? During matchmaking?
  • Please provide a date and timestamp also including your timezone of the latest instance where you encountered the above
  • What platform are you playing on?
  • What's your username on the platform? (Steam username/PSN ID/Xbox Gamertag etc.)
    • If you'd prefer to keep this private, please DM me the username personally along with a link to the report reply that you leave here.
    • If playing with friends, please provide their usernames privately too.
  • Were you the host or the client during the incident?
    • Note that the host shouldn't ever rubberband, but clients may rubberband based on the host's connectivity
  • What region of the world are you in?
    • Please don't mention exact locations such as streets or post codes, but a rough area such as county and/or country will be helpful.
  • If playing with friends, what region of the world is/are your partner(s) in?
  • Is the rubberbanding in every single multiplayer game where you are the client, even when you connect in random matchmaking?
  • Whats your normal Upload/Download speed?
  • What ISP are you with?
  • Are any other peer-to-peer games that you play with the same friends unaffected by this issue? Note that Destiny is not a peer-to-peer game.

4) Abilities/Skills not working correctly "especially trickster hunt the pray, venator's knife and time rift"

  • I believe these aren't co-op specific and will be patched in future.

5) Mods/talents not working in group

6) Getting Randomly one shot and dieing out of no where.

  • I noticed reports of these last week and attempted to investigate this matter further. However, all users who reported it were unable to precisely explain what was happening or were unable to reproduce it. Many reported that the occurrence of this appears to be "random".
  • All information that I gathered was passed of course passed on for investigation, but random occurrences are incredibly difficult for us to track down. This is why we need as much information as possible with regards to these matters.

7) Game Crashing or Freezing.

  • Our upcoming patch work should continue to look into and address these issues, but again, the more detail we have the better.
  • Platform
  • What exactly where you doing?
  • Are you able to reproduce the crash?
  • If so, what steps do you take to reproduce it?
  • If on PC, please provide your system specs:
    • CPU
    • GPU
    • GPU driver version
    • RAM
    • OS version
over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by doctortofu

"Since we resolved the server issues of the launch week (...)" - no, you haven't. Not even close. Have you seen all the posts by PS5 players stuck in "Signed in!" limbo for example? That is the exact opposite of server issues being resolved! And your twitter just recommends to unplug the console every time! Seriously, that's the "fix" you're satisfied with?!

This is a local caching issue that appears specific to the PS5. The fact that a local fix can resolve this issue does indicate that it's console side rather than server side.

However, it is something we are looking in to, but it is unrelated to rubberbanding so I didn't mention it here.

over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by putetrekk1

" we need a lot of details so that we can reproduce issues on our end. Reproduction in turn can lead to resolution. "

Press the outriders icon on your desktop, click start game. Play a couple of hours of coop with 2 friends. You dont need us to tell you anything, try the coop experience for a few hours and you will figure it out :)

We have hundreds of QA testers testing all aspects of the game. When they encounter issues, they report them.

The issue here is that even those hundreds of testers cannot compare to the huge volume of players and playtime in the wider population, where individual scenarios can impact our game in a way that our testers would never be able to replicate.

This is why I keep asking for details.

over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by angellus

Based on my experience playing online games, I believe the issues that I have seen playing co-op is bad net code. For reference, I have a trickster and my Girlfriend has a technomancer. I can give our GTs via DM if you need it.

  • My girlfriend and I are both on Xbox Series X devices and are on the same network.
    • According to a previous thread this means we should be direct connecting to each other over LAN instead of using a P2P relay.
  • We "see" no connectivity issues. No yellow bar, no red bar, etc.
  • Out network speed is 1000/50. We often average 20-50 ping on speedtests and sub 100ms ping on game servers.
  • When I am the host, everything works great. All of my killing shots proc, all of my damage is consistent, everything works great.
  • When my girlfriend is host, my DPS seems to be mostly consistent (~80% of when I am host), but just about every event becomes inconsistent. I will get a kill and it will not proc a killing shot (ammo not restored to clip/Killing Spree does not seem to be working), Venator's Knife some times seems to do nothing. I do not seem to do nearly the same amount of damage all of the times (sometimes I will shoot an Alpha Perforo and kill it in a single clip, other times a whole clip will only do 5% of the health bar as if most of the shots just miss). It seems like packets are just being ignored/dropped and not triggering the events they should be to make things work as if I was host.

Thanks for the info. As you correctly linked to, your connections should indeed be tunneling to one another. It also very strange to hear that its okay with one host but not the other.

If you are able to dm me your gamer tags along with a date and time+timezone where you were experiencing these packet drops, we may be able to investigate logs.

As a side question - are there any differences at all between your xboxs? Different OS versions? Are any of you part of any xbox beta programs?

Furthermore, How many friends to both of you have on your friends lists?

over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by angellus

It happens when she is the host and I am not. It does not happen when I am the host. So it definitely seems related to me being the client and now the host.

And there are no differences. No Xbox Insiders enrollment or anything. We pretty much exclusively only play with each other since matchmaking is even worse (constant yellow/red bars).

DM'd you more details.

Thank you! Will Check my dms momentarily. Final quick question - are you both on WiFi? Or is one on an ethernet cable?

over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by SirchT

So... basically, if you don't see any direct reports, it doesn't matter?

And if you think lag rate is acceptable, it is? As opposed to the countless different community members claiming differently across the world?

Yeah, keep that $60. Only money you'll ever be getting from me. Laziest, most irresponsible process you can even go about.

So... basically, if you don't see any direct reports, it doesn't matter?

Not at all. All these reports matter, but not all reports are actionable given the information they lack.

By that I mean, and that was the intention of my bigger response here, it's important for us to track down these issues and we want to ensure that everyone does have the best possible experience. We're not pretending that every player is currently having a flawless experience.

But we can't investigate vague reports since we don't know what specifically to be looking at in relation to a specific players report. The more details we get (as requested), the better our ability to actually resolve the specific issues you are facing.

over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by angellus

Nope, both wired. Open NAT. Same VLAN, etc. And it is not my networking hardware either (I work full time as a software engineer with server hobby, I have well beyond "normal" hardware).

Thanks for the extra details - I've bundled everything up and passed it on to the team for investigation! I'll be back if I have any further questions or suggestions.

over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by YipKyAy

I am curious. Are you you trying to suggest the sputtering and lag everyone is experiencing is our connections?

Not as such - I'm saying that the problems you are facing are not present across the entire online population as far as we can tell, bearing in mind that there are hundreds of thousands of players.

That doesn't mean your problems don't exist or that they are your fault, it just means we need more information to specifically address them.

over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by YipKyAy

Well that is a much better answer.

Is outriders completely peer to peer?

The multiplayer component is peer to peer, with a relay server for most connections. However, direct tunneling is enabled for certain platforms where a better ping can be achieved by avoiding the relay.

over 3 years ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by vapoorer

Thank you for responding. Sorry it took me so long to respond myself.

I will gladly give you details only because i actually love your game.

Before i start i want to make something crystal clear. What i say here and below is only for CO-OP and has Nothing to do with playing solo. Understood? When i play solo the game runs flawless 99% of the time. The issues below appear when i am in group co-op ONLY. Usually in trio because its what i get matchmade in the most. Though duo also has the exact same issue too just maybe not as bad as in 3 man. It doesn't matter Who i matchmake with. It can be my sister in the same house or someone across the world/country from me. Co-op is busted.

I took the time to actually make you some videos. I hope you appreciate the effort and actually watch them as it will show you EVERYTHING that is going on in Co-op. "You can also just matchmake yourself and see yourself too". I can garantee you that if you matchmake in co-op you will experience this in some very of degree. None the less here we go:

-In this Video below i upload a complete run. This is your typical co-op experience in 3 man. Give or take. This also shows some of the worst that could happen at times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUzvxojNFkY&ab_channel=VapoorerGames

1) 25sec The Roll glitched out

2) 32sec Alpha lagging all over the place

3) 37sec - 1:10 EXTREME stutters, lag, unable to move, d-sync etc etc "This is the worst"

4) 1:10 trying to enter the circle causing more of number 3. "Note: this isn't limited to just within the circle. i have had this in many parts of the game it just so happen that this time it happened in the circle which is known buggy area more so then other areas"

5) 2:15 more of the above

6) 2:30 Hunt the prey is in this weird slow motion lag feeling

7) 2:37 hunt the prey is in this weird slow motion lag feeling again

8) 3:30 stutters, lag are d-syncing me all around

9) 4:25 hunt the prey lagging and delaying after pressing

10) 4:42 hunt the prey not working

11) 7:41 hunt the prey bug

Just watch the whole video to take it all in.

__________________________________

-Here's a short clip at the end fight on Scorched Lands. Up until this point the run wasn't actually too bad. Other then a couple slow hunt the pray teleports, 1 60FPS drop bug and a couple d-syncing npc all was going good until this point. However, once we got the cut scene that drains the water to allow us to then go down there we all got rekt. Huge lag stutters that made me walk slow and jerk around, NPC bugging out, skills not working etc. just watch it. "Mind you i was trying really hard to get out of this zone but the game kept fighting me and pulling me. The NPC also dint help" and when i finally got out it was just to late. The other 2 players got it just as bad. We where doing just fine up until that point. So for them to die too they had to been experiencing the same thing as me. (If i had to guess something with the water draining caused all these issues on this run in this area) Like i said This is not only limited to this expedition or this area. Ive had this happen to me many time. But in this case it might have something to do with the water. (This is on the worst side of issue)

Side note tangent: Please for the love of god fix that stupid Toxic prompt Hint that constantly pops up when you get acid applied. Or let us disable it or something. It pops up like 4 times in this clip of only 1min 25sec long. errrr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkoU0vIXvN0&ab_channel=VapoorerGames

_________________________________

-Here is an Edit run i did of Chem plant. These where the highlight of the major issues i had during the run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5qDWYhynk4&ab_channel=VapoorerGames

Clip 1: I use hunt the pray and then get stuck in this weird humping animation. Ends at 12sec

Clip 2: Same as Clip 1. I use hunt the pray and get stuck into this hump animation. rolling seems to get me out of it. Ends at 25sec.

Clip 3: at 27sec i use hunt the prey and lag in one place before it TP me. "This happens alot" at 32sec hunt the prey is still on cool down but it does a hunt the prey effect/animation and finaly at 36sec again i use hunt the pray and it lags/delays the Teloport. Ends at 40sec.

Clip 4: 42sec hunt the pray doesnt work and have no idea what its doing. Ends at 45sec

Clip 5: hunt the pray laggy slow motion teleport. Ends at 50sec.

Clip 6: hunt the pray laggy slow motion teleport again

Clip 7: at 1min this cut scenes Drops FPS and is a stutter mess and 9/10 i crash. Ends at 1:17.

Clip 8: More humping animation after Hunt the pray

______________________________

-Another Edit short video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GPQntR8LFg&ab_channel=VapoorerGames

Clip 1: Showing laggy, stutters, d-syncing bouncing all around etc also at 6sec notice the delay in knife throw.

Clip 2: Another Slow hunt the pray Teleport.

Clip 3: Notice broken 60FPS drop bug "I have to hit emote wheel or esc to return my fps to 120fps"

Clip 4: 24sec I get stun lock with lag waiting for my hunt the pray to kick in and teleport me.

Clip 5: 31sec another slow lag hunt the pray teleport

______________________________

-Last short edit video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq90QSMd34I&ab_channel=VapoorerGames

Clip 1: This cut scene and clip i actually crashed. notice FPS drop. I crash bc after the FPS drops it instantly hits my PC with full load 120FPS. In other words it goes from 120FPS down to 10FPS then trys to return back to 120FPS but crashes. "Lowering the cinematic FPS to 60fps doesnt do anything" game still crashes most of the time. The only way to not crash is if i fully tab out of the game while the cut scene is on. Then when the game returns i tab back into the game.

Clip 2: is me just moving around. Notice the stutter jerky d-sync lag.

_____________________________

-Not my Video: I found this video also showing someone getting one-shot when they still had HP left. Oddly enough whenever i did get that random one-shot i too also always had HP left. Sometime almost full HP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNLSEoixi7c&ab_channel=Born2Game

____________________________________________

Some Info About my setup:

Platform: PC/Steam

GPU: 3080 FE

CPU: 10900K

RAM: 4000mhz CL15

Storage: sata SSD

Internet Speed: 500Down/50Up "Cable wire to PC no wireless"

Location: USA East coast

My Actual BEAST PC

I played both on Window borderless and full.

I dont feel comfortable sharing my user name unless its something that will make a huge difference.

Closing:

I hope this is enough info.

Note: i was limited by reddit otherwise i would have wrote more.

Thank you very much for extensive information you've provided here, I really appreciate it and the amount of detail you've gone into by providing the videos. I'm passing them on but I may DM you to ask for your user profile in future in case it will be helpful to look at your logs to identify potential causes.

I completely understand you preferring to not share it at this point in time though, so no worries.

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