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Hello everyone,

I'm starting a gather thread for some issues we've seen post-New Horizon.

I will list the issues I have noticed and heard from others then go into detail. I only use Trickster so I don't know of many specific issues going on with other characters other than what I've read/seen. Please make sure to list them here!

  • Damage mitigation (red screen on character select).
  • Hunt the Prey saying "cant get behind that target" while its in the clear open.
  • Chronosuit set bonus to reload weapon with borrowed time & Hunt the Prey reloading weapon are not working properly. Gun will still do the reload animation anyway, then rounds are lost.
  • Mighty Tank on Devastator not capping the Firepower/Anomaly Power bonus.

Damage Mitigation: At one point before New Horizon, we had a damage mitigation problem. It was easier to tell it was happening if your character select screen flashed red before logging in. It seems that HUMAN enemies are doing more damage than they should. Riflemen, especially, are shredding through shield/armor/health like it's nothing. Mind you, these are the weakest type of enemies in the game. Fighting monsters seems to be normal, but weapon damage from human enemies appears to be out of tune. If you were able to easily solo CT15 prior to New Horizon and find that you can barely get through one at all now, you might be part of this problem.

Hunt the Prey: I've noticed A LOT since starting New Horizon that I can't teleport behind enemies that are in the clear open and have plenty of room behind them. "Can't get behind that target" shows up a lot, another issue that we used to have prior to New Horizon. Another issue with Hunt the Prey is the "Instant Reload" mod allowing you to reload your weapon. If your magazine is empty and you teleport mid-reload animation, the magazine is NOT reloaded, the animation completes, then you lose your rounds.

Borrowed Time: The set bonus for Chronosuit that allows you to refill your weapon when you use Borrowed Time is not working properly. If you use it mid-reload animation to fill your magazine, the reload animation completes anyway and you lose your rounds.

Mighty Tank: The description for Mighty Tank says that the cap is 40% of your Firepower/Anomaly Power. However, this does not appear to be working correctly. Multiple screenshots of builds shown by multiple users have shown Anomaly Power ranging from over 400,000 to even as high as 3 million, even though there are little to no Anomaly Power mods or attributes on gear and firepower well over 10s of millions. See here for info on the abnormal values with Devastator.

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With all of this being said, this leads me to believe, and I could be wrong, that New Horizon was built on a much older version of the game that still had these issues, new things got put in, new bug fixes got put in, but some bug fixes were left out. Given the amount of time that New Horizon was probably in development, this makes sense that some things could be missed. We're human, it happens.

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What the community needs from you guys is to list the issues that you've had SINCE New Horizon came out. If you have any screenshots of abnormal gear stats or videos of where you got folded like a cheap lawnchair when you shouldn't have, etc post them here.

Tagging u/thearcan so he can see that we've started this.

Let's try to keep negativity to a minimum. All of us that are regulars here love this game and want to see it succeed and want to enjoy it as much as we can. So, let's help with some great feedback to have some of these issues, and any others posted here, looked at.

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about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by ipStriderLord

Yeah, mitigation shite is back... despite some of my characters (chars) have never lost that red splash screen, the mitigation issue was gone for long time, when they said it was fixed... but now it seems to be back, mainly from bullets related damage...

I have made some checks and testings, trying to figure out how and from where is this coming, but its hard to know. Anyway, Im almost sure it is mainly coming from bullets damage, not only humans, but also those birds, when they hit you with the bullets attack.

It is like bullet damage is ignoring all protection you can have on...

I made some clips, where you can clearly see this. Using one of my techno AP turrets build, with which is quite hard to die, I run some human and monster expeditions. I'm not shooting in these clips, only using turrets to get the skills leach and compare, not using heals neither.

I can run any expedition without never dying with this build, even without shooting. No Mother, no Crawler, no big monster can kill me. BUT a tiny rifleman or bullet bird, insta kill me with 2 shoots...

You can see some humans/monsters comparison in link below, notice how HP bar goes down insanely when bullets hit me, and not so when no-bullets damage hit me:

humans vs monsters damage dealt 1

humans vs monsters damage dealt 2

Mother vs bullets-Bird

Have all full clips and some other ones in my onedrive, but cannot share links here, feel free to ask me for them.

Good videos, thanks for those. Have shared them with the team.

Edit:

At first glance it seems like melee attacks are not landing, rather than projectiles dealing increased damage?

The brood mother deals no knockback. The small perforo attacks have no flinch or blood spatter.

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Good thread, thanks for this.

I'm keeping an eye on this and am passing tangible details of bugs affecting multiple people (going by amount of upvotes and comments) on to the team.

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by ipStriderLord

Happy to be of some help... we love the game, but we need it to be better and consistent...

Sometimes it could be the case from monsters attack (even humans melee)... but even if they hit me, my HP bar never goes below half, and never get that red splash... have full runs if needed, but cannot share links here...

Couple more interest cases here:

Joining game with almost no HP

Sniper deadly one-shot on tanky devastator

I think what is important to look at here is a some context. None of the below is a dismissal of issues you're trying to raise, but it will be helpful to understand our perspective.

Both Ryder and you mentioned that you have what you believe is a Damage Mitigation bug. However, the examples we've seen from you so far indicate damage consistent with what we'd expect. What we're not expecting to see are things like you not being hit by Melee Attacks.

Put otherwise: You're wondering why you're being damaged so hard by enemies like Riflemen. However, if there is an issue that we can see, its that you're not being damaged by enemies like Monsters.

You stood next to a Brood Mother for 15+ seconds and she didn't damage you at all. Isn't THAT the oddity in your clip?

Having run some internal tests today, we have indeed found cases where Brood Mothers are not doing damage. So that's a bug, but it is beneficial to players.

So, the question may actually be: Are you now (post-NH) experiencing the damage you should always have been getting from Riflemen, but for whatever reason, were not receiving previously?

I'll give you a historical example: Throughout April (first month of launch), players reached CT15 very quickly and were completing the endgame at an unexpectedly fast past. One of the reasons for this was actually because a great many of those players were using broken or bugged mods to make them much more Tanky. Things like Perseverance Shield meant that players were building "Glass Cannons" that were able to survive encounters that no Glass Cannon should have been able to without a great amount of skill by the player.

When we "fixed" the Perseverance Shield bug, those players became a lot more squishy and started dieing en-masse. However, to them it felt like a bug was making them take more damage, even though they were actually taking the level of damage the game had been balanced for and that they should always have been taking. They were simply not properly built for CT15.

Similarly, many "One Shot Kills" were a perceived bug until players understood how Life-Gates and "one shot protection" works in Outriders. Once they did, they were much better able to to understand why they were apparently one-shot under certain circumstances and that they couldn't be constantly taking life-threatening damage without any defensive aspects of their build.

Claims of One Shot Kills drastically reduced when players understood the life-gates but also when they started incorporating defensive mods in their builds.

None of the above means there weren't game side issues - there absolutely were and we have tried to address any we found. An example was how Brood Mothers skills dealt damage (2 hits at the same time which thus circumvented life-gates). However, the example above shows how "Damage Mitigation" as an issue in May was a complex web of "player understanding/expectations" X "changes in the formula" X "bugs".

Now, when we're looking at the issues you're raising, I am keeping a few things in mind:

  • When the damage mitigation problems first occurred, Reddit was aflame with reports of them. It was clear that something had changed that affected everyone so it was easier for us to understand what was happening and what we could do to help. That doesn't appear to be the case here.
  • Nonetheless, last week I tasked the analytics team with looking into whether both new and endgame players are dieing more often or whether their lifespans are shorter since the launch of New Horizon.
    • There has been no difference in mean death counts or lifespans, even when looking on a class by class basis. This, in combination with the lack of widespread outcry, indicates to mean that the wider playerbase is not experiencing damage mitigation issues.
    • So, this leads me to believe that if there are issues, they are only affecting a subset of players, not ALL players. So the important thing to figure out is what the common denominator is. And identify whether its a bug or whether its an intended change/bug-fix that is unexpected to that subset of players (think Perseverance Shield example).
  • There are a few bugs in Outriders that appear(ed) to affect a subset of players, and these bugs are caused by a historical "thing" rather than something currently in the game code. Couple examples below:
    • The Toxic Tutorial Prompt consistently re-appearing and spamming your feed.
      • This only affected Characters created before the Day 1 patch on April 1st was released. Any characters created after April 1st did not encounter this.
    • The New Horizon "Character moving autonomously" bug:
      • This only affected players who upgrade from a very old patch version directly to New Horizon. If you freshly reinstalled Outriders or had kept up to date with all patches, then you were unlikely to encounter the movement bug.
    • As mentioned above, the Damage Mitigation and One-Shot issues experienced earlier this year hit Glass Cannon builds the hardest. Players who were creating tanky builds experienced these issues to a much lesser degree.

As you've shown from your latest linked videos, you did join a game and have very little HP.

Joining with low health.That looks like a clear bug, but is it related to damage mitigation? I'm not sure. It's possibly more related to how you exited a previous session rather than an indication of damage mitigation. Do you remember whether in your last session you died or whether you were at full health when the session ended? For example, I am aware of some mods/gameplay aspects that under certain circumstances trigger their effect after the player has died - so that when you next join a session, those mods might re-trigger (for whatever reason). So, while this is a bug, it is perhaps a different bug rather than damage mitigation related.

For the Sniper Shot to Half-health: Im guessing you probably have 50-60% Damage Reduction and I'll assume you're on CT15 and the Sniper is at level 50. Above CT6 Enemy Snipers inflict Vulnerability with their first shot and it counts on the first shot. So you can add another 25% Sniper damage there.

I tasked the team with looking at your video and, with the info from your video, they calculated that you should have taken around 8936.45 damage after your armor is taken into consideration. So the difference in expected vs. received damage is perhaps around 1k there, so there may well be an issue, but our calculations do not have your full build information so they may be inaccurate. Edit: Taking multiplayer difficulty changes into account as well, our calculations indicate that you should have indeed received around 10k damage.

However, Snipers kick like a mule and they should be taking a chunk of your health. So, there is a good potential that the damage you took from the Sniper is close to the true and expected value. If you weren't taking less than this amount of damage (around 8-10k) previously, then I would put THAT down to being a bug.

If we bring it back to what you're reporting:

  • You were previously taking less damage and now are taking more damage.

However, what still remains to be understood is whether the bug is that you were previously taking less than intended damage (perhaps due to an oddity in your character as per the examples above), rather than the bug being that you're now taking more than intended damage.

I will continue to monitor reports of damage mitigation and I am very happy to be corrected with clear evidence of things not behaving the way they should, but so far indications are that, apart from the monster melee hits not landing, you are now experiencing the intended damage from projectiles.

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by ryderjj89

You bring up some very good points and that makes me wonder that it maybe was very possible that the entire time up until NH that we weren't taking the damage we should have been and could explain why we were able to solo some of the hardest CT15 content with no defensive mods and only 1, or no, health roll.

But also, I read over the patch notes for NH multiple times for different categories so I could get a good grasp on what has been fixed/changed/added and I don't remember seeing anything mentioning that enemy damage is now being applied correctly. Whoever's writing up patch notes is leaving out important parts lol.

Perhaps this is why those of us who are experiencing this "problem" think it's a problem and not something that's actually been corrected. I assume, at least for myself, that if something in the notes stated that human enemies were not doing their intended damage and now are, I would think that is why I'm dying easier than ever before. Especially if this entire time we've been used to running our builds a certain way and now, we can't do anything without making heavy adjustments. Very easy for someone to assume that something might have been broken, rather than be corrected. And animals not doing damage is certainly a player benefitting bug but should be fixed anyway.

Nevertheless, I put on another health roll and Temporal Armor and could solo Frontline on CT15 the first try.

So if this is indeed something that has been "fixed", perhaps the issue to look at going forward is how much damage is actually being done now and make adjustments to those numbers. That's up to the team, of course.

My biggest concern was going and modifying my entire build to survive a "bug" that wouldn't matter how much I stacked into defense because I would just die anyway.

Lastly, Dark Sacrifice is taking more than 50% health and needs to stop before I send my boys in after it. 😂

why we were able to solo some of the hardest CT15 content with no defensive mods and only 1, or no, health roll.

Ah... yes... that should have at least posed a significant challenge. So that sounds like we're looking at the riddles solution here.

I don't remember seeing anything mentioning that enemy damage is now being applied correctly. Whoever's writing up patch notes is leaving out important parts lol.

I'm the one compiling patch notes and discussing fixes with the team and as far as I'm aware, there was no bug or fix noted in our databases that was specific to "human enemies" or "projectiles" being changed. I know this because we were never even aware of such a bug even existing..

However, for every easily understandable bug fix (e.g. "Fixed a bug related to reviving"), there are about an equal number of changes and fixes that are entirely engine or code related and which will not be realized or understandable by players, so its possible that something was changed that might have affected something to cause your experience.

However, what I expect is more likely, is something similar to the subset examples from my earlier reply. My theory is that "something" was present on characters such as yours that was triggered by something that would have been impossible for us to pick up during tests. It might be related to your character(s) being in a very specific state at a point in the past that was only possible during a specific window (which is why a subset of players encountered it, rather than everyone). The NH update build then either removed that issue through a bug fix, or an update (any update) overall was required to reset that state from characters.

As mentioned, that's just a theory but it is something I have seen in the past so its not outside the realms of possibility.

Either way, it sounds like there isn't a widespread problem after all, which is good to hear. I'll keep an eye on things nonetheless.

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by ipStriderLord

Hello hello... sorry for delay in my answer but this week has started a bit crazy at office (some bug-fixes too for our software ;))...

Thanks for your really nice and detailed comment... quite interesting stuffs you mentioned there... lot to think of...

Sorry about the naming of these "issues", as you said they may not be related with mitigation issue. But that one is so famous that anything player find in game is named like that now... lol...

It is really good to know that damage taken now it is higher tho, I have never read about such change either... but if it is intended to be like that, its ok for me, I love challenges.

But anyway, I still think there something "strange" with damage, and still think it is related with whatever that "red-splash" in the lobby screen is. I agree with you there, something is triggering this things, but I have not been able to find what.

I have been making some extra tests, and I almost always take more damage when such "red-splash" is there. I'm just really curious to know why and how it works... lol

For example, check this clip, details in its description. I set these clips private, just for this discussions... let me know if you cannot see them in any case. As you can see there, it seems that I take double damage when splash is there. Not sure exactly what kind of damage, but I have mainly noticed this with humans shooting. Although from some big monsters too, and curiously from Trixes. Could this be related with status damage been "wrongly" applied? I mean, like this splash could be related with "like we are under some status effects"?

As I said, have no explanation for it, but its strange and something not right, imo. That's one of the clearer comparisons I could make, but have notice that in many cases.

Concerning the Mother "not doing damage" to me. That's another thing, and not sure if it is intended or not. But monsters (mainly) get aggro from deployed skills like turrets, so they will sometimes attack them, instead of me. Even if I'm really close to them and my turret, if their attack is directed to my turret, they won't hit me, even if visually it seems to be the case. I think that's why they sometimes hit me and sometimes not, when turrets are deployed. When no turrets, they will always hit me and kill me quite easy. You can see some examples in this clip too. Brief info in the video details.

Also, have noticed that some monsters get really "confused" when taking too much status damage, like toxic or freeze. So at some point they get stuck or sick, I don't know... they just keep doing the aggro/attack animation, but they don't attack... but its quite funny tho... check these clips.

Again, thanks for keeping an eyes on this kind of things, players sometimes bring interesting stuffs. And we would be really happy to help in improving the game for sure.

Regards and good luck...

The vids are unfortunately private - can you change them to unlisted? That way I can look at them as long as I have the link. Thank you very much for the response either way :)

If you're referring to the "red-splash" on login or in the lobby, I do remember that being an issue in the past but which appeared to be very inconsistent and impossible for us to reproduce. It looked like a strange "very character specific" bug.

Either way, I'll check in later again to see if the vids are unlisted!