about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Hello everyone,

Welcome to another Dev News Thursday.

https://preview.redd.it/w3kzy65yh5e71.png?width=2058&format=png&auto=webp&s=0d386d1cda9a73f99f7fb443ec778b398cf72b32

Patch News:

  • The latest patch is still causing us a bit of a headache with regards to a crash on boot issue. These problems are as frustrating for us as they are for you having to wait
    . We really want to get this patch into your hands for you to try out and so that we can progress the follow up patches and improvements, which we are sure you will also greatly appreciate… but we need to temper that desire with a need to ensure that the patch foundation is solid and stable.
  • While we’re not ready to release the patch today, we have geared ourselves up to be ready to go the moment we’ve addressed or mitigated against the current issue. So, while we can't specify an exact release date right now, the release date is essentially: "As soon as the issue is resolved". Which means it could be quite soon or perhaps a little longer.
  • If you're keen to check the patch content, you can do so here.

General News:

  • We’re really looking forward to getting this patch out to you and seeing what kind of fun you can get up to with the new build options!
  • Once this current raft of announced changes have been in play for a short while, we will also be taking a look at the most underused Legendary sets in the game and seeing what we can do to make them more viable.
  • One final note in closing: The delay of a patch such as this does not materially affect any of the work, fixes and QOL improvements we have planned for the future. Those are still coming and will be discussed publicly when we have a proper date for their release.

I’ve also refreshed the list of known issues below with reports we received as of last week.

That’s it for today – a short update, but we didn’t want to leave you without news today!

Ongoing list of currently tracked issues:

Note 1: This is not an exhaustive list of things being worked upon. This is also not a list of patch notes for the next patch. Upcoming patches will address issues that may not be listed here.

Note 2: “Investigated” means that we have been able to successfully reproduce an issue on our dev environment and are currently looking at the root causes of said issue. If we have not yet been able to reproduce a specific issue, it may not be listed here, but that doesn’t mean we’re unaware of it.

  • State of Stadia
    • Stadia still needs to be brought in line with other platforms with regards to fixes, bug resolutions and crossplay support.
    • We are continuing to do this work on aligning all platforms, but do not yet have a definite date for when this will be possible.
    • We appreciate that this work is taking longer than expected and do apologize for this.
  • Stuck at 99% Accolade Progress
    • Issue being investigated - It appears to only be present on accounts that had a character present before or during launch day (April 1st)
    • While our investigation is ongoing, we have manually triggered the missing accolades for the users who previously helped us investigate this matter. We may be able to fix all other affected users via a patch once the issue has been resolved, but will confirm this later on.
  • Matchmaking privacy settings may set themselves to Open without input from the player
    • Issue being investigated and will be resolved in a future patch
  • Xbox problems related to signing in
    • Our latest patch significantly increased Xbox sign in times for the vast majority of players. However, a small number of players appear to be affected by a secondary issue, which can cause them to do "alternative account sign in" workarounds.
    • We are investigating this matter and are in touch with a few affected users to investigate their accounts in order to identify the issue
  • Mods and Resources may be lost
    • This issue appears to be quite rare, making it very hard for us to reproduce it and identify it's cause.
    • For anyone affected by this, we recommend getting in touch with our Square Enix Support Team (sqex.to/support), who now have appropriate tools to be able to grant you specific mods and resources that you may have lost. Our support team will also be able to gather the appropriate information to aid us in our investigation.
  • Sprinting with your Sprint option set to Hold (instead of Toggle) may cause the player character to drift to the side
    • Issue being investigated
  • Entering the drained lake during the third enemy encounter in the Scorched Lands Expedition can cause client players to stutter
    • Issue currently being investigated and will be resolved in a future patch
  • Certain enemies, especially Alphas, may break out of Frozen CC as soon as they are damaged
    • Issue being investigated
  • Game stutters when multiple Crawlers are on screen, in particular during certain Expeditions
    • Issue currently being investigated and will be resolved in a future patch
  • Certain Mods not working (properly or consistently), in particular when you’re the client during multiplayer sessions
    • Issue under review following multiplayer improvements
  • Grand Opening Mod (and other mods) may not activate when a player uses their last magazine
    • Issue currently being investigated and will be resolved in a future patch
  • Using the Tier 3 Armor Mod "Pain Transfer" with either the Tier 2 or the Tier 3 "Damage Link" mod drastically reduces framerate.
    • Issue being investigated
  • Tricksters may be unable to revive others or be revived themselves in Multiplayer if using Borrowed Time in Expeditions
    • Issue being investigated.
  • Technomancers Plague Sower Set does not consistently apply it's bonus.
    • Issue being investigated
  • Technomancer Turrets May fall through the ground
    • Issue being investigated
    • There are a few different causes for this, including map specific areas (Mountain Outpost) as well as circumstance specific (such as aiming too closely at your own feet).
  • Journal entries/pick ups not appearing on secondary characters
    • Issue being reinvestigated
  • “Damage Blocked” Stat on Expeditions results screen occasionally appears inconsistently or abnormally low
    • Issue currently being investigated
  • A cutscene during the "The Mentor" Questline may not trigger, meaning players cannot progress past this point
    • Issue currently being investigated
    • Temporary Workaround: In your lobby, change your story checkpoint to an earlier one, then re-attempt this quest.

Recent Informative Dev Reddit Comments & Threads:

Other Helpful links:

External link →
about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Hello everyone,

Welcome to another Dev News Thursday.

https://preview.redd.it/w3kzy65yh5e71.png?width=2058&format=png&auto=webp&s=0d386d1cda9a73f99f7fb443ec778b398cf72b32

Patch News:

  • The latest patch is still causing us a bit of a headache with regards to a crash on boot issue. These problems are as frustrating for us as they are for you having to wait
    . We really want to get this patch into your hands for you to try out and so that we can progress the follow up patches and improvements, which we are sure you will also greatly appreciate… but we need to temper that desire with a need to ensure that the patch foundation is solid and stable.
  • While we’re not ready to release the patch today, we have geared ourselves up to be ready to go the moment we’ve addressed or mitigated against the current issue. So, while we can't specify an exact release date right now, the release date is essentially: "As soon as the issue is resolved". Which means it could be quite soon or perhaps a little longer.
  • If you're keen to check the patch content, you can do so here.

General News:

  • We’re really looking forward to getting this patch out to you and seeing what kind of fun you can get up to with the new build options!
  • Once this current raft of announced changes have been in play for a short while, we will also be taking a look at the most underused Legendary sets in the game and seeing what we can do to make them more viable.
  • One final note in closing: The delay of a patch such as this does not materially affect any of the work, fixes and QOL improvements we have planned for the future. Those are still coming and will be discussed publicly when we have a proper date for their release.

I’ve also refreshed the list of known issues below with reports we received as of last week.

That’s it for today – a short update, but we didn’t want to leave you without news today!

Ongoing list of currently tracked issues:

Note 1: This is not an exhaustive list of things being worked upon. This is also not a list of patch notes for the next patch. Upcoming patches will address issues that may not be listed here.

Note 2: “Investigated” means that we have been able to successfully reproduce an issue on our dev environment and are currently looking at the root causes of said issue. If we have not yet been able to reproduce a specific issue, it may not be listed here, but that doesn’t mean we’re unaware of it.

  • State of Stadia
    • Stadia still needs to be brought in line with other platforms with regards to fixes, bug resolutions and crossplay support.
    • We are continuing to do this work on aligning all platforms, but do not yet have a definite date for when this will be possible.
    • We appreciate that this work is taking longer than expected and do apologize for this.
  • Stuck at 99% Accolade Progress
    • Issue being investigated - It appears to only be present on accounts that had a character present before or during launch day (April 1st)
    • While our investigation is ongoing, we have manually triggered the missing accolades for the users who previously helped us investigate this matter. We may be able to fix all other affected users via a patch once the issue has been resolved, but will confirm this later on.
  • Matchmaking privacy settings may set themselves to Open without input from the player
    • Issue being investigated and will be resolved in a future patch
  • Xbox problems related to signing in
    • Our latest patch significantly increased Xbox sign in times for the vast majority of players. However, a small number of players appear to be affected by a secondary issue, which can cause them to do "alternative account sign in" workarounds.
    • We are investigating this matter and are in touch with a few affected users to investigate their accounts in order to identify the issue
  • Mods and Resources may be lost
    • This issue appears to be quite rare, making it very hard for us to reproduce it and identify it's cause.
    • For anyone affected by this, we recommend getting in touch with our Square Enix Support Team (sqex.to/support), who now have appropriate tools to be able to grant you specific mods and resources that you may have lost. Our support team will also be able to gather the appropriate information to aid us in our investigation.
  • Sprinting with your Sprint option set to Hold (instead of Toggle) may cause the player character to drift to the side
    • Issue being investigated
  • Entering the drained lake during the third enemy encounter in the Scorched Lands Expedition can cause client players to stutter
    • Issue currently being investigated and will be resolved in a future patch
  • Certain enemies, especially Alphas, may break out of Frozen CC as soon as they are damaged
    • Issue being investigated
  • Game stutters when multiple Crawlers are on screen, in particular during certain Expeditions
    • Issue currently being investigated and will be resolved in a future patch
  • Certain Mods not working (properly or consistently), in particular when you’re the client during multiplayer sessions
    • Issue under review following multiplayer improvements
  • Grand Opening Mod (and other mods) may not activate when a player uses their last magazine
    • Issue currently being investigated and will be resolved in a future patch
  • Using the Tier 3 Armor Mod "Pain Transfer" with either the Tier 2 or the Tier 3 "Damage Link" mod drastically reduces framerate.
    • Issue being investigated
  • Tricksters may be unable to revive others or be revived themselves in Multiplayer if using Borrowed Time in Expeditions
    • Issue being investigated.
  • Technomancers Plague Sower Set does not consistently apply it's bonus.
    • Issue being investigated
  • Technomancer Turrets May fall through the ground
    • Issue being investigated
    • There are a few different causes for this, including map specific areas (Mountain Outpost) as well as circumstance specific (such as aiming too closely at your own feet).
  • Journal entries/pick ups not appearing on secondary characters
    • Issue being reinvestigated
  • “Damage Blocked” Stat on Expeditions results screen occasionally appears inconsistently or abnormally low
    • Issue currently being investigated
  • A cutscene during the "The Mentor" Questline may not trigger, meaning players cannot progress past this point
    • Issue currently being investigated
    • Temporary Workaround: In your lobby, change your story checkpoint to an earlier one, then re-attempt this quest.

Recent Informative Dev Reddit Comments & Threads:

Other Helpful links:

External link →
about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by ryderjj89

Thanks for the update. Rather keep waiting for the patch to be stable so it doesn't cause crashes. Dont know how prevalent they are on console, but don't want platforms mis-aligned either. Guess my testing for Stand Tall's buff will wait. Have a good weekend y'all.

Thank you, you too!

The added difficulty is crossplay - if we were to split-patch, we could run the risk of messing with crossplay (as happened around launch).

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by Deadzors

I wonder if giving Steam user a current iteration of the latest patch via the experimental branch could help gather more info to resolve the current issues/crashes?

It may be a solid middle ground for finding solutions faster while letting the players who are interested the latest updates participate knowing full well that it's experimental and not in it's final bug free form.

It is something we have considered in the past, but one of the tricky aspects would be the question of what backend such an experimental branch calls.

As your save-games are on the backend, playing on an experimental branch could cause confusion between save-game versions, especially if the patches contain different content. And if the experimental branch were a clean slate, it's unclear how many players would bother with it, so it may be more hassle than the data we'd get back.

We also don't want people to have to download an entirely new build to check something like this, only to find that the issue persists.

Finally, as much as we do try to work with the community to help identify issues, we are keenly aware that you shouldn't need to do so. So we are trying our best to make the experience as smooth for players as possible, without expecting you to jump through hoops (sometimes this may be necessary, but we're not taking anything for granted).

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by -Certified-

I'm sure everyone appreciates the transparency but this whole cycle of releasing patches that break something, to then delay the next patch that breaks something else is getting stale really quick, obviously know it's not the CMs fault.

I like the game but it's getting hard to defend these type of practices.

Either way appreciate the transparency Toby. I hope the other fixes and QoL that are in the works make some serious strides.

Stale is a good word.

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by rah295

Glad to hear that QoL improvements are being worked in parallel. Can you comment at all on what is in the pipeline?

Also, just throwing it out there: boss rush mode?!

Glad to hear that QoL improvements are being worked in parallel. Can you comment at all on what is in the pipeline?

I would like to... but the difficulty is that as soon as one thing is mentioned, it's all people will ask for updates on until it releases. And as that work is still being done, a release date is either not yet set in stone (or is still too far out).

Take a general patch as an example - when we announce it, everyone gets very excited about it, but there is then also disappointment if we're not able to deliver it in the very near future, or if it gets delayed. Those feelings are entirely natural.

Furthermore, we want to ensure that most of the outstanding issues are resolved so that discussions around QOL improvements aren't saturated with "what about X issue? Why have you not yet fixed that?" responses.

That's why we're so focused on stabilizing the base experience right now. Only once that is in the place we're happy for it to be in, will the time be right for bigger news.

There is an argument that could be made that announcing QOL improvements now could retain players for longer in the game (I can already see the Steamstats brigade getting their player number screenshots out), but the truth is that only the release of those improvements will bring people back or invite new players to try the game out. And when such a moment occurs, we will of course want it to be as big as possible...small blips of news and patches won't do much to surge the Outriders playerbase. That will take a bigger, more comprehensive update.

Wrapping up though, what the above means is that you will likely see quite short windows between announcing QOL improvements and them going live.

That might not be the answer you were hoping for, but I hope it gives you a little insight on how we see things!

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by Deadzors

You make some fair points about the difficulties and I feel that copying a character's progress from the core game to the experimental branch would be required. Plus the saving of any progress would need to be limited to the experimental branch and players would need to acknowledge that any experimental progress would be loss whenever the branch was updated, thus requiring a new char copy.

However, if it were possible to release a branch with very similar rules/limitations as listed above and that didn't require more development effort than it was worth, then I can say that I would be very interested.

Thank you for understanding, as your suggestion is indeed a good one! I'll keep an eye out for requests for such a PTR-type branch and won't dismiss the idea entirely.

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by -Certified-

Like ive said before Toby, I'm not one to shoot the messanger but as someone who can see the huge potential of the game it's just frustrating to see the current cycle of patches and issues.

I'm sure we will get there in the end and it's frustrating for you as a CM as realistically it's not what you really want to be relaying every Thursday to the remaining playerbase.

Keep going with the transparency, I'd much rather you be honest about it then say nothing at all because it's not what we want to hear.

I appreciate your continued honesty about your feelings around the game, because it keeps us honest as well! :)

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by station4318

Any preview about some of the QOL adjustments coming?

Also any sneak peak thoughts on new content?

One other question, any thoughts on alternative endgame modes in the future outside of “beat the clock”?

Good questions all of them - I've tried to provide an answer here.

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by greggus617

Completey understand that challenge, and maybe this is a lack of comprehension on how cross platform works, but the iterative approach should be something feasible even with cross platform.

The entire project model is designed on small pieces that can be accomplished to build out larger tasks

These are relatively small patches compared to our Day 30 patch.

The issue is that, even with small changes, a full test cycle of the new build will be required. That means multiple days testing and playthroughs of the entire game to ensure nothing has broken.

So, it requires a balance between keeping the patch small and agile, but meaningful enough to warrant the test cycle.

Ideally we'd want to be on a "one patch per week" schedule, but the moment you run into problems such as the current issue, that schedule can be thrown out of whack.

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by three60mafia

I think maybe the right approach is to have 0 expectations. Do what No Man's Sky did - go radio silent for 6 months, and then produce a huge patch that provides massive improvements to the game.

The current population of the Outriders, remaining low as it is, clearly is fine with how the game is at the moment. They'll survive.

Maybe take 2 months of radio silence and come back with a big update that has fixes and improvements. These Thursday apologies are very heartbreaking and do more harm than good.

I discussed this previously here and people seemed to be overwhelmingly in favour of more communication, not less.

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by greggus617

Appreciate the response. If weekly patches are so challenging (reasons stated and others I understand from working tech projects) why hasn't that been re-aligned to bi-weekly or monthly patches?

Would allow further time for adequate dev and testing cycles and having a longer set cadence reduces the player frustration from the expected patch being delayed or not working properly.

The ideal is to do weekly patches, the reality is currently more closer to bi-weekly but the overall plan is to simply get them out when they're ready.

If they're ready sooner, we can release them, but if they're ready later, we'll need to wait a bit.

Our Dev news Thursdays are there to inform you with the latest news, and that involves letting you know what's in the work and what our plans for it are. The alternative is to go radio silent until a patch is ready, but I've mentioned here why that isn't seen as desirable within the community.

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by AtticaBlue

u/thearcan Hey there! Last week you and I talked a bit about a potential bug I was experiencing related to unexpected (and unwanted) weapon switching. I was out of town at the time and couldn't provide in-game details, but I've since returned and logged several examples. They're as follows (all on PC using mouse and keyboard):

Colosseum - T13

• fighting the calloused maulers during last phase; I switch from an Umbra to an AR, punch a mauler and then the AR switches back to the Umbra even though I didn’t switch

Drought Palace - T13

- fighting an ironclad, first stage: I switch from an Umbra to an AR and am about to shoot, but the AR switches back to the Umbra

• fighting mobs, last stage: I'm holding an AR and while shooting calloused maulers when the AR suddenly switches back to the Umbra

Timeworn Spire - T13

• fighting crawlers, last stage; I move to engage a crawler and my weapon switches away from my Umbra to my AR

Archways of Enoch -T12

• fighting Brood Mother, second stage; I switch from AR 1 to AR 2, but before I can fire AR 2, my weapon switches back to AR 1

Colosseum - T12

• fighting perforo mobs, second stage; I switch from AR 1 to AR 2, but before i can fire AR 2, my weapon switches back to AR 1

Colosseum - T11

• fighting brood mother, last stage; I switch from my AR to my shotgun as I approach the brood mother, but my shotgun switches back to my AR. The same thing happens again later during the same fight

This isn't an exhaustive list, but it's representative enough. I can't really determine any set pattern to it other than that it most reliably happens immediately after engaging in the middle of a large mob (for example, if a group of perforos jump me or I Gravity Leap into a clutch of enemies, etc.). But it does occur in almost every match. If it matters, all of these are as Devastator and played solo.

Thanks for the post, I remember us chatting about this! Can you remind me whether you've ever had this happen on other classes (historically)?

What kind of keyboard and mouse do you have? Any extra Razer/Corsair etc. software?

about 2 months ago - /u/thearcan - Direct link

Originally posted by yoshi245

I had a similar bug when I was playing about a month ago (stopped playing now as I'm just waiting on the upcoming patch). It didn't happen all the time, but it did seem like if I do a melee attack, the game toggles to the wrong weapon I am using when playing my blighted rounds Techno.

I too had my weapons on mousewheel up and down to switch, but I decided to just stick them to keybinds and leave the mousewheel alone and have nothing bound to it. Also on PC with obviously mouse and keyboard. I don't use any special software for the keyboard itself despite it being a gskill mechanical one, but I do use software for my MMO mouse though it doesn't have any custom settings specifically on the mousewheel.

Not sure if it's just my mouse or the game itself, but it's extremely sensitive to mousewheel actions. I even set the scroll/mouse wheel speed on the mouse software from what it was at default to the lowest setting but to no effect the issue persisted in game until I decided to unbind weapon switch on the mousewheel bindings.

I too had my weapons on mousewheel up and down to switch, but I decided to just stick them to keybinds and leave the mousewheel alone and have nothing bound to it. Also on PC with obviously mouse and keyboard. I don't use any special software for the keyboard itself despite it being a gskill mechanical one, but I do use software for my MMO mouse though it doesn't have any custom settings specifically on the mousewheel.

Thanks for weighing in as well - did the issue disappear when you switched away from using your mousewheel?

Edit: Noticed you answered it in your last paragraph. Thanks for the info!